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Price Check on Jotul Kennebec Insert

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by daninohio, Jun 3, 2006.

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  1. daninohio

    daninohio New Member

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    I've been reading the forum for years now.

    We finally got a local Jotul dealer last year so I went and took a look today.

    I am interested in the Jotul Kennebec insert. The price would be:

    $2,244 Insert
    $65 Mantle Shield
    $830 Chimney Liner (about 30')
    $135 Sleeve, Cap, Top Plate
    $600 Install
    $99 Sweep job

    So, it would come to about $4,000 before tax. Does this seem reasonable?

    Because of clearances and appearance and other factors, the Jotul insert seems to be the best choice for me.

    Thanks in advance for any feedback.

    Dan

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  2. Nokoni

    Nokoni New Member

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    I had a stove installed in Ohio last fall. My stove price was different, different Jotul, but I paid about 2,000 for the liner, install, and all other aspects other than the stove. What part of Ohio are you in? I'm in Cincinnati.
  3. Shane

    Shane Minister of Fire

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    Doesn't seem unreasonable. Of course about 50 people are about to tell you you're getting ripped off on your liner. IMO it is a fair price. The only thing I would question is the 99 sweep. I include that in my install price and my install price is lower than that but that's just due to geographical difference I believe.
  4. MountainStoveGuy

    MountainStoveGuy Minister of Fire

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    Boulder County
    sugested list which you can find on the internet.
    kennebec 1999 matte/2299 enamel
    manlte shield 65
    liner and install seem in line, 30' is a hell of a run. i think your getting a fair deal.
  5. daninohio

    daninohio New Member

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    Thanks for the quick responses!

    Nikoni -- I am in Cincinnati too. Did you go through V.F. for your Jotul? If so, if you could send me an e-mail or PM and let me know how everything went with them, I would appreciate it.

    MSG -- I forgot to mention that the insert price they quoted also included the optional blower. So, it looks like they are quoting list prices for the insert and blower.

    I think it would be worth it (economically and comfort-wise), but it's hard to wrap my mind around spending about the same as half of a car on a stove and liner . . .
  6. Mike Wilson

    Mike Wilson New Member

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    The price for the Kennebec is fair, I paid 2200 for mine, with blower, and 250 for the installation, which took them less than 2 hours when you include the liner. Stove installation itself took 45 minutes.

    I am part of that 50% that will say you are being ripped off.... nay, *****, on the price of the liner. First off, the liner comes complete with the "Sleeve, Cap, & Top plate." So you are paying 965 for a liner kit, which is obscene. There's another thread around here where you can get a perfectly good liner, complete, for 350 bucks. The 600 you are paying for installation should be more than enough to cover the installation of that liner. Beware these stove installation guys, many of them charge exhorbitant prices for liners and use the typical scare tactics to convince you to pay up... "oh I use the 'best/safest' liner, not that 'other junk' that will cause your home to burn down" ... I advise you to look here:

    Chimney Liners

    Good luck...

    -- Mike
  7. bodeen

    bodeen Member

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    I just purchased a Kennebec and that price is what I paid for mine with blower. I'm with Mike on the liner. I bought my UL. listed cheap liner that is not as good as what everybody else sells off Ebay. I am installing myself though. If you are not entertaining installing it yourself then I belive that install price to be good deal. MSG has a great point about that 30' run.


    Bodeen
  8. MountainStoveGuy

    MountainStoveGuy Minister of Fire

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    Retail on a high quality liner, with insulation and armor mesh, top plate and cap, is roughly $30/foot. Any one can find something cheaper out there on ebay. Installers wont usually install a cheap liner that someone had bought of the internet. Its not a crime for installers to make money. Installers should not be required to sell there products at cost and just sell you labor. A thirty foot reline would come in a 1500 bucks in my area. ANd we dont install. I use three different companies to install. Ohhh and one more thing, the good stuff doenst usally come in a kit. Its ala cart. I bet this installer bid a nice homsaver liner on this job. And if you do it yourself, and do it properly (insulate it, armor mesh it, hump 30' of liner up your roof), you will see why its worth 600 bucks to pay someone. ITs a real pain in the butt, expecially on long chimneys.
  9. Shane

    Shane Minister of Fire

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    Well said MSG, well said.
  10. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    If you take good care of the stove and clean the liner regularly, it will last longer than many cars and will give you added benefits - fuel savings, comfort, power outage security, and aethetics (this is a beautiful insert).

    When we bought our pellet stove in 2000 I balked at the price, but it paid itself back quite well and gave us the benefit of greater comfort.

    Sounds like you are getting a good deal all around. I know I wouldn't want to install a 3 story liner.

    Go for it, you'll be happy you did and post some pictures of the installation!
  11. MountainStoveGuy

    MountainStoveGuy Minister of Fire

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    Industry rip off secrets. Here is COST from a popular supplier of liner equipment
    Homesaver Round Flex 304 ss
    25' coil 360.39
    cap 50.65
    top plate :33.50
    insulation 292.98 (includes armor mesh and hardware)
    Total cost: 737.52

    homesaver round flex 316 ss
    25' coil 703.34
    cap 50.65
    top plate 33.50
    insulation 292.98
    total 1080.47

    As you can see its important to know what your getting, if he is bidding a cheap liner with no insulation your not getting a good deal, if he is bidding the 304 stuff from homsaver your getting a very fair deal. The key is to know what he is selling you. The liner is the last place to skimp, i would rather see clients spend less on a insert and have it properly lined then vise versa. A proper chimney works like its supposed too, and last as long as the appliance does. And for what its worth i DONT sell liner material, i tell customers realisticly what it takes to get one installed, and work backwards to the insert. It cost me money to operate that way, but i feel its better for the customer to do it that way. I would rather not have the call "my insert isnt drafting" then to talk them in to a cheap install and a expensive insert.
  12. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    I usually do not voice oppinions on fair pricing. I require each component of the installation identified. I will not issue a permit unless a code compliant linner is speced. When the listed liner is ss 304 a red flag goes up. I know the only way ss 304 passes UL listing is when it is insulated. ss316 is a better material and on its own will pass the HT2100 standards. Insulated liner do preform better than not. If your insert is being installed in a chimney exposed to the outside, Insulation becomes more of a factor to prevent heat loss and promote proper stove opperations and draft.

    My suggestion to you is have all items supplied in the install identified. Do not forget the importance of the damper block off plate.
    Make sure it is included in the install. Report back to the forum when the liner manufacture and model is spelled out. Then one can accurately pass judgement on whether it is a fair price to pay. I also suggest you obtain a permit and make the final payment upon satisfactory final inspection Still better require the installer to obtain the permit
  13. Mike Wilson

    Mike Wilson New Member

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    I agree with Elk. Different liners have different prices. DanInOhio, do yourself, and us, a favor, and ask your installer exactly what brand liner you are getting, and exactly what the composition of it is... as in 304SS, or 316Ti, etc. Then please post it here.

    -- Mike
  14. daninohio

    daninohio New Member

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    Cincinnati, OH
    I do know it is a Homesaver liner being quoted, but I will need to call and find out whether it is 304 or 316 and insulated or not. FWIW, my chimney is in the middle of the house, so I understand that should help with the draft.

    It will be a couple days before I can post again as I'm heading out of town for a business trip now.

    Many thanks for all of the advice/opinions and a special thanks to Nokoni for all of the e-mails about your experience.

    Dan
  15. daninohio

    daninohio New Member

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    I spoke with them and it is Homesaver 316 (uninsulated). So the price is in the ballpark of reasonable then?

    Also, $100 off for a summer installation as well.

    When I asked about the damper block-off plate he said that they use a top plate and that they would typically use a damper block-off only when they are terminating the liner before the top of the chimney. Does that sound reasonable?

    Finally, I'm assuming that non-insulated 316 will work for an interior chimney. Is that right?

    Many thanks for the help/advice.
  16. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, your supplier is gonna be mad at me, but the use of a bottom block off is, in my opinion, very important. Otherwise, you are effectively installing the insert into a big room which includes your entire chimney interior. Of course, this is more important with an exterior chimney than an interior one.

    So, being as you have interior it may be optional. Still, even 10 years ago and more, our shop never did it any other way. Just the possibility of smell from the interior of the chimney is enough reason.

    I think the uninsulated will work just fine on that interior chimney....especially if the chimney is sound. If, however, you have a chimney where the mortar and bricks are falling apart and wood framing is close by, the insulation will add safety....
  17. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    I think it time your installer review the code book again, or for the first time, probably in his case. Code calls for preventing the dillusion of room air getting into the chimney chase . Also that it be ridged and of a non combustiable material. Meaning laying in a couple bats if insulation does not define ridgid. Also tightly sealed. By code it is not an option it is required. If you need the exact language I will post it. The answer you received exposed how un informed your installer is. Dillusion of air code surfaced in the Boca Mechanical codes in 1986
  18. Mike Wilson

    Mike Wilson New Member

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    Well, you are still paying $965 for a chimney liner which costs, at most, 700 bucks delivered...
    Homesaver Liner

    And you can certainly get a comparable liner for 350, tops...
    Chimney Liners

    But, that said, I would definitely get a blocking plate at your damper. First, as the Craigmeister said, it will cut down the chimney smell, and decrease your "room size" Secondly, if there is a blocking plate at the damper, and a cap plate on top, you are effectively creating a smaller, warmer area in which your flue will operate... the warmer the flue, the better it operates, so you will have better draught from your uninsulated 316 liner. I run a 316Ti liner, uninsulated, in an exterior masonry chimney, 6'x3'x25' and I use a blocking plate on the bottom, and a cap on top. Pulls fine, no stinky chimney syndrome.

    -- Mike
  19. MountainStoveGuy

    MountainStoveGuy Minister of Fire

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    yes, you can get things below wholesale on ebay, but you also get to install it your self, or you can buy it from a installer, and pay a 18ofit margin (10% accounts for freight) and let him deal with it. You will always find something cheap online, because there is no support given if needed. So unless your doing the job yourself, online pricing doenst mean anything.

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