Pizza... anyone?

[pcampbell]

I have been thinking hard about opening a small pizza restaurant with a wood burning oven. I have never worked with a wood burning oven but what I really like is the idea that it can get real hot which makes a very unique crust. I know that gas pizza ovens run about 125k BTU and you can expect these to be on for 11 hours a day, although may not necessarily be burning gas the entire time. For sake of math, let's say 100k BTU * 10 hours = 1 million BTUs.
Does anyone know what the best type of wood to be burning would be, and if one could make a rough equivalent as to how much wood would need to be burned. I don't know if you can assume same amount of energy requirements from gas to wood (I would guess you'd burn more wood but I am not sure). Even at 2 million BTu a day this is only roughly a cord every 10 days?

 

[webbie]

OK, before you go too much further, a couple things....

Spend a LOT of time on this site:
http://www.pizzatherapy.com/bestpizz.htm

Take a ride if possible to New Haven and try both Pepes and Sallys. So the NYC tour (yes, they have one) of the best pizza places...mostly in Brooklyn.

Go to Trenton to the:
http://www.delorenzostomatopies.com/

Oh, they have a new fancy place too........

If you really have the time, visit the VT Flatbread places which have full primitive ovens in the middle of the stores.

There are as many ways to make pizza as you can imagine, but from what I understand two things are of utmost importance for the best. The oven must be hot - ideally much hotter than most pizza ovens, say 700 to 900 degrees. The best pizzas are cooked in COAL ovens because of the heat and mass. They cook in about three minutes. Anything which takes much longer is not really "the best".

The ingredients are, of course, the other big thing!

Many places, especially chains, use stone and brick ovens that are fired with GAS, but also put some wood in them for show and flavor. I have found that the VT Flatbread is very good because the flavor of the wood smoke ends up entering the cheese! I am not certain exactly which woods they use, but others can probably answer AND you can both look and ask in their (and others) wood burning restaurants.

As far as the amount of wood burned, it will be a lot in most of these cases...BUT, NJ is near coal country so that may be an option also. That is cheap fuel.

That's my little input.

 

[mikeathens]

Knowing a lot about the regulatory side of things...with coal or wood, you would be looking a air permits, and probably stack testing at every permit renewal, at least for particualtes, possibly VOC emissions. Also, you would likely pay an annual fee for air emissions. Factor that into the cost of the pizza, and maybe way too much hassle and cost.

Edit: in case you say "what about gas", small "deminimus" NG fired equipment is typically exempted.

 

[webbie]

Exactly, Mike - the local gourmet pizza place here cannot in any way install the required hot over (coal wood)....

So it is important to make sure the municipality is friendly, etc. - I know there is an annual Pizza trade show somewhere - it might pay to attend and see if the manufacturers are coming up with solutions (pre-fab ovens, etc.)

 

[Mike Wilson]

You cook pizza in a coal oven. Period.

-- MW

 

[Henz]

Charcoal is cheap, and much more even

 

[pcampbell]

I just missed the trade show in NYC. Have not been to Pepes or Sallys but I have been to Luzo's, Grimaldi's, Patsy's, Bianco in Phoenix and American Flatbread is my favorite. I had not thought of all of the regulatory concerns. I know we have some people in town, I think burning coal.

 

[burntime]

Hey Mike, you've been Elked

 

[JayD]

Pizza ovens, and good pizza info site http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/board,51.0.html and this is were I order all my ingredients I love a good home made pie http://www.pennmac.com/page/27 Build an oven in your backyard http://www.fornobravo.com/pompeii_oven/pompeii_oven.html

 

[nshif]

Some good info here

http://heatkit.com/html/bakeoven.htm

and here

http://www.fornobravo.com

 

[argus66]

guy by me in bradley beach nj i belive fires pizza oven with wood.

 

[mainemac]

PIZZA

I live in Portland Me and Flatbreads Pizza I thought was the best

I just went to a party at a buddys houes. He had gone down to New Haven and learned about cooking in brick ovens.

He had one installed at his house, lined with ceramic I think then with brick. This is huge in his garage.

He used wood (plentiful here) and indeed the pies were done in minutes, sensational really good.

He cooks his Tgiving and Xmass Fowl in there as well.

I see him once a week if you would like me to pump him for more information.

Tom

 

[Mike Wilson]

Hey Mike, you've been Elked

Pffffft... you've got it all backwards my friend... Elk's been Miked!

-- MW

 

[Metal]

I would suggest getting a job working at the best pizza place you can find for a while to "learn the trade" before going off on your own. You will learn all the tricks and you might be surprised how "not easy" it is to make a perfect pie.

 

[michaelthomas]

PIZZA

I live in Portland Me and Flatbreads Pizza I thought was the best

I just went to a party at a buddys houes. He had gone down to New Haven and learned about cooking in brick ovens.

He had one installed at his house, lined with ceramic I think then with brick. This is huge in his garage.

He used wood (plentiful here) and indeed the pies were done in minutes, sensational really good.

He cooks his Tgiving and Xmass Fowl in there as well.

I see him once a week if you would like me to pump him for more information.

Tom

You live in Portland Maine? I live in Scarborough and love flatbread pizza! I used to work at Macaroni grill back in the saving for a house days and we used apple wood in the pizza stove.

 

[MainePellethead]

PIZZA

I live in Portland Me and Flatbreads Pizza I thought was the best

I just went to a party at a buddys houes. He had gone down to New Haven and learned about cooking in brick ovens.

He had one installed at his house, lined with ceramic I think then with brick. This is huge in his garage.

He used wood (plentiful here) and indeed the pies were done in minutes, sensational really good.

He cooks his Tgiving and Xmass Fowl in there as well.

I see him once a week if you would like me to pump him for more information.

Tom

You live in Portland Maine? I live in Scarborough and love flatbread pizza! I used to work at Macaroni grill back in the saving for a house days and we used apple wood in the pizza stove.

I live in the Kennebunk area and their building a huge Ricettas(much bigger than the portland one)....I believe they use Apple Wood as well.

 

[webbie]

For you home bakers with a grill, this guy made a few parts from sheet metal and has a bottom and top stone - and gets 750 degrees plus....looks like good stuff.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5541.0.html

 

[mainemac]

I am in Cape, so we have all of Southern shore covered Cape Scarboro Kennebunk, just need a York OOB and Kittery woodburner to get us to NH!

 

[adrpga498]

guy by me in bradley beach nj i belive fires pizza oven with wood.

Argus, would that be "Vic's" pizza?

 

[moondoggy]

ah pizza, I eat it 5-6 days a week.. for like the past 11 yrs.... ummm.
dont eat meat, fish or birds....... only pizza and pasta for me!

coloseau in port jeff new york.. listed on that web site!

 

[pcampbell]

I am a frequenter over at pizzamaking.com as well as a few other pizza forums (pmq.com/tt is where many pizzeria owner operators go). I have been experimenting for a few years now with the dough and am pretty happy with the results, but REAL pizza oven will change all of that for the better. I use only what I consider the best flour I can get my hands on which I believe is King Arthur... no bleach, no bromate. Sea salt, filtered municipal water. I have not decided whether or not I will use yeast or a naturally leavened dough. The crust that I desire I believe requires a good 700 degrees. I haven't gotten a chance to check around the laws about burning wood or coal. It sure does look like it's a lot of work if nothing else than to be able to figure out how to regulate the temperature. I budgeted about $1000 a month for utils and I think running a gas oven for 12 hours a day at 125k BTU an hour, it would be able $600 a month although commercial rates per therm may be higher. But it is not all about the money. An oven that only does 550 F is not going to do what I want. In reality, all of this is a LONG ways away if ever. But you never know...

 

[KWillets]

Has anybody tried scraping back the coals in a regular firebrick-lined woodstove, and cooking directly on the bottom of the firebox? It seems about the right temperature range, and wood-fired ovens amount to about the same thing. I'm planning to try it when we get our little Century installed.

You can also just cook directly on a barbecue grill. The trick is to brown one side of the dough, then flip it and apply (thin) toppings.

Ditto on Pepe's.

 

[njtuna]

pcampbell, not sure where in northern nj you are, but in Ridgewood there is a pizza restaurant called "A Mano" that has 2 brick ovens. they cook with wood. it is fantastic. as authentic as you can get over here in the states. the ovens, utnesils, dishes, countertops, anything you can imagine were shipped over from italy. and he makes the pizza with flour shipped from italy. take a trip there and ask for roberto. he is the owner and master pizza maker. i am sure he would be happy to speak with you. http://www.tommyeats.com/tommyeats/2007/01/a_mano_ridgewoo.html i have spoken to him many times (we have been there a lot). they cook with maple, cherry, oak. not sure where they get their supply from. good luck. i really want to put a brick oven in my yard at some point. not just for pizza, but lasagna, macaroni, stuffed peppers...and more!

 

[berlin]

with the btu's typical of the oven you would be burning, (usually less than 1 million-1million 5 hundred) the state will require no air permits or nonsense like that, so that's not really an issue. regulating a coal fire is not terribly difficult once you learn how to do it, it's also the "right" way to cook a pie and will cost you less than commercial nat. gas.

 

[Jay H]

Hey, for a great wood burning pizza place about 2 hours from Northern NJ, check out Brios in "downtown" phoenicia, NY, best pizza place in the catskills for sure and a great pizza place anywhere... And while you're there, go for a hike!

Jay