Pyrolysis... and setting your house aflame

  • Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.

    We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.

    We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
every boiler and tank is different. mine is a dunkirk 90. as it is 90% efficient, and a 45 gallon superstore. it's a all aluminum block and a cold start my sweet spot is 140 as set on my tank. it does go to 180 but goes down to 150 before turning back on to go to 180 degrees but the difference is i went from 130 to 140 with out burning more fuel. just as it's about to turn on again to hit 180 it shuts down cause the tank came up to temp. as long as people don't take different times for a shower it's the same usage
Had to look those up. Are you heating the superstore off the second loop in the boiler, or tagged off the primary heating loop? When you say "my sweet spot is 140", what do you mean? There are five or six set points involved, between boiler LO, boiler HI, boiler DIFF, indirect LO, etc. Also, how did you determine the sweet spot?
 
the sweet spot is trial and error. i was keeping my boiler at 130 degrees for the longest time and i went up to 140 degrees and it didn't cost me more and the boiler was on its down side heading from 180 degrees down to turn on temp and never turned on. my boiler is a straight gas boiler the only control is the aquastat for the high temp and the aquastat has a differential temp anything up to 30 degrees. it was set on 5 degrees differential when i got it and i moved it to 30 so as to not have short cycles. th only thing that has gone at this moment in time is the inducer fan i bought and installed it cost a little over $500.00 just for the part. the motor was ok but the fan that was bolted to it and could not be removed was gone. that is the only ball bearing motor to be found the one i got and was out there was a sleave bearing. i'm not happy about it. but can't do anything about it. so my water tank is a zone i have 4 zones on it and that is one of them. piped with 1 inch pipe from the superstore tank and if it is being used and i'm in the shower it will recover while i'm in the shower. we never run out of hot water. even if the dishwasher and clothes washer is running while i'm in the shower
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ashful
Same here, with the boilermate. The make-up of the boiler is faster than we can use water, at least so far in 12 years of living here, we've never run out of hot water. Despite having numerous loads, I think our well pump flow rate (10 gpm) is going to ensure we never use hot water much faster than the boiler can make it up.
 
A post like that would be like issuing a challenge in my household!

Can you beat the water pump/heater?
 
I had forgotten about this nugget of knowledge till I was looking for something else this morning:

The protection of adjacent combustible material must allow for the fact that wood and other
combustible materials suffer from decreased resistance to ignition after exposure to continual
heating at even moderate temperatures. Wood itself has a relatively high ignition temperature —
ranging from 400 to 480°F for most species. When exposed to sudden heating, fresh wood
must be raised at least to this temperature before a self-sustaining combustion reaction will begin to
take place.

When wood is exposed to heat over a period of time, however, it undergoes a gradual change in
its molecular structure through a process called pyrolysis. The complex organic molecules of
which wood is composed are slowly broken apart, and much of the original weight and structural
integrity of the wood is lost. As this process continues, the material left behind is charcoal,
which is also known by the more ominous sounding and technically correct term pyrophoric
carbon. Pyrophoric carbon is different from wood and has different properties. First, it has a
significantly lower ignition temperature than that of the original wood. Various studies have fixed
this temperature at 200 to 250°F, and there are suggestions that the figure could be even lower.
Secondly, pyrophoric carbon is known to adsorb oxygen from the air into its porous structure. The
adsorbed oxygen can combine with the carbon with sufficient rapidity to generate considerable
heat. In other words, not only will pyrophoric carbon ignite at a lower temperature, but when
exposed to air it can generate some of the heat of ignition itself.3

There are numerous documented cases of ignition of wood near low-pressure steam pipes which
cannot get hotter than about 250°F. Typically,these occur in a hidden area where air cannot
circulate freely to dissipate heat. Invariably, the fire starts after months or even years of exposure,
and there is evidence that the intermittent nature of the heating pattern contributes to the likelihood
of ignition. Fires related to the long-term pyrolysis of wood usually begin with slight glowing of the
exposed charcoal. This incipient combustion releases heat which accelerates the ignition of
adjacent material. Finally, when sufficient heat has built up or when a fresh supply of air becomes
available, flaming begins and the fire spreads rapidly.

Ignition of wood surrounding chimneys is also well documented. While some of these fires may
be due to a sudden rise in temperature into the range of the ignition temperature of fresh wood,
the majority are caused by the same scenario recognized for steam pipes: long term intermittent
exposure to moderate heating. Concealed areas such as floor/ceiling assemblies and wall penetrations are particularly vulnerable, and the on-off pattern of heating from chimneys probably contributes to the problem. Wood exposed under these circumstances is converted to pyrophoric carbon and is "primed and ready" to burn. Often an unusual incident such as accidental overfiring or, as we shall see, a chimney fire provides the occasion for ignition.
The temperature produced by the chimney need not become extremely high. A rise into the 200°F range, together with the self heating properties of the carbon, may be sufficient to initiate the combustion process.

It is generally agreed that exposure to temperatures ranging from 200 to 250°F on a long
term or intermittent basis can result in the ignition of wood. Therefore, the engineering and test
criteria for chimney design require that wood exposed to heating from a chimney not rise in
temperature more than 90°F over ambient temperature, i.e., about 170°F. Some test
standards allow brief periods of higher temperature rise during short-term abnormal
operation tests, but the conservative approach to temperature limitation is paramount.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fbelec and Ashful
paper is thin wood bleached. and that has a i think 430 degree ignition