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Quadra Fire direct vent issue

Post in 'It's a Gas!' started by pellet9999, Nov 30, 2008.

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  1. pellet9999

    pellet9999 Member

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    ny
    This stove is a Castille by Quadra Fire. Its a gas room heater. I took apart the thimble to make sure it was ok and ready for use. Here are some pics.
    It has a double wall un insulated and a 3rd sheet metal reflector. I started it up and was alarmed at the temp on the outer sleeve coming right off the stove thru the
    elbow, before the thimble.It is probably ok but I am not taking any chances. I am un insured.
    I want to replace the whole pipe system,direct vent, with an INSULATED either both inner and outer or at least one of them.Sorta like Duravent is to
    pellet stoves.
    Any ideas for this.??? The dimensions are.....inner sleeve 4" OD......second sleeve 6 7/8 OD...... 3rd reflector 9" OD note the flaired end coming off the elbow off the stovetop.The stove top goes right into an elbow 90 and then straight out into the thimble.
    I wouldnt be surprised if these stoves have caused more than 1 house to burn down. Cheap, low grade engineering.seems to be the theme in America.

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  2. R&D Guy

    R&D Guy New Member

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    Maybe some others can help, but I've never heard of insulating gas DV pipe. A DV gas unit is quite a bit different and in a lot of ways safer than a pellet, or wood stove. For example, you don't have the chimney fire senario with a gas unit, and the flue is surrounded by cooler combustion air. So you turn it on high, and about 4 to 6 hours later everything is as hot as it's going to get. When Quad did their certification the clearances are checked all around the pipe and cannot exceed 90° above ambient - so about 160° F. It's easy to meet or exceed this requirement with air gaps.
  3. PaulRicklefs

    PaulRicklefs New Member

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    Loc:
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    I wouldn't be overly concerned with the high temp on the outer pipe. I've installed several DV appliances and had similar results as yourself. As your flue exits the house it should get cooler and cooler. Think of it as recycling waste heat from the flue to warm up the incoming air. Makes it a little more efficient.

    I honestly wouldn't worry about it unless it is either glowing or burning paint off the pipe.
  4. tubbster

    tubbster Member

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    Loc:
    Central NY
    My (very similar stove /different make) does the same thing. Is your stove vented straight out?
    Too hot to touch.
  5. pellet9999

    pellet9999 Member

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    I have been looking for a 100 % fireproof insulation to put around the very outer pipe. I could probably live with that. ANyone know of one, like a spun metal material or ceramic
    that is NOT combustible, like rock dust or metal dust.not a foam or anything like that. there must be something like that ,that is somewhat flexible out there ....????links???
  6. tubbster

    tubbster Member

    Joined:
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    Personally, I would not re-engineer their product. They specify airspace, and that is what I put there.

    Consider that putting anything else there may actually conduct heat?

    Have you taken an IR gun to see what the actual temps truly are?
  7. R&D Guy

    R&D Guy New Member

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    So long as it's per the manual then you'll be fine. Just confirm that you have the correct wall thimble with what's spec'd in the manual. The only thing I'd suggest is to put a few screws into the wall about 3" apart above the pipe so your insulation doesn't fall down onto your wall thimble.

    To give you a little background, when a stove like that is tested and certified by an independent lab it's put into an alcove with minimum horizontal vent. Where the pipe penetrates the wall a box is made of either 2x4's or 2x6's and the inside is painted flat black and fitting with thermocouples to measure the surface temp of the wood. The pipe and wall thimble then pass through this. The unit is then burnt on high for likely 4 to 6 hours until you have 3 consecutive readings a half hour apart without even a degree of temperature rise. The highest combustible surface temp cannot exceed 90° over room temp. That's the method of test dictated by ANSI Z21.88 and Quad's a good company from what I know.

    If you are still worried, then I'd suggest that you add greater clearance around the pipe. I wouldn't try and add some type of insulation because sometimes the best insulation is air. The other thing you could do is to de-rate the BTU's so the unit doesn't get as hot. You can do this easy by calling the dealer and get 1 size smaller orifice for the burner. Your dealer should be able to tell you how many less BTU's you'd be running. If not PM me and I'll help you out.
  8. jtp10181

    jtp10181 Minister of Fire

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    DO NOT INSULATE around the pipe! The manual specifically prohibits this and you could start your wall on fire.

    PLEASE PLEASE read through the manual before you go inventing your own way to install the stove / pipe.

    I can tell you going through the wall it does not look like you have proper clearance above the pipe but it could be the angle of the picture. You should have 3" above and 1" to the left and right.

    The pipe used there is the ONLY pipe tested with the unit, you cannot switch it out for anything else.

    Sorry if I duplicated anyone else answers, I don't really have time to read through it all and sift it out.

    pellet9999, PLEASE if you have anymore questions summarize them up so I can respond. We install these exact stoves every week so I can answer ANY questions. You really need to consult a pro before something dangerous is done. If you need to talk to someone on the phone PM me and I can give you my work #. Yes I will do this, just to make sure you do this safe.

    BTW they are not "cheap" or "low grade". Quad makes some of the best stoves (wood, pellet, and gas) in the industry and if installed properly there is near 0% chance of it burning your house down.
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