Power Failure was a wake up call

[Mushroom Man]

An ice storm a week ago caused a power outage in 3 stages. First the power went out for 5 hours. It came on for an hour then went out for 4 more and then came on for half an hour then out again for 3 hours.

I was poorly prepared but not helpless. The boiler was full for each of the 3 outages. It "coasted" with no draft and supplied a heat source. I have a 1200 watt (surge) / 1000 watt continuous crappy gas generator that worked to circulate the hot water created by the boiler. I sent heat to the barn and the house plenum. I tried to get the fan on the furnace to run but it kept tripping the breaker on the genset. So the heat sent to the plenum was only heating with radiant heat from the lines.

Oh, did I mention that my daughter and mate were visiting with their 3 month old. She got worried when the temps dipped to 19C

The temperatures only dropped in the house to normal (from the scorching levels that my daughter thinks she needs for her new boy) but the event pointed out some serious issues with my setup.

First I wanted to run the boiler controller but didn't because I feared I might fry it with a non sine wave power source. In truth I don't know what the genset might have done as I was unwilling to risk testing it in real-time. Tempted though! How can I test the output of the genset to assess its appropriateness for the controller?

Next I wanted to run the furnace fan but it kept tripping the breaker in the genset. It must be a huge starting load to trip the genset breaker with no other things plugged-in. How huge is the startup power requirement? The nameplate says 1/3 hp, but it also says 5.4 A (and sfa 6.4). If I calculate correctly 5.4 (amps)*115(volts) =621 watts which exceeds 1/3 hp by a lot. I thought my little genset would have adequate power to start a 1/3 hp motor (241 watts).

Third, using a genset takes gas and there was only 6 gallons without siphoning from the vehicles. Good thing it was a short outage. I started researching gasification generators, wind generators and solar panels. The ice storm would have rendered the solar and wind temporarily sidelined.

I've got some research work to do and then some prepping for next-time. It is inevitable, there will be a next-time

 

[__dan]

The best gas generators are the inverter type, Yamaha and Honda.

 

[Singed Eyebrows]

An ice storm a week ago caused a power outage in 3 stages. First the power went out for 5 hours. It came on for an hour then went out for 4 more and then came on for half an hour then out again for 3 hours.

I was poorly prepared but not helpless. The boiler was full for each of the 3 outages. It "coasted" with no draft and supplied a heat source. I have a 1200 watt (surge) / 1000 watt continuous crappy gas generator that worked to circulate the hot water created by the boiler. I sent heat to the barn and the house plenum. I tried to get the fan on the furnace to run but it kept tripping the breaker on the genset. So the heat sent to the plenum was only heating with radiant heat from the lines.

Oh, did I mention that my daughter and mate were visiting with their 3 month old. She got worried when the temps dipped to 19C

The temperatures only dropped in the house to normal (from the scorching levels that my daughter thinks she needs for her new boy) but the event pointed out some serious issues with my setup.

First I wanted to run the boiler controller but didn't because I feared I might fry it with a non sine wave power source. In truth I don't know what the genset might have done as I was unwilling to risk testing it in real-time. Tempted though! How can I test the output of the genset to assess its appropriateness for the controller?

Next I wanted to run the furnace fan but it kept tripping the breaker in the genset. It must be a huge starting load to trip the genset breaker with no other things plugged-in. How huge is the startup power requirement? The nameplate says 1/3 hp, but it also says 5.4 A (and sfa 6.4). If I calculate correctly 5.4 (amps)*115(volts) =621 watts which exceeds 1/3 hp by a lot. I thought my little genset would have adequate power to start a 1/3 hp motor (241 watts).

Third, using a genset takes gas and there was only 6 gallons without siphoning from the vehicles. Good thing it was a short outage. I started researching gasification generators, wind generators and solar panels. The ice storm would have rendered the solar and wind temporarily sidelined.

I've got some research work to do and then some prepping for next-time. It is inevitable, there will be a next-time

There is a website that shows the sine waves of generators. Hopefully you can find it with a Google search, Randy

 

[maple1]

If you are quite sure you will always be there, sounds like a generator upgrade would be the simplest. I would think a 2000w Invertor would do it, and they're fairly easy on gas. Should handle all that.

If there's a good chance you might not be there, sounds like you'll have to get into a battery bank/inverter setup.

 

[goosegunner]

I have considered buying a Honda 2000 inverter generator.

I recently saw a Generac that runs on 20 pound lp bottles. I have a 500 gallon lp tank so I could actually have a gas line hook up on house. I would think the lp generator would be more reliable as far as a fuel stand point and you would not have to worry about keeping gas on hand that will go bad before you need it.

gg

 

[maple1]

I have considered buying a Honda 2000 inverter generator.

I recently saw a Generac that runs on 20 pound lp bottles. I have a 500 gallon lp tank so I could actually have a gas line hook up on house. I would think the lp generator would be more reliable as far as a fuel stand point and you would not have to worry about keeping gas on hand that will go bad before you need it.

gg

That's a good point. There are also small diesel gen sets out there - not sure about how clean their power is, but they could likely be set up to run off a heating oil tank. Pretty sure I've seen threads on other forums on here about that.

 

[goosegunner]

I have considered buying a Honda 2000 inverter generator.

I recently saw a Generac that runs on 20 pound lp bottles. I have a 500 gallon lp tank so I could actually have a gas line hook up on house. I would think the lp generator would be more reliable as far as a fuel stand point and you would not have to worry about keeping gas on hand that will go bad before you need it.

gg

That's a good point. There are also small diesel gen sets out there - not sure about how clean their power is, but they could likely be set up to run off a heating oil tank. Pretty sure I've seen threads on other forums on here about that.

One thing I didn't like about the Lp Generac was that it seem kind of cumbersome. It had wheels but overall it was kind of large. I think it was $700 and 3250 watts.

The little Hondas are supposed to supply really clean power and are very portable. I could use it for other things like bowfishing at night.

I have seen Yamaha generators that also run on Lp.

gg

 

[HeatFarmer]

After my own experience with a power outage the other day...and the fact that usually when we have an outage means that I have to leave the farm in the worst possible instances...I re-began researching a diesel generator. These things are dang expensive, but I really think they are the way to go..... LP might be a possibility, but again expensive for what you gain.

I managed to use a 2000w inverter to keep my boiler circ-ing, but had to power it from my truck, as all my "spare" batteries didn't have enough juice.... So I spent some time the other night researching. I'd seen a lot of generators which looked interesting, but none quite fit the bill as far as pure sine wave assurance until I spotted this site: http://www.emergencypower.com/products/portable-diesel-generators/agi6500de (I am not associated in any way, etc...) Poking around the various models there are some great options here as far as adjustable power based on what you are using.

I'm pretty sure to run the basics in my house I need more than 6.5kw, but this one would sure get me on the way to worry free heat.....

 

[thecontrolguy]

First I wanted to run the boiler controller but didn't because I feared I might fry it with a non sine wave power source. In truth I don't know what the genset might have done as I was unwilling to risk testing it in real-time. Tempted though! How can I test the output of the genset to assess its appropriateness for the controller?

Next I wanted to run the furnace fan but it kept tripping the breaker in the genset. It must be a huge starting load to trip the genset breaker with no other things plugged-in. How huge is the startup power requirement? The nameplate says 1/3 hp, but it also says 5.4 A (and sfa 6.4). If I calculate correctly 5.4 (amps)*115(volts) =621 watts which exceeds 1/3 hp by a lot. I thought my little genset would have adequate power to start a 1/3 hp motor (241 watts).

It is likely that if you unplug ALL loads from the genset, and then start your furnace blower, then plug the pumps back in you might get away with it. The kicker is the surge that the blower motor takes at startup. The surge can be up to 3x full-load amps. Next, it is unlikely you system is running at F.L.A so it seems a simple test to see if a structured start-up of all your loads would be supported by the genset.

Also, I have found that most gensets have a pretty good sine-wave output under no-load conditions. Where they experience trouble is during startup of inductive loads (like your furnace blower) and combined loads that are complex in nature. I have a number of UPS's that support my freezers and have trouble with my 7.5 KVA generator not regulating output voltage well enough to keep the UPS's from swiching on/off causing oscillation in the genset output as the loads go up / down. Oh well, at least it runs the furnace and I then have options for wood or oil heat. Good luck

/Edit Oops, I re-read and see that you already tried it. You might then also check and see if your furnace has a multi-speed fan motor and try to start it in the 'cooling' speed which is usually slower. There may also be a third speed that is for continuous circulation mode that may be even slower. They are selected by low-voltage jumpers on the control board where the thermostat wiring hooks up. You could also mount extra switches for the purpose of over-riding the t-stat but you shouldn't leave it on slow speed if there is a call for heat from the oil or gas in the furnace as the heat exchanger could overheat.

 

[Clarkbug]

I personally think that these are the way go to:

http://www.generatorsales.com/vegetable-oil-generators.asp

Not cheap by any means, but I just like old engines. Low RPM, will burn veggie or diesel, hand crank so never need to worry about batteries, and you could probably even just dump the heat to some fin tube or even your hot water storage tank if you could put this in the same place as your boiler/storage.

 

[hobbyheater]

I've got some research work to do and then some prepping for next-time. It is inevitable, there will be a next-time

I use a Honda EU 2000 inverter generator for back-up. The Jetstream Boiler uses a two stage vacuum cleaner motor for a blower that draws 7.5 amps and the two circulator draw 1.1 and 1.0 amps. With this load, the generator does not go to full rpm.

First picture is the system on aux power.
Second picture is the system on house power.
Third picture is the Honda plugged in for aux power.

Outlet box 1 is power from Honda.
Outlet box 2 is house power for thermostats and house circulator.
Outlet box 3 is house power for boiler blower and boiler to storage tank circulator.

It's ugly but a simple set up, with no possibility of back feeding power onto the grid.