Quadrafire castile overfeeding issues (control box suspected)?

[pods8]

New guy here, have an issue with my stove I was wondering if you folks had some insight on prior to winter rolling in.

I’ve got a castile insert that I believe is a 2003 model off the top of my head. I bought it used in 2007 and I’ve run 2T of pellets through it each winter since (brand is blazer). Over the years I’ve replaced both blowers when the bearings started squealing (winters of 08 and 09 if I recall, one each year). The snap disc that turns off the convection blower (can’t recall which # that is off the top of my head) went out last winter and that was also replaced, however the body on it was a little different than the original. Door gaskets were replaced a few times, the last being late last winter.

My normal fall routine is pull out the unit, sweep the exhaust, and vacuum every nook & cranny I can get to. Also I use a scraper & piece of wire to make sure all the firepot surface and ports are all clear of crap. During the season I vacuum out the firebox/ash pan/heat exchangers/etc. and wipe down the glass once or twice a week. If the unit starts running poorly late in the season I’ll repeat the fall cleaning but it’s normally not an issue.

Later in last season I started having issues with my unit though. It started over feeding and would build up a huge pot of hot coals, it would overflow the firepot if we didn’t catch it. I’ve got a grey control box with three speed settings and normally keep it on the middle setting, nothing was changed there. I tried choking box the feed rate to the auger by adding an extension onto the normal rod/cover assembly. I had it choked down such that it usually took hitting the reset once to get enough pellets into the pot for initial start and yet once going the thing would still over feed. Also once the thermostat shut the unit off normally, the blowers would run for a while like normal but then they’d shut off after a bit with the heat exchangers still hot and hot coals in the firepot (things weren’t burning down all the way and this also created lots of excess ash build up). Basically it acted like it was just going off a minimum run time setting rather than sensing the heat in the unit.

We limped it through our last bags of the season and then put it to rest for the summer. Well I’ve just picked up my 2T of pellets for the year and it’s time to dust off this issue. Based on my research I’m inclined to suspect 2 items:
A) Lower suspicion: Pellets moisture content increased over the winter causing them to not burn as well thus the increased amount of coals. However that hasn’t been an issue for the 3 prior winters. Also that doesn’t explain shutting down the unit before it’s properly cooled down.
B) Higher suspicion: My control box is getting flaky. I believe the replacement box is SRV7000-205 which I can find on ebay for about $290.

Folks have any thoughts or other things I should check? I supposed I could fire up the stove now that I have pellets to check but it’s not really that cold out yet and I don’t really want to procrastinate (more) till I finally do need heat. I’ve seen some threads on rebuilding the box, however I’m not sure how the trouble shoot each circuit off hand to know which components are haywire. (I’m an ME, not an EE).

Thanks.

 

[imacman]

First of all, welcome to the forum.

As for the overfilling burn pot, the experience on this forum is that most of the time, it's due to poor airflow through the stove, and that is almost always due to a dirty stove. I know that you said you cleaned it well, but sometimes it's just not as good as you think. If at all possible, give the stove another EXTENSIVE cleaning, and then use the leaf blower trick that is mentioned many times here.

Another possibility is a weak combustion blower, and lastly (although not out of the realm of possibility), is the control board.

My guess, since the stove is 8 yrs old, is the dirty stove and/or the blower.

 

[DexterDay]

Have you "Timed" the auger??

By that I mean watch how many seconds its on (turning) and how many seconds its off (not turning). I have a Tech Manual for my Quad (will be no help to you as far as seconds. My unit is more BTU's=more time turning) but someone here has to have one for the Santa Fe or Castile (same parts/different shell). Counting the time will tell you if your getting the proper amount of fuel. If so, then its the Combustion blower or stove is plugged up somewhere. There is a lack of air being drawn through the burnpot holes.
When was the last time you removed the Combustion blower and cleaned the impeller blades. Also, what is your venting set-up (full description from stove to termination cap) and how do you clean it?

 

[pods8]

First of all, welcome to the forum.

As for the overfilling burn pot, the experience on this forum is that most of the time, it's due to poor airflow through the stove, and that is almost always due to a dirty stove. I know that you said you cleaned it well, but sometimes it's just not as good as you think. If at all possible, give the stove another EXTENSIVE cleaning, and then use the leaf blower trick that is mentioned many times here.

Another possibility is a weak combustion blower, and lastly (although not out of the realm of possibility), is the control board.

My guess, since the stove is 8 yrs old, is the dirty stove and/or the blower.

If it was just the pot overfilling wouldn't be looking at the control unit so much but the shutting down the blowers with hot heat exchangers and pot full of glowing red pellets was also an issue.

My cleaning routine has been the same and always worked well but always room for improvement (I was not familiar with the leaf blower trick, I just looked it up). Currently I hook a 6.5hp shop vac to the inside of the exhaust when I pull the stove and brush it from the outside.

Have you "Timed" the auger??

By that I mean watch how many seconds its on (turning) and how many seconds its off (not turning). I have a Tech Manual for my Quad (will be no help to you as far as seconds. My unit is more BTU's=more time turning) but someone here has to have one for the Santa Fe or Castile (same parts/different shell). Counting the time will tell you if your getting the proper amount of fuel. If so, then its the Combustion blower or stove is plugged up somewhere. There is a lack of air being drawn through the burnpot holes.
When was the last time you removed the Combustion blower and cleaned the impeller blades. Also, what is your venting set-up (full description from stove to termination cap) and how do you clean it?

Once I start burning I can check that out, I didn't take readings on it at the end of last year.

I haven't fully removed the combustion blower since I replaced it in 08, I can do that. I've got a 3" flexible stainless pipe going up inside my normal chimney pipe ~12' if I had to guess off hand. The pellet exhaust is an open hole at the top inside the normal chimney cap/hat. As mentioned above when I clean the exhaust I disconnect the stove on the inside and hook up a shop vac, then use a 3" brush from the top.

Thoughts on the blowers shutting down while the stove is hot still?

 

[Nicholas440]

If your entire stove is totally clean and ash free as it seems to be, I would suspect the temperature sensors that tell the control unit when to turn them off, or the control unit itself.

 

[Fish On]

First of all, welcome to the forum.

As for the overfilling burn pot, the experience on this forum is that most of the time, it's due to poor airflow through the stove, and that is almost always due to a dirty stove. I know that you said you cleaned it well, but sometimes it's just not as good as you think. If at all possible, give the stove another EXTENSIVE cleaning, and then use the leaf blower trick that is mentioned many times here.

Another possibility is a weak combustion blower, and lastly (although not out of the realm of possibility), is the control board.

My guess, since the stove is 8 yrs old, is the dirty stove and/or the blower.

If it was just the pot overfilling wouldn't be looking at the control unit so much but the shutting down the blowers with hot heat exchangers and pot full of glowing red pellets was also an issue.

My cleaning routine has been the same and always worked well but always room for improvement (I was not familiar with the leaf blower trick, I just looked it up). Currently I hook a 6.5hp shop vac to the inside of the exhaust when I pull the stove and brush it from the outside.


I would remove your combustion motor it is more then likely real dity.. I remove mine and clean after ever ton and i'm amazed at how dirty it is.

Have you "Timed" the auger??

By that I mean watch how many seconds its on (turning) and how many seconds its off (not turning). I have a Tech Manual for my Quad (will be no help to you as far as seconds. My unit is more BTU's=more time turning) but someone here has to have one for the Santa Fe or Castile (same parts/different shell). Counting the time will tell you if your getting the proper amount of fuel. If so, then its the Combustion blower or stove is plugged up somewhere. There is a lack of air being drawn through the burnpot holes.
When was the last time you removed the Combustion blower and cleaned the impeller blades. Also, what is your venting set-up (full description from stove to termination cap) and how do you clean it?

Once I start burning I can check that out, I didn't take readings on it at the end of last year.

I haven't fully removed the combustion blower since I replaced it in 08, I can do that. I've got a 3" flexible stainless pipe going up inside my normal chimney pipe ~12' if I had to guess off hand. The pellet exhaust is an open hole at the top inside the normal chimney cap/hat. As mentioned above when I clean the exhaust I disconnect the stove on the inside and hook up a shop vac, then use a 3" brush from the top.

Thoughts on the blowers shutting down while the stove is hot still?

 

[pods8]

If your entire stove is totally clean and ash free as it seems to be, I would suspect the temperature sensors that tell the control unit when to turn them off, or the control unit itself.

With the combined feed problem and blower shutdown prematurely the common thing in my mind keeps coming back to the control box (its the older grey style which I've heard had issues). If it was just one or the other I'd be looking much more heavily at the components themselves.

I would remove your combustion motor it is more then likely real dity.. I remove mine and clean after ever ton and i'm amazed at how dirty it is.

That is certainly something I can and will do in the next couple weeks when I give it the fall cleaning. I will mention though since I have an insert, when I yank it out to sweep the exhaust I also vacuum the exhaust blower compartment from the rear so that should get most of the loose stuff in there too, however that isn't to say there isn't any caked on stuff.

However I still have the premature shutdown issue.

 

[slls]

Call your dealer, some are able to test a control box in store.

 

[imacman]

.....I will mention though since I have an insert, when I yank it out to sweep the exhaust I also vacuum the exhaust blower compartment from the rear so that should get most of the loose stuff in there too, however that isn't to say there isn't any caked on stuff.....

Just running a vacuum in from the back of the exhaust pipe is NOT good enough....the blower vanes can get a build-up of carbon/baked on ash, and reduce airflow through the stove.

Remove it, wirebrush until you see shiny metal, and then you might consider spraying the fins with graphite....seems to help keep the fins cleaner longer, and the ash/carbon that does stick comes off easier during the next cleaning.

www.grainger.com/Grainger/CRC-Dry-Graphite-Lube-4JB39?Pid=search

 

[pods8]

All well and good cleaning ideas but I think we're getting a tad of tunnel vision. I've got overfeeding AND premature blower shutdown issues.

Over feeding can be dirty unit, pellet moisture content, control box, etc.

Premature blower shutdown: Temp sensors and control unit are all I can think of, anyone know of anything else? If not due to the overfeeding problem as well I really keep suspecting the control unit regardless of how clean/not clean the unit tends to be (by the way when I started having issues last year and after a heavy cleaning it really didn't make even a little improvement).

 

[tjnamtiw]

One thing that you said in your original post that jumped out at me was that at the end of the season you really cleaned out all the holes in the burn pot. You have to do that every time you scrape out the pot or a couple of times a week. The big holes rarely get clogged but the 8 small ones need a lot more attention. That's where you get the nice blue flame from. If you have a lazy flame, you are going to not burn off all the pellets. I use a .32 caliber bore brush and a bent gun rod.

CHECK CONTROL BOX FEED TIMES
*HIGH ------- (2.2 SECOND ON TIME)
*MEDIUM -- (1.6 SECOND ON TIME)
*LOW --------(0.9 SECOND ON TIME)

Your cleanout plate on the bottom of the firepot could also not be closing all the way or it may be hanging down too far. Take out the ash pan and look at the plate. The side opposite the hinge should not be hanging down anymore than the thickness of a dime. Too much gap and you'll get a lazy flame.

Assuming your exhaust pipe is clear, maybe your exhaust blower is giving up the ghost again or like someone else said, the blades are REALLY dirty. Also, on HIGH your flame just be jumping up about 4" out of the burn pot for the correct feed rate and be quite lively.

On shutdown, I BELIEVE, that the exhaust blower is on a timer and the convection blower, of course, is controlled by the snap disc.

Lastly, don't know about the Blazer pellets, but I'd try a few different brands before I stocked up on 2 more tons. High ash content will also kill your performance.

 

[pods8]

No I start off the season by cleaning everything well, including the burn pot holes. I'll also clean then out as needed during the season and a throughout cleaning as soon as a problem arises, including the burn pot holes, is my first course of action. I use a piece of copper wire and a screw to scrap the holes out, I should check my gun kit, I probably have a spare brush for a caliber I don't use.

I've never looked at the ash plate gap, it seems fairly friction fit by feel but I'll make sure its good. The weather is actually going to be cool this weekend so I could do some run testing and not sweat ourselves out (it was 80 last weekend).

I'll pull the fan and take a picture/clean it.

I'd suspect the blower by default has a minimum run time but I'd assume that wouldn't start until the convection blower has been turned off by it's snap disk first to ensure the unit is cooled down. I could have sworn that is how it used to run for me where as at the end of last year I want to say that both blowers would shut down at the same time after 15min or so since the thermostat stopped calling for heat which seemed premature to me.

I've stocks the 2T already. ;p However I've burned 2T of Blazer each winter for the last 4 winters. I'm sure there are higher end pellets out there but I've never had any real issue running them in my stove. The tail end of last year was the first time I started having excess ash problems like this. Both of last years pellets were bought on the same day so they could be different lots but the likelihood is less. The only other variant from there is if one picked up moisture content over the winter but again I haven't had issues with that in the past.

Anyways I'll clean/test run it in the cooler weather we're having and report back.

 

[smalltown]

pods8 another thing you could check rather easily that I found on my Castile last season. Normally the door is closed when you pull the clean-out rod. While cleaning with the door open I wanted to empty the burn pot so I pulled the rod a few times and realized that the burn pot was moving each time I pulled the clean out rod. The bolts securing the burn pot had somehow loosened.

Also wouldn't hurt to verify that your air intake on the bottom is not clogged. (although these stoves aren't air tight anyway)

Finally if you are going to pull the combustion fan get yourself a gasket before hand as the old one will most likely rip apart.

 

[kilbury]

I would look at and test your thermocouple. That can make your stove do some unusual things such as what your talking about.

 

[pods8]

I would look at and test your thermocouple. That can make your stove do some unusual things such as what your talking about.

By testing it should I take millivolt readings at the terminals or something? If so do you know what the numbers are?

 

[kilbury]

First remove the ceramic cover that slides over it in the firepot and made sure the ends of the two wires have a ball of solder on them still, if not the TC is bad. After that check, yes, take readings at the opposite end of the TC where it connects to the junction box with the red and yellow wires. Heat the end in the pot with a torch or lighter, reading should come up to 15mv dc in 30 seconds or so. You can also light the stove and watch the red and green lights on the control box to make sure they come on in the proper sequence and stay on.

 

[pods8]

Sounds good, I'll add it to my list. Hoping to clean and test run it this weekend while it's a bit cooler. Probably have a few more weeks till heat is really going to be used.

 

[pods8]

Well all thanks for making sure I cleaned and tested out a couple things before running out and getting a control box. No clue if cleaning, reseating the thermocouple ceramic (see below), or just having fresh pellets made the difference but after a test run for an hour or so this weekend it seemed to be performing well.


So for starters I did my normal exhaust sweep with my shop vac connected on the bottom and me sweeping from above, here are pics of the arrangement I am working with:

After that I sucked out the back of the stove and then pulled the exhaust blower as recommended. It had some build up but honestly I don't think it highly problematic in my eyes:

After cleaning it up:

Picture of the thermocouple, bulb looks intact. I did notice the ceramic wasn't seated on the bulb all the way so I slipped that back down.

The fire pot got cleaned out well, the bottom is seated flush (no visible gap). The biggest area of accumulation was on top of the tubes, I cleaned a bunch of crap out from up there. Not sure if that was the cause of my problems or if the poor burning I was getting on the last 1/2T of last year stuck all the stuff up there. Anyways it's cleaned up now.

So with all the cleaning, reseating the ceramic, and fresh pellets here's the burn on setting medium which I'm happy with. The thermocouple lit up the LEDs as expected. Only thing to note is the blowers shut down with the green LED still lit, I think that's just the way it is now that i think about it but it'd be nice if the stove used some temperature inputs and not just a timer to shut them down to ensure a full burn.

 

[kilbury]

If the tc isn't seated ask the way into the cover it could cause problems, the convection blower is controlled by a snap disc sensor.

 

[ablejoy]

Whats with the holes in the chimney cap ? also looked like your stove was pretty dirty

 

[pods8]

Whats with the holes in the chimney cap ? also looked like your stove was pretty dirty

No idea, that way when I moved in. Haven't had any bird issues or anything so I haven't bothered to source a new one.

At the end of the season the stove got really dirty because it was burning so chitty and I just decided to limp it through the last of the bags.

 

[DexterDay]

BTW. Its better to make your "Fall" cleaning. A "Spring" cleaning. Better to knock it out while everything is fresh in your mind. Also spray the inside of the stove with Pam cooking spray or go all out and paint it. This will prevent any rust or. Corrosion.

 

[hurtback]

I have found that the shaded pole type of motor will slow down over time (especially when hot) and it will seem like the pot is overfilling and or full of glowing pellets.
possably the windings get hot and start to short or it dosent produce the megnetic field it did when new and it just dosent have the gusto to drive the air needed especially on high
the low air flow cannot clean out small coals and keeps the pellets in the pot longer and cannot burn them fast enough. This causes lazy flame, soot, dirty windows, and black sooty pipe like you have.
After replacement the inside of pipe and blower blades will be almost a white color when burning properly.
I replace with the fasco u21b type 3.3 inch 3000 rpm motor.