Potentially getting new insert. How to handle heat transfer to rest of house.

[PaulCT]

I'm in a late 60's center-hall colonial. The house is approx 3000 sq ft; however that includes a sunroom and guestroom above the garage that I'm not too worried about heating. The main house is approx 2200 sq ft. I currently have a 1980 vintage Upland 207 installed in a fireplace located at the far end of the first floor. The room it's in is 13x22 with the fireplace in the center of the long wall. The only door to the room (besides doors to the sunroom) is a single door directly opposite the fireplace.

Last season, I used the stove fairly regularly, and saw a decent reduction in oil usage, 10-15%, but I'm looking to improve things. The stove does a really good job of heating the room it's in, if the door is closed, it gets uncomfortably warm when I use a fan to blow air around the back of the unit. The room adjacent gets some heat, but I don't get much at the far side of the house or upstairs.

My goal is to improve the heating to the second floor, particularly at night. Directly above the room with the fireplace is attic space that shares a sidewall with two bedrooms. I was planning on installing transfer grilles into the ceiling, and duct it to registers in the two bedrooms via the attic space. Does anyone have recomendations on a ducted fan that is not very loud? How many CFM would be required? I was thinking something like the Aireshare systems by Tjernlund (only 75 cfm), or potentially a pair of ultra quiet bathroom exhaust fans with the output ducted to the registers upstairs (90-110 cfm each). Has anyone tried such a solution?

Finally, after that long winded post: We're considering upgrading the old stove with a modern insert. The old stove has a 2.3 cu ft firebox. We were thinking about replacing it with something like a Osburn 1600 insert (1.9cu ft). Should we see a significant increase in heat output? We'd also like to do it for safety reasons, as the current install is only a partial chimney liner, is a 1980 stove, and doesn't appear to be the best install.

 

[begreen]

Welcome Paul. Can you post a sketch of the first floor plan? There may be another way to help distribute heat. Is there a ceiling fan in the fireplace room?

Before deciding on the insert, measure up the firebox. You may want to go up a size. This will not necessarily mean more heat, you control that by the amount of fuel and air supplied to the fire. But it would mean longer burn times. A picture of the current setup would be helpful too.

 

[PaulCT]

 

[PaulCT]

Pics pending mod approval. Firebox dimension:
Depth at top 16.5
Depth at bottom: 20
Width (Front): 41
Width (Back): 32.5
Height: 27.5
Hearth extension: 24

 

[begreen]

Do you have a table, small box or directional floor fan? Here is a trick for distributing the heat. It works quite well assuming that there is a line of sight path between the cooler area and the stove room. The idea is to blow the cooler air down at floor level, toward the stove. For more even heat in the house put a table or box fan in the kitchen within sight of the stove room, placed on the floor, pointing toward the woodstove room. Run it on low speed. It will blow the cooler air down low, toward the woodstove. The denser cool air will be replaced with lighter warm air from the stove room. Running this way you should notice at least a 5F increase in the room temp after about 30 minutes running. And the stove room temp should drop by a corresponding 5+ degrees.

This actually works pretty well and should allow a larger insert without concern of overheating the stove room. I would consider the Osburn 2000 and the Enviro Kodiak 1700.

 

[PaulCT]

Do you have a table, small box or directional floor fan? Here is a trick for distributing the heat. It works quite well assuming that there is a line of sight path between the cooler area and the stove room. The idea is to blow the cooler air down at floor level, toward the stove. For more even heat in the house put a table or box fan in the kitchen within sight of the stove room, placed on the floor, pointing toward the woodstove room. Run it on low speed. It will blow the cooler air down low, toward the woodstove. The denser cool air will be replaced with lighter warm air from the stove room. Running this way you should notice at least a 5F increase in the room temp after about 30 minutes running. And the stove room temp should drop by a corresponding 5+ degrees.

This actually works pretty well and should allow a larger insert without concern of overheating the stove room. I would consider the Osburn 2000 and the Enviro Kodiak 1700.

Great, thanks for the tips; I'll check out the Kodiak. I thought the Osburn 2000 stuck out a bit far for my wife's liking. What are your thoughts about getting heat up to the 2nd floor at night?

 

[begreen]

The more a stove sticks out into the room the less dependent it is on the blower for delivering good heat. This can be important if power outages happen in your area during the winter.

I am not a big fan of cutting openings between floors, especially a bedroom. The longer fire and smoke can be delayed the better the chance of escape. I would try the fan trick first. That will warm up the kitchen area which will allow more heat to convect up the stairs.

 

[PaulCT]

We have a generator for the power outtages . Thanks for the help.

 

[prezes13]

Also your burning habits are important. My insert is a bit oversized for my house but I ran it only when I was home not too many over 24 burns. I think I cut my oil usage by 65-75 percent. I didn't have a lot of wood and what I had wasn't seasoned properly. What I am trying to say is if you run your stove 24/7 you most likely will cut your oil usage by much higher margin. I think you should look for an insert with as big fire box as you can. Mine has 2.2 cf and I am heating top floor of a raised ranch a half of the square footage you have. Look for something with a 3cf fire box. Maybe a lopi or Avalon?

 

[PaulCT]

I was burning basically all weekend, and then most weeknights. My wife doesn't like to tend to the stove, and doesn't want to leave it going if she goes out during the day. It definitely made a dent when I was using it. Would love to get more out of it, as I used 800 gallons of oil last year; down from 900 year prior.

 

[begreen]

You might want to look at the Blaze King Princess insert if you want to have a fire going untended while you are at work. It is a catalytic insert with very long burn times. With the thermostatic control you should be able to load in the morning and once the cat is engaged and thermostat set, not touch it again until the evening. In milder weather you may only need to reload once a day.

 

[prezes13]

Last years winter was much more harsh than the one before so you probably saved more than you think you did. I think if you did run your stove 24/7 and didn't let the house cool off too much you would lower your oil consumption. And definitely check the princess out.

 

[PaulCT]

That BK looks like a nice stove. A bit beyond what we're looking to spend right now. We're looking at the 2k range right now. Should we expect greater heat output for the new insert vs the 30yr old one that we have? I understand that the new ones will send more of the heat into the home vs up the flue, using less wood for the same amount of heat. i.e. how much extra (if any) should we be saving by getting the new stove?

When burning all weekend and 3-4 weeknights, we increased the k-factor for our oil furnace from 6 to just north of 7.

 

[prezes13]

You will be using less wood that's for sure. Heat output mostly depends on the size of a fire box. Kind of "there is no replacement for displacement" if you are into cars. Catalyst in a wood stove is like a turbo in a car. I see you live in ct. Deans stove and spa is one of the biggest stove shops around. May not be the cheapest but they carry a lot of different makes and models. Worth checking out.

 

[PaulCT]

I think we've settled in on the Osburn 2000. I'll be ordering it soon online. Out the door price would be about 2300 including 6" liner + insulation. Our mantle and surround is bit big for the surrounds that Osburn provides, so I was thinking about having a local metal shop fabricate a surround and a heat shield, since my surround is too close for clearance at the top. Can anyone that has this stove tell me the clearance between the insert and the surround? It looks to be about 1 inch at the top and 1/2 inch at the sides? Could you send me the dimensions of the opening?

 

[PaulCT]

The new Osburn 2000 is installed, and inspected. I've tried using the fan blowing across the floor, and it did help move heat into the kitchen and ajoining dining room. However, little is making it's way up the stairs. It wasn't clear in my diagram, but the opening of the stairwell is on the far side of the kitchen door, right where the arrow is pointing. I spoke with my inspector when he was checking out the install and he had no issues with my plan to duct up through the attic and into the upstairs bedroom. However, rather then blowing heat into the 2nd floor, my plan is to blow cool air from a low register (with fire damper) on the 2nd floor into a ceiling register in the stove room using a 6" duct and in-line fan. I'm hoping this will help create a nice convection loop to the 2nd floor. My question is, how many CFM do you think will be necessary? I'm looking at the Panasonic whiperline fans, most likely the 120 or 240 CFM models.

 

[seabert]

Do you have a table, small box or directional floor fan? Here is a trick for distributing the heat. It works quite well assuming that there is a line of sight path between the cooler area and the stove room. The idea is to blow the cooler air down at floor level, toward the stove. For more even heat in the house put a table or box fan in the kitchen within sight of the stove room, placed on the floor, pointing toward the woodstove room. Run it on low speed. It will blow the cooler air down low, toward the woodstove. The denser cool air will be replaced with lighter warm air from the stove room. Running this way you should notice at least a 5F increase in the room temp after about 30 minutes running. And the stove room temp should drop by a corresponding 5+ degrees.

This actually works pretty well and should allow a larger insert without concern of overheating the stove room. I would consider the Osburn 2000 and the Enviro Kodiak 1700.

I really like the fan idea. I have a Makita 18V battery operated fan. I can put it anywhere. I am thinking of getting a couple more of them and move the air around my 2 story 3500sqft colonial. My den is 12" lower than the rest if the first floor and is where the insert is located. I also have floor(radiant heat throughout the house). Does anyone else have radiant floors and if so can you share some thoughts on how that affects operation of a wood stove/insert?