Piazzetta Sabrina stove - no ignition

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BillX

New Member
Sep 4, 2016
44
Northern Ontario
(My apologies for repetition of this issue but the site staff wanted me put this into a new thread)

Big thanks to gusto for all the help.

ISSUE: no ignition.

I put the Sabrina through a cold test and it all functioned properly, including the "clicking" during the igniter test. So power is getting to the relay. All other functions work during normal function (combustion fan, room fan, auger, display) so I'm presuming the board is not faulty.

gusto is a big help, and told me about the board access (underneath right panel). There must be some issue between the relay and the igniter so I need to check resistance of those wires and of course the connections.

Hopefully it is a simple matter. A new board costs almost $500.

It would be nice to find a repair manual since the local dealer (and serviceman) has little knowledge of the system.
 
Your dealer should be able to get the service manual through his supplier. Pascal has been to the plant in Italy for training so knows these stoves well.

As to your problem, is the ignitor glowing? You can check to ensure it actually functions with external cord to outlet. Checked around the ignitor to ensure the tube is clear so air can get by (it's not actually the ignitor that lights the pellets but very hot air)? Positioned the ignitor in the same way as original (slight changes in positioning can create failure to ignite ie too far back and not centered) Wiring connected as it should be and secure?Describe the sequence you get when trying to start...

You've done all your required cleaning? If you have an OAK, checked to make sure that it is free of any obstruction?
 
Your dealer should be able to get the service manual through his supplier. Pascal has been to the plant in Italy for training so knows these stoves well.

As to your problem, is the ignitor glowing? You can check to ensure it actually functions with external cord to outlet. Checked around the ignitor to ensure the tube is clear so air can get by (it's not actually the ignitor that lights the pellets but very hot air)? Positioned the ignitor in the same way as original (slight changes in positioning can create failure to ignite ie too far back and not centered) Wiring connected as it should be and secure?Describe the sequence you get when trying to start...

You've done all your required cleaning? If you have an OAK, checked to make sure that it is free of any obstruction?

______________________

Thanks for your reply.

No luck yet through dealers. They think I'm after an instruction manual.

The igniter is not glowing . It should function as I put a new one in, as I was assuming the state of the igniter was the problem in the first place. When I replaced the igniter I cleaned out its chamber with a tube brush. Positioning is determined by the end screw so it should be OK, and the screw was tightened. I do have to check the wiring but I need to get into the board and check the link between relay and igniter. A resistance test should tell me something. The cold test showed relay functioning so I don't expect relay needs to be replaced.

OAK has just been installed so clean. Stove has been completely cleaned along with exhaust pipe.
 
Bill

Pins 4&5 marked ACC on the board bottom , If you planning on using a multimeter (dont use resistance check) you should get 110 Volts on those pins when the stove starts (relay energized) be careful you dont want to do any welding sparks . Its like smoke and mirrors and when you let the smoke out usually does not wwork anymore :)

Later

______________________

Thanks for your reply.

No luck yet through dealers. They think I'm after an instruction manual.

The igniter is not glowing . It should function as I put a new one in, as I was assuming the state of the igniter was the problem in the first place. When I replaced the igniter I cleaned out its chamber with a tube brush. Positioning is determined by the end screw so it should be OK, and the screw was tightened. I do have to check the wiring but I need to get into the board and check the link between relay and igniter. A resistance test should tell me something. The cold test showed relay functioning so I don't expect relay needs to be replaced.

OAK has just been installed so clean. Stove has been completely cleaned along with exhaust pipe.
abe
 
gusto:

Your board test sounds interesting. Haven't opened up the side yet as I'm bogged down in preparing for winter snow (northern ontario), but will let you know what I see and how it tests out.

Thanks greatly for the details.

B



Bill

Pins 4&5 marked ACC on the board bottom , If you planning on using a multimeter (dont use resistance check) you should get 110 Volts on those pins when the stove starts (relay energized) be careful you dont want to do any welding sparks . Its like smoke and mirrors and when you let the smoke out usually does not wwork anymore :)

Later


abe
 
gusto:

Your board test sounds interesting. Haven't opened up the side yet as I'm bogged down in preparing for winter snow (northern ontario), but will let you know what I see and how it tests out.

Thanks greatly for the details.

B
Did you try connecting the old igniter (the one you removed) to the power (110 V ) and see if it works ? Or check for continuity my spare shows 45 Ohms resistance .If you have a board problem the original igniter should still work

Later
 
Yes I will try.

I suppose it's possible to turn the igniter into a manual start, outlet to switch to igniter, and switch it off when pellets flame up.

Hardly code, but at least it would work. Once the sensor reads a temperature rise the program mode goes into normal operation.

B

Did you try connecting the old igniter (the one you removed) to the power (110 V ) and see if it works ? Or check for continuity my spare shows 45 Ohms resistance .If you have a board problem the original igniter should still work

Later
 
Or you can rub two pellets really fast and start a fire (like the good old days) :)
Yes I will try.

I suppose it's possible to turn the igniter into a manual start, outlet to switch to igniter, and switch it off when pellets flame up.

Hardly code, but at least it would work. Once the sensor reads a temperature rise the program mode goes into normal operation.

B
 
Checked the board for connection issues. All connections appeared good. Continuity between board and ignitor good but the ignitor cold test (F5 access code) displayed NO CONN. I inspected the ambient sensor and reinserted it for possibly a better contact. True ambient temp was now seen on display (57°) instead of what appeared before to be a default reading of 32°. A redoing of the cold test had NO CONN removed and test was normal (clicking of relay).

Start up appeared normal with the ignitor now functioning but the auger did not release pellets (although motor was working) starving combustion and ending in a failed ignition. I suspect the auger is jammed and needs to be manually freed.
 
Checked the board for connection issues. All connections appeared good. Continuity between board and ignitor good but the ignitor cold test (F5 access code) displayed NO CONN. I inspected the ambient sensor and reinserted it for possibly a better contact. True ambient temp was now seen on display (57°) instead of what appeared before to be a default reading of 32°. A redoing of the cold test had NO CONN removed and test was normal (clicking of relay).

Start up appeared normal with the ignitor now functioning but the auger did not release pellets (although motor was working) starving combustion and ending in a failed ignition. I suspect the auger is jammed and needs to be manually freed.
OK
Now you have the side cover off the stove , you should visually see the igniter glowing red (yes or no) and you should visually see the auger motor turning , if you have the auger jammed you should hear the auger motor working extra hard (loud humming noise)

Later
 
Yes igniter is now glowing. When auger motor was heard only a bit of dust (no pellets) came down chute. This created a few sparks but of course the combustion was quickly fuel starved. I didn't visually check auger before reassembly but it functioned before. Not sure how to unjam an auger but I'll remove pellets and see if the jam up is accessible from hopper.

OK
Now you have the side cover off the stove , you should visually see the igniter glowing red (yes or no) and you should visually see the auger motor turning , if you have the auger jammed you should hear the auger motor working extra hard (loud humming noise)

Later
 
Yes igniter is now glowing. When auger motor was heard only a bit of dust (no pellets) came down chute. This created a few sparks but of course the combustion was quickly fuel starved. I didn't visually check auger before reassembly but it functioned before. Not sure how to unjam an auger but I'll remove pellets and see if the jam up is accessible from hopper.
Best bet is to remove the cover (left side) the auger motor has about a good inch play side to side if it is jammed you can fell it .Try a cold test on the auger motor and check the sound first . Did you start with an empty hopper?

Later
 
Will do. Hopper was half full, above red sensor.

Much appreciated. If failure is imminent my last gasp is a book called "exorcism for dummies".

Cheers.


Best bet is to remove the cover (left side) the auger motor has about a good inch play side to side if it is jammed you can fell it .Try a cold test on the auger motor and check the sound first . Did you start with an empty hopper?

Later
 
Will do. Hopper was half full, above red sensor.

Much appreciated. If failure is imminent my last gasp is a book called "exorcism for dummies".

Cheers.
Try the cold test first run it for a bit and see what happens

Later
 
Could try taking a small mirror to look up the pellet shute to auger... some have had a minor jamb that they were able to dislodge from the bottom with a coat hanger or similar. Good idea to make sure everything is shut down or unplug.

Could be pellet variety ... I used to have troubles with Trebio bridging over the auger flight. I was coming home to a cold stove with half the hopper full. Had to use a dowel to stir the pellets to fill the void. You could visibly see the pellets settle in the hopper.
 
I put the Sabrina through another cold test and all was fine. I used Lake Girl's idea of a hangar to free up the blockage in the auger, and then started the system up.

This time the auger did release pellets but the igniter failed to activate, so there is an intermittent problem with the igniter. As well the auger seemed to jam up and stopped releasing pellets after a few minutes of successful operation. I will have to check this again by opening the left side as gusto suggested.

Since the conductivity between the board and igniter is good it's quite possibly a problem with the board itself. I will test the igniter separately, although it is new. I don't want to replace the board (very expensive) without knowing if that is the problem, and there is no way for me to test that on my own. If the igniter proves in working order, I will bypass the board and attach the igniter directly to an outlet with a switch.

Hopefully the system will not detect this and shut itself down.
 
I put the Sabrina through another cold test and all was fine. I used Lake Girl's idea of a hangar to free up the blockage in the auger, and then started the system up.

This time the auger did release pellets but the igniter failed to activate, so there is an intermittent problem with the igniter. As well the auger seemed to jam up and stopped releasing pellets after a few minutes of successful operation. I will have to check this again by opening the left side as gusto suggested.

Since the conductivity between the board and igniter is good it's quite possibly a problem with the board itself. I will test the igniter separately, although it is new. I don't want to replace the board (very expensive) without knowing if that is the problem, and there is no way for me to test that on my own. If the igniter proves in working order, I will bypass the board and attach the igniter directly to an outlet with a switch.

Hopefully the system will not detect this and shut itself down.

Did the auger motor quit or you had a jam ? If you have a jam in the auger you will hear the motor really working hard .

So you press the ON button (you hear a loud click I think thats the IGNITER relay)you get CONTROL on the display, after a few seconds you hear the smoke fan and auger operating ( PHASE 1) and after a short period no more auger or igniter did you get an alarm on the display ??. Or the stove continued on and shut down due to NO LIGHTING ??

Later
 
Hi gusto;

Yes I got CONTROL, with combustion fan and auger motor coming on and then PHASE 1. Igniter never came (my last attempt at starting system) but auger continued throughout, although pellets stopped dropping after a period with the motor continuing (That's why I thought it's a jam). But the auger motor never sounded laboured. There was no alarm on the display but eventually NO LIGHTING and then came the sound alarm. I shut it down and it went into CLEANING GRATE mode.

Just to add, I don't remember a click as I started up, but cold test clicked. And igniter did work the last start up. I will try again and listen for a click on start up, but at the same time get a visual on the auger with left side open (as you suggested) after inspecting for a jam in my next start up attempt.

If I solve the auger I think I can bypass the board and directly plug in the igniter, as long as it can take a direct line from the outlet, and as long as the board does not activate a safety shut down due to zero conductivity with igniter.

Right now I've got so many other duties before the snow I'm trying to fit this in when I came, hence the gaps in my reporting.

Really appreciate you sticking with this.
 
Hi gusto;

Yes I got CONTROL, with combustion fan and auger motor coming on and then PHASE 1. Igniter never came (my last attempt at starting system) but auger continued throughout, although pellets stopped dropping after a period with the motor continuing (That's why I thought it's a jam). But the auger motor never sounded laboured. There was no alarm on the display but eventually NO LIGHTING and then came the sound alarm. I shut it down and it went into CLEANING GRATE mode.

Just to add, I don't remember a click as I started up, but cold test clicked. And igniter did work the last start up. I will try again and listen for a click on start up, but at the same time get a visual on the auger with left side open (as you suggested) after inspecting for a jam in my next start up attempt.

If I solve the auger I think I can bypass the board and directly plug in the igniter, as long as it can take a direct line from the outlet, and as long as the board does not activate a safety shut down due to zero conductivity with igniter.

Right now I've got so many other duties before the snow I'm trying to fit this in when I came, hence the gaps in my reporting.

Really appreciate you sticking with this.[/QUOTE
No problem

Another thing we can try is a factory reset of the stove and see if it solves the igniter problem

Later
 
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