Power Costs

[stmar]

This is a bit off topic but reading a post someone mentioned that their electric bill was $900 for a month I thought my sister in Florida had a big bill at $450 a month and that was summer with a large house and AC units going most of the time. What are some of the electric bills around the country? I spend the following:
Electric = $50 - $70 per month depending on the season, we are on a water well and have a garden
Propane = $500 per year, about 300 gallons; central heat, gas dryer and cook stove, and we have a 1000 gallon tank
Pellets = $500 per year, 2 pallets, I think this saves me more than 300 gallons of propane.
Just curious and if this is not appropriate for this site you can delete this post.

 

[mr47930]

We have electric EVERYTHING. Our 3200 sq ft house electric bills this summer averages ~$180. We have dual heat pumps and AC units so that helps keep the costs down. Last winter I almost threw up when i opened the $650 electric bill. Granted it was a rough winter but still hard to shell out the cash. Hence why we bought a pellet stove this summer. I plan on saving some $$ this winter in electric bills and also plan on the house being a comfortable ~70F instead of the 63F that we were keeping it at with the electric.

 

[TimfromMA]

My rough numbers:

electric: $75 - $100 per month
heating oil: 300 gallons per year = $970 as of last fill
pellets: 3 1/2 tons per year = $1200 based on recent pellet purchases

 

[stmar]

We have electric EVERYTHING. Our 3200 sq ft house electric bills this summer averages ~$180. We have dual heat pumps and AC units so that helps keep the costs down. Last winter I almost threw up when i opened the $650 electric bill. Granted it was a rough winter but still hard to shell out the cash. Hence why we bought a pellet stove this summer. I plan on saving some $$ this winter in electric bills and also plan on the house being a comfortable ~70F instead of the 63F that we were keeping it at with the electric.

That reminds me of an incident about 30 years ago. Bought a house that was all electric baseboard heat. Winter came and we wanted to see how "efficient" it was so kept the heat comfortable; bill came and it was very very reasonable, next month also very very reasonable, same all winter. In the spring I get a call from the power company, they had been "estimating" my bill because they could not get out there to read the meter, then when they did read it they thought it was wrong, etc, etc. etc. Long story short I owed them over $500 and that was big bucks back then. That was my impetus to get into the pellet burner club and have been burning them ever since.

 

[BrotherBart]

Moving to the Inglenook where it is more appropriate for discussion.

 

[peakbagger]

In some areas in the west power was so cheap that many of the homes weren't insulated. When I first moved to northern NH I rented an apartment in an old building. I kept the heat at 50 degrees during the day and heated one room to 65 degree in the evening. My winter power bills were $200 20 years ago. The landlord switched it to oil after I moved out and the heating contractor ran out of room to hang baseboard.

 

[Chimney Smoke]

I've only been in my current house for a year but here's my estimates:
Electric - around $60/month on average - a little lower in the spring and a little higher in summer with the bedroom AC running
Oil - for heat and hot water over 12 months we burned about 400 gallons so probably $1300
Wood - Last year purchased 3 cord $660, this year it's all from my own land or scrounged and we'll be burning more so the oil will go down a bit.

 

[yrock87]

In my 2000 sqft 5 star 10 year old 3 bed home, I spend around $100 on electric. And mind you we are light users. 350 kwh vs 750 average last month . (20.5 cents per kwh)

Water(plus sewer) was nearly $100 at a 2200 gallons last month.

Oil is $4 a gallon delivered. I have not owned this house for a winter yet but the previous owners used 1800 Gallons for each of the last few years. So about $7200.

I just got my P-43 and spent $2400 on 8 tons and hope that will drop my oil bill down to about $2500.

Even Internet is expensive here at $89 for 200GB at 12 MBs.

 

[DAKSY]

Electric averages $60/month.
Oil - budget plan - $40/month for 10 months for DHW
Pellets - up to 10 tons - $2600 for 6/months = $433/month
LP - showers, fireplace & FPI $150/month
about $5524/year.
Adding radiant flooring next month, so the oil bill may jump for a while,
but I also have plans to add a pellet boiler into the system to knock
the oil bill back down...

Oooo! 5000 posts!

 

[jharkin]

The numbers alone I think dont do much for comparison. Also helps to know usage and cost/unit - plus the size of the house and household.

Here:
Family of 4
1400 sq foot house built in the 18th century. Upgraded with insulation but nowhere near modern levels (maybe an effective R10 in the walls and R20 to R30 in the roof)
Gas/steam heat, gas indirect hot water, gas cooking range, electric dryer.
window ACs
woodstove that we supplement with for heat on weekends

My costs:


Gas:

• we pay around $1 to $1.20 per them with delivery charges averaged year round. Cost of gas is a little higher in winter and the delivery charges are tiered and decrease with use.
• We burn about 25-30 therm a month for DHW and cooking year round. Add to that about 450-650 therm over the winter months for heat (depending on how cold and how much wood supplement).
• Bills thus run about $35 in summer and peak around $180 in Jan/Feb.

Wood - We burn 1-2 cords a year. Some I have to buy some I scrounge. Ive averaged around 200-250 for the wood I had to buy but Im getting more and more of it free now.

Electric:

• We pay about $0.18 / kWh
• We use about 600-700KWh/month in winter and 800-1200 a month in summer depenidng on AC and dehumidifier load. the big hog is the basement dehumidifier at 300KWh a month, and that cant be eliminated without a massive reconstruction of hte old stone basement.
• Bills thus run $100-120 in winter up to as much as $180 in summer.

I went and totaled the bills for Jan-Dec 2013:

electric: $1750
gas: $1100
wood: $250
Total $3100

 

[stmar]

We use about 500 KWh per month and are on a co-op; well, water heater and AC (had the AC on 2 times this year!!) are on grid power with capability of putting the well on alternative if the apocalypse happens. Our house is about 2000 sf, very well insulated and tight, that is why we only use about 300 gallons of propane even though the central heat, clothes dryer and cook stove use gas. A well insulated house is also why we use less than 2 pallets of pellets per year.

 

[bassJAM]

I've got an 1800 sq-ft ranch built in 1987. Electric bill stays flat around $160 all year, but I like to get the house cold in the summer at night, and in the winter I heat 100% with wood (around 3 cords) once the daytime temps drop into the 50's, only running the HVAC fan to circulate the heat. Seems I use about 1300 kWh a month.

It's interesting to look back on the usage history, I only used around 800-900 kWh/month back when I was single. I guess the TV being on more, with more hot showers and laundry/dryer usage adds that up. And I can't stop my wife from turning EVERY SINGLE LIGHT ON in the house the second she gets home!

I also see electric costs have gone up quite a bit. December of 2012 I used the same amount of electricity as last month, but my bill was only $130 compared to $162. I'm curious what will happen once the coal electricity plants are shut down by me by the EPA.

 

[Ashful]

I won't post my usage numbers here, for fear jebatty's head will explode, but we pay about $.168/kWh for our electric. Woodgeek tells me I can do better (locally), but that's where we stand.

I fell, buck, haul, and split most of my own wood, so that's free. However, I did buy 4 cords (small supplement) of rounds this year at $75 - $100 / cord.

Here's a summary of the fuels I'm currently using:

Cord wood: avg. $25/cord ?
Electric: $0.168/kWh
Oil: $3.24/gal
Propane: $2.05/gal

I would be happy if we could get our energy costs down to 3x jharkin's.

 

[jharkin]

I would be happy if we could get our energy costs down to 3x jharkin's.

And the scary thing I get nag letters from NStar monthly telling me I rank something like 90 out of 100 for most energy consumption of households my size.

Sure a lot of it for you and I is due to the age of our homes.... But still I look at some of the low usage numbers posted around here and wonder how the heck do they do it? No kids? Reading by candle? using a clothesline? throw out the TV?

 

[Ashful]

On heating, I'm right there with you. On electric usage, I know exactly where mine is going, everytime I walk into an unoccupied room and see a dozen lights and TV left on.

 

[yrock87]

And the scary thing I get nag letters from NStar monthly telling me I rank something like 90 out of 100 for most energy consumption of households my size.

Sure a lot of it for you and I is due to the age of our homes.... But still I look at some of the low usage numbers posted around here and wonder how the heck do they do it? No kids? Reading by candle? using a clothesline? throw out the TV?

I spent the money to convert all of my lights to LED. around 90% anyways, the rest are CLF. I am trying to find some leds for the appliances. i know it is silly to spend $20 to change out 3x 40 watt bulbs in my fridge, but i hate the idea of wasting 120 watts each time I open the dang thing up! i realized how much those lights draw when the fridge was accidently left cracked open last year and the yoghurt on the top shelf by the light was hot to the touch! nothing else spoiled except for that yoghurt!

lights are a huge draw, i converted 40 lights to LED. if the average incondecent used 60 watts, and i left each one on for 2 hours each day, that is 4.8 kwh per day! times 30 days and you are using 150 kwh a month on just lights. with LEDs at 8watts, i am using just .8 kwh a day, totaling 24 kwh a month. not a small decrease. and since the LED are supposed to last 10-20 years, opposed to 1-2, i consider the price difference negligable.

the cheapest watt is the one you never have to buy!

 

[jharkin]

I already converted 95% of the house to CFL and LED. As of this year over half is LED in fact. I only have 2 incans left in an exterior motion sensor flood. A couple years ago I started with all the can lights in the kitchen/dinging and got 3 of the Philips L prize bulbs to replace the most used reading lights in the living rooms. Added a bunch more of those philips 11w LEDs this year.

We have a very small house. Not a lot of light fixtures to start with and our average daily use is 4x15w LED can lights in the kitchen for a couple hours at breakfast and dinner, then in the evening there are 3-5 table lamps with 11w LED bulbs on till we all go to bed around 1030pm. If I work in the shop there is a couple more hours that 6 or 8 LED fixtures are on. All told Id be suprised if Im using more than ~ 25KWh/month for lighting. I think the network cabinet with the Verizon fiber optic terminal & wifi router and the cabletv boxes that never truly turn off eat more power than the lights do.

Our problems are
- The dehumidifier
- Kids watch waaaay to much TV
- laundry

I'm starting to go around the house with the kill-a-watt to find out whats really sucking the juice. Im afraid to hook it up to the TV

 

[Ashful]

It costs a certain amount of money to operate our utilities, and I'm talking more about indirect costs (administration, billing, etc.) than direct cost. Cut mass consumption, and you'll see rates rise correspondingly. Please don't do that to me.

 

[bassJAM]

What do you guys who are using LED's think about the light output? Growing up with the warm glow of incandescents, the CFL's seemed a little odd at first. But now my house is 100% CFL except for 2 motion flood lights outside that are LED. And those suckers are blindingly bright!

I'm not sure if it's worth the cost to change out to LED's, I don't think they are a whole lot more efficient than CFL's, at least when compared to an incandescent bulb. Although if they really get the long life they're claiming it might be worth it. No matter what they say about the life of a CFL bulb, it seems they last 2-3 years at best.

 

[yrock87]

What do you guys who are using LED's think about the light output? Growing up with the warm glow of incandescents, the CFL's seemed a little odd at first. But now my house is 100% CFL except for 2 motion flood lights outside that are LED. And those suckers are blindingly bright!

I'm not sure if it's worth the cost to change out to LED's, I don't think they are a whole lot more efficient than CFL's, at least when compared to an incandescent bulb. Although if they really get the long life they're claiming it might be worth it. No matter what they say about the life of a CFL bulb, it seems they last 2-3 years at best.

part of the problem with CFL is that all florecents hate to cycle. the average life spane estimates are for turning the lights on once a day, and off once a day. so if you have cfl in your bathroom that a family of 4 uses 20 times a day for 3 minutes, it will kill the CFL well before it's stated service life. LEDs suposedly do not have that problem.

 

[Ashful]

Just repeating what I've heard repeating here many times, not speaking from personal experience, but the oft-repeated advice is to wait for your CFL's to burn out and then replace them with LED's. The cost analysis I've seen hasn't supported swapping out functional CFL's for LED's, due to the small incremental change in operating cost.

 

[yrock87]

Just repeating what I've heard repeating here many times, not speaking from personal experience, but the oft-repeated advice is to wait for your CFL's to burn out and then replace them with LED's. The cost analysis I've seen hasn't supported swapping out functional CFL's for LED's, due to the small incremental change in operating cost.

i have heard this as well. i was in the unfortunate position of moving into a rental last year that had ALL incondecents. so i now consider my light bulbs as i do any other household good. something to bring with me when i move. i bought my house this summer and had 90% of the LED bulbs i needed to swap out all of the incandecents in the new house! at $10-15 for a 60 watt LED, it is silly to leave it for the next guy!

 

[stmar]

I think conservation is the only way to save much, we are not in control of the rate increases and the war on coal is just now ramping up. I am in a co-op, we are the stock holders, and even we are faced with mounting costs not in our control. I have CFLs, alternative, solar, battery bank and we try not to waste. 500 KWh is about the best we can do. I guess I could turn off the computer but then I would not be able to communicate with you good people, lol.
CFLs did take some getting use to but now they seem normal.

 

[jharkin]

What do you guys who are using LED's think about the light output? Growing up with the warm glow of incandescents, the CFL's seemed a little odd at first. But now my house is 100% CFL except for 2 motion flood lights outside that are LED. And those suckers are blindingly bright!

The new generation of LEDs are fantastic. Light quality is much better than CFL, clost to incan if you get the good ones.

I did a little write up when I got my first L-prize lamps to see if I liked LED. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/philips-l-prize-lamp.101671/
I now also have a lot of the current design phillips A19 LED that replaced it... cheaper, but not as good in terms of lumens and CRI. But still better than a CFL to my eyes.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised if you stick to good brands - Philips, Cree, Lighting Science.

I'm not sure if it's worth the cost to change out to LED's, I don't think they are a whole lot more efficient than CFL's, at least when compared to an incandescent bulb. Although if they really get the long life they're claiming it might be worth it. No matter what they say about the life of a CFL bulb, it seems they last 2-3 years at best.

Just repeating what I've heard repeating here many times, not speaking from personal experience, but the oft-repeated advice is to wait for your CFL's to burn out and then replace them with LED's. The cost analysis I've seen hasn't supported swapping out functional CFL's for LED's, due to the small incremental change in operating cost.

True, the current LEDs dont have that much of an edge on CFLs but like a lot of folks my CFLs where burning out far short of their rated life. That plus dealing with the warmup time and poor light was enough to make it worth the investment IMHO.

 

[begreen]

Like early CFLs I am finding new LED bulbs a mixed bag. The light quality varies from nice to ghastly and the court is out still on their actual, in-use lifespan. I have been having good luck with the latest generation of CFLs. The light is warmer and the lifespan is good. We only have these bulbs in areas where the lights stay on for hours, so 15 seconds of warmup time is a non-issue. In the house we also have 6 LED bulbs including 2 new floods from GE purchased a few days ago. The new GE's have an unnatural light. They're supposed to be 2700K but are not what I would call warm white. They may end up in the garage where no one cares about the light quality. We do have a couple Feit LED floods in the kitchen that have a much better quality of light. The bulbs have been dated and we'll see how well they last. If they are truly long life then the CFLs will (eventually) be phased out there.