Problems with new Jotul C550

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Been a while but here is the update after meeting with the Jotul area rep this afternoon. I am losing too much heat up my chimney, even though at the top where the cap is, it is sealed off by a flat plate the last inches of the stove pipe run through and cap sits on. Plus, being an old outside chimney, the old ash clean out door needs to be sealed up, even though the ash dump door in the firebox has been sealed for years. When I started converting over to solely wood heat about 6 years ago, I had to cut out the damper/flue in the chimney to get the stove pipe through. With this unit, I have to shut all that excess space off so that the heat from this unit is not mixing so much with the cold air in the chimney and I am not wasting so much heat up the column of the chimney and more will be kept where it is supposed to be...heating my house. Sealing this opening off with Rock Wool or Stone Wool insulation should do the trick, and is what the Jotul rep recommended. Once I take care of those two items, all should be good to go since the unit itself is firing just fine and everything on it is working just fine. The wood I am using is more than seasoned, and moisture meter testing indicates 15% or less, and probably on average 9% of what we checked today. Why this couldn't have been solved earlier in the burn season, misunderstanding and miscommunication happen on the other end. The confidence is high that taking care of and making these adjustments will produce the expected results and all the issues will be gone. Why the meaurer/installer guy never caught any of this is beyond all three of our comprehension, but at least I know where to start from to get this thing right from now on.

Thanks again everyone!...

Stay tuned til next burning season, unless I can get things sealed up in the next week or so and do some decent burning. Winter is hanging on tough this month and maybe into the first week of April.
 
AZWoodburner, would you mind telling me which Jotul rep went to you house and told you about sealing off the opening with Rock Wool or Stone Wool? (My email is [email protected] if you don't want to put names on this website.) The rep who came here said that our wood was too wet. That was at least a year ago, maybe 2 years. Yes, there was a steep learning curve for us in making and maintaining fires in Jotul 550, but we are now proficient at this. However, the darn thing just plain doesn't heat the house or even the room it is in.

What I really want to know is how to get the heat into the room instead of up the chimney. Any help appreciated!

Thanks,
Carol
 
AZWoodburner, would you mind telling me which Jotul rep went to you house and told you about sealing off the opening with Rock Wool or Stone Wool? (My email is [email protected] if you don't want to put names on this website.) The rep who came here said that our wood was too wet. That was at least a year ago, maybe 2 years. Yes, there was a steep learning curve for us in making and maintaining fires in Jotul 550, but we are now proficient at this. However, the darn thing just plain doesn't heat the house or even the room it is in.

What I really want to know is how to get the heat into the room instead of up the chimney. Any help appreciated!

Thanks,
Carol

I'll send it via email.
 
Hello everyone,
I was able to speak to our Jotul rep a few minutes ago. He said to check that there is insulation (Rock Wool) around the pipe from the damper to the top of the chimney. I've just left a message for the installers to find out if they did/when they can do this.

The rep also says he thinks our thermometer is reading much higher than the actual temp of the fire, so I will get a new thermometer asap. The auto fan just kicked on at reading about 700 degrees. I don't see the secondary burn, though.

Happy to have any and all suggestions.

Thanks,
Carol
 
cp, Please keep us informed. Just got my C550 and am having the same issue with no heat. I get secondaries and some heat right in front but 8 feet away, nothing. Wood moisture is 14-18% (fresh cut measured with a general mmd4e moisture meter) at first I thought it was the wood but that is ruled out. I did just install a block off plate. Liner is not insulated but top and bottom of chimney is. I have read the c550 problem thread 3 times. Finally burning how begreen said to with the new stoves. I was keeping my damper open to long. Use to burning the old way. Adjusting to the new EPA stove and am going to see how it goes this weekend. Only get about one or two reloads during the week at night and with the weather and me being old school I am going to blame it on operator error. Time will tell.
 
Keep us posted. It has been a very steep learning curve for me, and thanks to the folks on this thread about a month ago, I have gotten much better at using this insert. It takes a good 8 hours for it to heat up my house, and even then, it doesn't live up to my old insert in overall heating my house. The old school insert and way would take 2-3 hrs to have my house go from 58-72 or more. No comparison. But, this insert uses almost no wood, and I am getting better at micromanaging it when I am home from work and throughout the night, or home all day/night on the weekends. I guess it is just one of those things, and those old school ways are hard to die. Keep at it Hamsey, and the ones who know on this thread are really really helpful.
 
Thanks for the thoughtful replies.

I maybe wrote the wrong thing. I don't expect the Jotul to heat my whole house, but it is not even heating the 500 sf room it is in. It has to be blazing to get heat from the blower, and you'd think that room would get pretty warm.
Your first post said the room its in gets to 80 degrees. To me, that's pretty darn warm and the stove seems to be doing its job. You have a lot of space to heat.
 
That doesn't seem right. The blower on mine turns on quite quickly and I am having no problems with it. It may not be as strong as my old school insert, but is certainly quieter and seems to work properly.
 
A BIG thank you to all who documented thier installation problems with the Jotul C550. My Jotul was installed this fall and until I read this thread I was VERY disappointed in it and ready to rip it out. It could barely heat a 700 sq ft room in Virginia and burned terribly! Since I had a wood stove at my previous house I knew something was VERY wrong! I pulled the surround off (very easy just lift it up) and discovered that NO block off plate had been installed in my fireplace! Big wide open hole up the flue to the great outdoors. Based on the advice of this website, I insulated above the block off plate I made as best I could and then I insulated the entire fire box (my fireplace is huge) with Roxul. WOW what a difference! The stove will not maintain the temperature in our entire 3,000 sq fit house on a 25 degree night!! It burns much, much better as well. It now burns with an intensity it simply did not do before. Before I was never able to really close the dampener without losing the fire.

Another big thank you for telling me the heat sensor is near the front of the stove. I use to build my fires starting in the back so it would take forever for the fan to kick on. Now I build them in the front and it comes on about 20 minutes after I start it. THANK YOU!! I also had a problem with the fans vibrating and rattling.

I put a small thin piece of Roxul under each fan. Not only is it significantly quieter - no more random rattles! I still get a little smoke puffing in the room when loading it, and I am hoping insulating the rest of the liner will do the trick. Our chimney is on an outside wall.

I hope my experience helps someone else - I was ready to sell my Jotul and now I couldn't be happier with it. My installer - he said they forgot the block off plate. Unbelievable.
 

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Great to hear it.

Hearth.com strikes again.
 
A BIG thank you to all who documented thier installation problems with the Jotul C550. My Jotul was installed this fall and until I read this thread I was VERY disappointed in it and ready to rip it out. It could barely heat a 700 sq ft room in Virginia and burned terribly! Since I had a wood stove at my previous house I knew something was VERY wrong! I pulled the surround off (very easy just lift it up) and discovered that NO block off plate had been installed in my fireplace! Big wide open hole up the flue to the great outdoors. Based on the advice of this website, I insulated above the block off plate I made as best I could and then I insulated the entire fire box (my fireplace is huge) with Roxul. WOW what a difference! The stove will not maintain the temperature in our entire 3,000 sq fit house on a 25 degree night!! It burns much, much better as well. It now burns with an intensity it simply did not do before. Before I was never able to really close the dampener without losing the fire.

Another big thank you for telling me the heat sensor is near the front of the stove. I use to build my fires starting in the back so it would take forever for the fan to kick on. Now I build them in the front and it comes on about 20 minutes after I start it. THANK YOU!! I also had a problem with the fans vibrating and rattling.

I put a small thin piece of Roxul under each fan. Not only is it significantly quieter - no more random rattles! I still get a little smoke puffing in the room when loading it, and I am hoping insulating the rest of the liner will do the trick. Our chimney is on an outside wall.

I hope my experience helps someone else - I was ready to sell my Jotul and now I couldn't be happier with it. My installer - he said they forgot the block off plate. Unbelievable.
************************************************************************************************************

Thank you so much for this post. We've been really struggling in our third season. Wood is good, technique is good, but I can't get temps the others post about. A lot of work got me up to 650 once, and I had to conclude it was all going out the chimney.

We ought to start a new thread on how to install a blockoff plate, where and how much roxul for the sides, back and top., what kind of machine will ease stove out, and put it back and see if someone has already done this work and back in. Our FP is a unit with two open sides (front and left side). I'd guess I'd rather see the FP cavity lined with copper for something fun to look at with Roxal behind that.

This is hopeful stuff. I'm staying tuned. Thanks,
Greg
 
Glad to hear it is all coming together for you. I still have my doubts about this unit. It does not live up to its billing and selling points. It is not my wood, technique, or anything else we have meticulously gone through here on this thread. I feel fortunate to be able to get house temp up to 70 and maintain it for barely 1100 SqFt. Far from what was expected and sold as. I will check with my chimney guys this spring/summer about insulating around the fireplace box and cavities around the unit itself. When I have asked in the past about it to several different sources, including the rep who is non existent and worthless, they have all said I don't need it. Sounds as if I do, and should just go ahead and wrap the whole thing in Roxswul. Thermometers that have magnets on them, worthless. I can't get a temp reading past 350, though if I left the vent open for several hours and continued to have heat go up the stack as a regular fireplace does, I am sure I could get decent temp readings. Next step is to purchase a digital one. Season is almost over in a couple of months or so, and back at tweaking the set up some more.

Again, I am glad my initial frustration and post from last year prompted all this information gathering and assistance that Jotul reps and sales point people don't initiate whatsoever. Glad it is working out for everyone.
 
Glad to hear it is all coming together for you. I still have my doubts about this unit. It does not live up to its billing and selling points. It is not my wood, technique, or anything else we have meticulously gone through here on this thread. I feel fortunate to be able to get house temp up to 70 and maintain it for barely 1100 SqFt. Far from what was expected and sold as. I will check with my chimney guys this spring/summer about insulating around the fireplace box and cavities around the unit itself. When I have asked in the past about it to several different sources, including the rep who is non existent and worthless, they have all said I don't need it. Sounds as if I do, and should just go ahead and wrap the whole thing in Roxswul. Thermometers that have magnets on them, worthless. I can't get a temp reading past 350, though if I left the vent open for several hours and continued to have heat go up the stack as a regular fireplace does, I am sure I could get decent temp readings. Next step is to purchase a digital one. Season is almost over in a couple of months or so, and back at tweaking the set up some more.

Again, I am glad my initial frustration and post from last year prompted all this information gathering and assistance that Jotul reps and sales point people don't initiate whatsoever. Glad it is working out for everyone.


The season isn't over yet! Go to Lowe's buy one bat of Roxul ($40), insulate your firebox and see how it performs. I insulated my entire firebox. Sides and top - there is no longer any exposed surface of the original fireplace. It should take you less than a half hour to install the insulation. You can always use the insulation somewhere else if you change your mind. The surround is very easy to take off. It just lifts off. If you can feel cold air like I did when you take it off there is your first big problem! What do you have to lose?
 
The season isn't over yet! Go to Lowe's buy one bat of Roxul ($40), insulate your firebox and see how it performs. I insulated my entire firebox. Sides and top - there is no longer any exposed surface of the original fireplace. It should take you less than a half hour to install the insulation. You can always use the insulation somewhere else if you change your mind. The surround is very easy to take off. It just lifts off. If you can feel cold air like I did when you take it off there is your first big problem! What do you have to lose?

OK. Thanks! I'll go and do that and give it a try. The surround doesn't fit flush up against the brick anyhow. I have posted that last year, but everyone who chimed in at the time said that it was OK. When the Rep came out, he said it had nothing to do with the issues either. I had insulation all around my old one and that helped a lot. Here's to giving it a go and keep on tweaking this high maintenance unit called Jotul Rockland 550.
 
I finally have been able to purchase a big bat of Roxul, and insulated my entire firebox, including several layers just laying on the top of the insert/unit. While it smells like one would suspect (newish), and the unit itself feels much much hotter, it is not heating my house and the temp results are still the same. It has been about 4 hours since I cleaned everything up, added the insulation, and lit the fire. My house has gone from 61 to 68 degrees and that is where it is staying. It is a bit warmer outside (26) than it has been over this winter and quite sunny. The wood I am using is incredibly dry and all mixed hardwood. Technique has been all tweaked, etc. from everyone's input here on this thread, and the result is still marginal and falls way below what is/was expected and sold as. Chimney and stack has been all taken care of and brought up to code, insulating blanket and all. Again, my house is just barely over 1000 SqFt ranch with a more open floor plan than most. Last summer, I put in 5k worth of energy upgrades/insulation, etc. Final conclusion...this Jotul Rockland C550 is a worthless pile of crud and I am now so utterly and completely disgusted with wasting my money over a year ago with such a purchase that I am now stuck with for the duration. Jotul will NEVER get my endorsement for this unit. I will tell everyone I know who asks NEVER to buy this unit and to find something else, and maybe even a different company to deal with. Thanks again to everyone who has assisted and lent their advice and experience. We all did the best we could with what we had to work with.
 
Sorry to hear about your frustrations. I thought you had posted better results earlier.
 
I thought they were getting a bit better as well, but not really. Just wishful thinking and hope beyond reality.

I didn't reread every last post in the thread so if you've already answered my mistake but how hot is the stove getting? Also do you have cathedral ceilings? I get pretty good heat out of mine. I mean I have no problem believing a flush mount stove has limitations but seems like you should be able to heat 1000 sg ft w/o much trouble at all.

I know you've answered all these questions an stuck w/ it so I understand why you're annoyed.
 
I didn't reread every last post in the thread so if you've already answered my mistake but how hot is the stove getting? Also do you have cathedral ceilings? I get pretty good heat out of mine. I mean I have no problem believing a flush mount stove has limitations but seems like you should be able to heat 1000 sg ft w/o much trouble at all.

I know you've answered all these questions an stuck w/ it so I understand why you're annoyed.

It's OK. I don't mind answering and talking about how disappointing this whole experience has been over the last 2 burn seasons. I don't have a decent thermometer to gauge how hot the stove is actually getting. The magnetic one I mount where advised by one of the posts above doesn't work and cuts out around 300. I imagine it gets up to about 500-600 or so. Just haven't invested in one of those digital ones yet for true accuracy. If I leave the damper open for a long time, and/or crack the door open for about in hour, I get the insert really really super hot. But then I was advised when I did this that I was losing all the heat up the chimney, just as a regular fireplace would act. So as soon as the fan goes on, which takes about 20-30 mins, I start slowly dampening it down, and after an hour or so, I have it half to 2/3-3/4 shut down. Lots of heat and output can be felt in the room, and house temp rises, but only to about 68, and that is where it ends. Very rarely can I get it to 70-74.

I agree with you, I should be able to get this house up to 72-78 with no worries whatsoever. And that is what was sold to me about this unit as well. "You should have no problems heating your house as your old one did." With all the upgrades to my chimney, and stack, and firebox, and insulating liner on the stack, etc. plus the initial cost and cost of installation, I am into this worthless piece of garbage for almost 5 grand now. What a waste! No, I can't afford to change it out. The only upside is I use way less wood. And it keeps this place between 62-68 on average, so 10 degrees lower than the old one. And yes, I know...I can't compare the two. It is like apples and oranges. But still...
 
Hmm, I sometimes keep my door open for a couple minutes like 2-3. If you leave the primary air open you are sending heat up the chimney. I can tell you for sure that as I cut the primary air back the stove temp goes up. This will be true as long as the fire is getting sufficient air so there is a limit. I'm getting good secondary burn within 20 min in most cases and that's where you get serious heat. Get a stove top thermometer that works, you may not be getting nearly as hot as you think. As has been said this stove can take being hot like 700+.

If you cannot get the fire to burn w/o keeping the door open or if cutting the air causes the fire to go out then you may have a draft problem. Poor draft will also kills secondaries. How tall is your chimney?
 
Hmm, I sometimes keep my door open for a couple minutes like 2-3. If you leave the primary air open you are sending heat up the chimney. I can tell you for sure that as I cut the primary air back the stove temp goes up. This will be true as long as the fire is getting sufficient air so there is a limit. I'm getting good secondary burn within 20 min in most cases and that's where you get serious heat. Get a stove top thermometer that works, you may not be getting nearly as hot as you think. As has been said this stove can take being hot like 700+.

If you cannot get the fire to burn w/o keeping the door open or if cutting the air causes the fire to go out then you may have a draft problem. Poor draft will also kills secondaries. How tall is your chimney?

I do cut the primary air flow back as soon as it gets hot enough to kick on the fan. Then I begin to cut it back, which as I said, is in about 20-30 mins or so. The chimney is clear and there is no draft problem. With the stack extension I had put on last year, it is now 16', which is one foot over the minimum from the installation instructions. Thanks again for your input, but pretty much everything has been gone over with a fine tooth comb.

Where do you get this stove top thermometer? What is the model/make/etc.? I have been advised earlier on to get a digital one, but have no clue as to what make/model/etc. and haven't really made the time to investigate this one more micromanagement thing further.
 
I do cut the primary air flow back as soon as it gets hot enough to kick on the fan. Then I begin to cut it back, which as I said, is in about 20-30 mins or so. The chimney is clear and there is no draft problem. With the stack extension I had put on last year, it is now 16', which is one foot over the minimum from the installation instructions. Thanks again for your input, but pretty much everything has been gone over with a fine tooth comb.

Where do you get this stove top thermometer? What is the model/make/etc.? I have been advised earlier on to get a digital one, but have no clue as to what make/model/etc. and haven't really made the time to investigate this one more micromanagement thing further.

A2 I know you've put the time in and I don't expect that you're going to have some miracle at this point. On the other hand if you're not at the stove temps you think you are then you may be able to get a some more out of it and maybe that's enough to make your situation tolerable to you even if you're not doing handstands.

Any stove place will have a magnetic stove top thermos that read to 900. A lot of people seem to like the Condors I think mines a Rutland. Put it right in the air vent a few inches back. You won't be able to read it easily but its the only way to get a decent reading. I use a flashlight to read mine. I also have a Harbor Freight IR which I use sometimes.

I'd suggest you cut the air before the fan kicks on if you can. Cut the air based on what the fire is doing and run the fans based on what the thermo reads, two separate things. Lastly you are only 1' above the minimum on your chimney. Between that and what you describe I'm suspicious your draft is not as good as it could be.

To give you an idea, with a decent sized fire, the primary air enters my stove well enough that it whistles and I usually have to cut the air 3/4 or even 7/8 at some point during the burn, It doesn't sound like you are able to do that. Also as I said draft is what pulls in secondary air. You have no control of that but if your draft is marginal you may not be getting good enough pull to fire the secondaries and get that "gates of hell" thing going on. From what you say I think a few more feet of pipe may really help but get the thermo first and see if you can get the top up to 650-700 consistently, that's key.
 
Thanks again. I have a Rutland spring loaded thermometer, and tried to put it in the place where you advised several months ago, and could not get any kind of read on it, nor could I even see the thing in that location, flashlight or not. Heck, I even used a small dental type mirror to try and view the temp readings. The thing never really ever got above 300 degrees or so. Finally, I just gave up on it since it really wasn't any kind of read or anything useful. Even at the hottest I could get the insert, the thermometer never climbed higher than 300+. Essentially I never got a decent reading.

According to the Jotul rep last spring, my chimney height is now fine, and I have done all the other recommendations he made. Then I have also done what the chimney specialists have done to make everything all up to code and compliant. The height is fine. I just swept it a month ago or so when there was a slight warm up here in Michigan. Primary air doesn't whistle, but I can hear it rushing in and make that whooshing noise of it being drawn in well. Plus, there is no way feasible for me to add on even more pipe to what I have already extended it too. It just is not going to happen and can't make it happen, all based on the roof line, etc.

Again, all has been gone over with a fine tooth comb and made compliant and this thing just is not working up to what you are experiencing with yours. I have a very hard time believing that any of these other fine tuning and adjustments are going to make a major difference like you are saying. All this continual micromanaging of this unit is way over the top of what should be and what needs to be and what is expected to be of what I need to do to have it operate properly and as advertised and sold as.

Know that I am not taking any of this out on you. It is just utter frustration and disillusionment coming through with something that shouldn't be this way.
 
Thanks again. I have a Rutland spring loaded thermometer, and tried to put it in the place where you advised several months ago, and could not get any kind of read on it, nor could I even see the thing in that location, flashlight or not. Heck, I even used a small dental type mirror to try and view the temp readings. The thing never really ever got above 300 degrees or so. Finally, I just gave up on it since it really wasn't any kind of read or anything useful. Even at the hottest I could get the insert, the thermometer never climbed higher than 300+. Essentially I never got a decent reading.

According to the Jotul rep last spring, my chimney height is now fine, and I have done all the other recommendations he made. Then I have also done what the chimney specialists have done to make everything all up to code and compliant. The height is fine. I just swept it a month ago or so when there was a slight warm up here in Michigan. Primary air doesn't whistle, but I can hear it rushing in and make that whooshing noise of it being drawn in well. Plus, there is no way feasible for me to add on even more pipe to what I have already extended it too. It just is not going to happen and can't make it happen, all based on the roof line, etc.

Again, all has been gone over with a fine tooth comb and made compliant and this thing just is not working up to what you are experiencing with yours. I have a very hard time believing that any of these other fine tuning and adjustments are going to make a major difference like you are saying. All this continual micromanaging of this unit is way over the top of what should be and what needs to be and what is expected to be of what I need to do to have it operate properly and as advertised and sold as.

Know that I am not taking any of this out on you. It is just utter frustration and disillusionment coming through with something that shouldn't be this way.

I know your just PO'd so I get it. Gotta figure out why your stove top thermo isn't reading above 300. If its a faulty thermo then that's one thing. If the reading is anywhere near accurate then you will be able to get more heat out of it then you are now. Thermo placement for me is 2-3" inched in and placed so as temp rises the needle points to the front. If it was the other way it would be tough or impossible to read. Did you ever do a kiln dried wood test?
 
I finally have been able to purchase a big bat of Roxul, and insulated my entire firebox, including several layers just laying on the top of the insert/unit. While it smells like one would suspect (newish), and the unit itself feels much much hotter, it is not heating my house and the temp results are still the same. It has been about 4 hours since I cleaned everything up, added the insulation, and lit the fire. My house has gone from 61 to 68 degrees and that is where it is staying. It is a bit warmer outside (26) than it has been over this winter and quite sunny. The wood I am using is incredibly dry and all mixed hardwood. Technique has been all tweaked, etc. from everyone's input here on this thread, and the result is still marginal and falls way below what is/was expected and sold as. Chimney and stack has been all taken care of and brought up to code, insulating blanket and all. Again, my house is just barely over 1000 SqFt ranch with a more open floor plan than most. Last summer, I put in 5k worth of energy upgrades/insulation, etc. Final conclusion...this Jotul Rockland C550 is a worthless pile of crud and I am now so utterly and completely disgusted with wasting my money over a year ago with such a purchase that I am now stuck with for the duration. Jotul will NEVER get my endorsement for this unit. I will tell everyone I know who asks NEVER to buy this unit and to find something else, and maybe even a different company to deal with. Thanks again to everyone who has assisted and lent their advice and experience. We all did the best we could with what we had to work with.

A2W,
I really sympathize with you. I have had a hard time getting !HEAT! out of my 550. I've got an old freestander in the basement and three good splits does a nice job there, and the basement starting point is 55-58 degrees. It can easily get that space uncomfortable. Sometimes I wonder since there are no big windows if that might be a difference.

I think you're burning correctly. Big fire, bleed off heat. Who knew this takes an engineering marvel?

I commend you for getting all the mods done so quickly. I won't get to them till summer. The hottest I've ever seen my 550 is 650F. That was with the blower "off" full of Osage. Temp dropped to 550F max with the blower on. I know others have struggled with this unit but some seem to succeed like Jatoxico, and I'm glad he shares his experience. But what the heck is the difference? I mean seriously, it's like the gas mileage in my 02 Tacoma V6. 16 MPG in town driving like Grandma Moses? It's not like I'm burning rubber or even hearing racing noises. What is that engine _doing_ with the gasoline? But I digress...

I read a seemingly scholarly paper on geo-thermal heat pumps. Based on installation costs and inflated ISO efficiencies, the conclusion was to improve a structure's envelope and stick to an existing system if there were no problems with the unit. Maybe our longest-term solution is to start to look more closely at our houses. I know that as I have more birthdays, I know my definition of cold gets warmer and my definition of warm gets colder, or something like that...
 
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