Quadrafire santa fe not feeding pellets

[tjnamtiw]

the igniter does not need to turn on or heat up to make the feed motor come on the igniter obviously needs to work to make the stove start but it has no baring on the feed motor function.

I know what you're saying, Stoveguy, but the logic diagram says differently. I too don't know how it would know that the igniter had power unless there is a sensing logic on the board that has to see voltage to the igniter to enable the voltage feed to the feed motor. Obviously, in the voltage readings, this is what's happening. No igniter voltage and no feed motor input voltage. I could write the circuit logic to do that. In fact, I've been playing around with Cubloc ladder logic to replace our control box and give more troubleshooting information.

 

[stoveguy13]

but the logic diagram says differently

That is not a logic digram. That page you posted came out of a training book from a quad training for the dealers that is more of the process that takes place when the stove starts. I have worked on quad stoves for a long time and can tell you for sure the igniter has no baring on on the feed motor and if you look at the box for the feed motor it confirms that

 

[55chevy]

Guys,

Thanks for the info, (especially the diagram) I just looked at the last 2 posts tonight.

The igniter reads about 37 ohms. If I wanted to test it would I hook it to 120 VAC? I did that with the auger and it worked.

So here is what I did tonight.

I used contact cleaner.

I took my Ohm meter and checked for continuity from the fingers of the control board to where the diagram shows the connection. Absolutely all of the connections seem intact.

I plugged the stove in and it cycled up Board did the cycles with the blue light blinking, The combustion fan comes on. Red light calling for heat is on. No feed, no igniter.

So for grins I decided to unplug the stove turn the thermostat down and plugged the stove back in with the thermostat not calling for heat. I waited for the combustion fan to stop running (about 5 minutes). Then I turned the thermostat up so the call light came on but the combustion blow does not start.

So I only get the combustion fan when I first plug the stove in. So I guess I am stuck at box 2 after the initial startup. Not sure if this helps. I am just out of ideas


Thanks for all the help.

 

[tjnamtiw]

That is not a logic digram. That page you posted came out of a training book from a quad training for the dealers that is more of the process that takes place when the stove starts. I have worked on quad stoves for a long time and can tell you for sure the igniter has no baring on on the feed motor and if you look at the box for the feed motor it confirms that

I'm not throwing stones at you, Stoveguy. I respect your opinion and the fact that you have worked on Quads for a long time. The diagram I posted was downloaded years ago off of this site and used as a flow chart to explain the sequence. Maybe logic diagram was the wrong word. As I said in my other post, I didn't really see how the igniter being on or off would be seen by the feed motor circuit. The fact that both get no voltage but the control box works in another Quad points to something external to the control box. I'm not sure what box you're referring to when you say 'the box for the feed motor'. Neither one of my stoves has a separate box for the feed motor.

The latest info from 55Chevy points back to the control box, doesn't it? How many flashes of the blue light do you get??? When you put your control box in your friend's stove, did it start up and build a fire or did it just run the combustion blower when you turned it on, 55Chevy?

 

[stoveguy13]

Neither one of my stoves has a separate box for the feed motor.

i was referring to the box on the chart you posted. No problem i dont think you are throwing stones.

If your Combustion blower doesnt turn on when you push your thermostat up that wont let anything start you have a problem in your wiring harness i would start by checking power to the combustion blower . let us know what you get for voltage.

 

[PutnamJct]

Is it possible that the vacuum line is clogged, thus not kicking on the auger to feed pellets? I know you've gone round and round with this thing, maybe the vacuum is the problem as opposed to it being wiring.......
Also, before this problem came up, has there been any changes from the last time it ran correctly? (stove moved, part changed, etc..)

 

[55chevy]

When I put it in my friends stove it started up and feed pellets. I did not wait for it to light. Had I realized this was not going to be simple fix (broken wire, etc) I would have let it go through the whole cycle to make sure. My friend also brought his control box over to my stove and his acting the same as mine (no feed). I agree everything points to the control box which is why I did the swap (both ways). I may bring my box back over to my friends stove and recheck to make sure.

To answer the question about the lights on the control board. I powered it up this morning and this is what I see.

The second I plug it in I get a quick red flash followed by 6 blue blinks pause few seconds then 6 blue blinks. It does the blue blinks 7 times. (combustion blower is running the whole time)

My friends board had seven blinks (I am pretty sure) but he had a newer model board (he replaced his control board a few years ago).

I am guessing that the blinks are just the board go through it self test? Probably newer firmware had another test?

I was a test technician for 5 years and an electrical engineer for the last 20, It just kills me that something that looks as simple as this has me stumped!

I know when I figure it out (or worse have someone else do it for me) I am going to kick myself

 

[stoveguy13]

the blue blinks are the setting on the board when you plug the board in the blower comes on because it thinks the stove has lost power. try jumping the the thermostat at the stove. dont use the current wires. if the blower doesnt come on when you turn the thermostat either there is a bad wire or the thermostat connection is bad.

 

[55chevy]

Will try jumping the thermostat, I think I already tried that but not sure, always worth another try. I do get the call light when I turn the thermostat up.

 

[55chevy]

OK, tried jumping thermostat. Call light comes on, no combustion fan, no feed.

The fact the combustion fan comes on when I plug it says it has a good connection and it works.

So are you saying the 7.84 dc volts I measure at the on thermostat terminal is not get to the control board?

When I jump the terminals to goes to zero.

 

[stoveguy13]

how did you jump it?

 

[55chevy]

Piece of #12 copper wire.

 

[stoveguy13]

check the wire on the inside of the stove that connect to the thermostat wires to the junction box and also check the ground wire.

 

[55chevy]

will do

 

[tjnamtiw]

As an aside, the 7 flashes on your buddy's box just means it's set for an extra 10% feed rate

 

[tjnamtiw]

Looking again at your voltages and the schematic, you should have some voltage at either 4 or 6 if you change the feed rate rocker switch. If you see no voltage with any setting, that might be a clue. Just grasping at straws.

 

[55chevy]

OK gentlemen,

Thanks for all the info, this is great. After I fixed the thermostat hook up and the stove started to feed pellets and it fired up I thought I was golden.

What happened is I moved onto a new problem. The convection fan never came on. It took a little while for me to realize the stove was oddly quiet.

So with some investigation here is what I found. The snap disc did short when it got hot like it was suppose to. Before the disc shorts I did have 120AC on the control board side. When it does short it goes to 0 but no fan. Turned the stove off and hooked the fan directly to 120 with my test cord and fan runs fine.

took the control board out of the clear plastic case (so I could get to the pins), plugged it in and powered the stove up. 120 AC at pin 11. Jumped the snap disc for the convection fan voltage at the pin goes to 0 no fan.

Thought maybe the fan is putting too much of a load on the circuit. Either this or for some reason the board can not handle the load. Checked the resistance of the fan , about 8 ohms, Is that normal?

Does anybody know where to voltage for the fan comes from. Hard to follow the etch since it is internal. Wondering if there is a component that goes bad with these symptoms.

I can take my control board over to my friend's stove and see it works there. Since my original problem was pellet feed and it did that on his stove we did not let it go until the convection fan came on.

 

[tjnamtiw]

If the voltage drops to zero on the downstream side of the snap disc, that means that current is flowing through to ground. You should be seeing the 120 volts (measured from there to GROUND) if the current is going to the motor. Since the motor works, I'd be looking for a short. You WILL see zero volts ACROSS the snap disc. You are measuring to a good ground, correct?

Oh, love your car, by the way!

 

[55chevy]

Just to make sure I had a good common I went back to the wiring diagram and measured the voltage using pin 5 on the control board as my common. I even ohmed pin 5 back to the stove plug common prong to make sure I had a direct connection (0 ohms). So I start the stove I see 120V AC at snap disc 1. I jump snap 1 and voltage goes to zero (no fan). Voltage is also zero measured at pin 11 of control board.

So I unplug the stove and measure resistance from pin 11 to pin 5 with snap disc jumped. This should give me the whole circuit. Resistance is 7.2 ohms. I get the same reading going just across the motor. If I did my math correctly that would be a little over 15 amps which seems pretty high. Could be with an AC motor that is just the surge current and it changes once running. I am used to digital circuits and DC. Still seems high to me. Probably some resistance on the board to cut current back.

One other thing, when I short the snap disc I see a tiny spark so there is a little current flow. Spark is more like what you would get with 9 volt battery not 110AC.

Just going through this in my head (with you folks) to make sure I am not talking myself into something. I keep thinking that while I was working on my other problems I messed this up and caused the problem.

The voltage reading goes to zero when it tries to turn the fan on so I would guess the control board has some way of limiting current? If not I would have smoke and fire. They probably did that instead of going directly to the snap disk for safety.

Does anybody know what component Pin 5 goes to? Hard to follow the internal etch? Looks like it might go to the coil but I have not checked.


Car was a multi year project. Started with a very rough (no floors, no interior, No drivetrain) car and did a frame off in my garage.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Disconnect your convection blower put your voltmeter set to a scale that can handle AC above 120 volts.

Start the stove without the #1 snap disc jumped, tell us the reading, when the snap disc closes tell us the reading.

 

[55chevy]

Smokey,

Will do right now. So far I get 120AC with the snap disc 1 jumped fan not connected. Waiting for the temp to come up.


The post below was typed in this afternoon and I forgot to post. Not sure if that makes a difference but more information.


I chased the etch from pin 5 on the control board. to the Triad (yellow transformer) pin 1. I also traced the power form pin 12 to Triad pin 4. Does not seem to be anything else between the 2 pins. I pull up the diagram of the triad (below). Pins 1 and 4 are the primary coil. I measured the resistance across the 1 to 4 and got 376 ohms.

Put the board back in power up the stove with Snap1 shorted. Pin 5 of the control board 0 volts, pin 1 of Triad 0 volts, pin 4 of Triad 5 volts. So all of the voltage is dropped across the triad since it is a much higher resistance than the 7.2 ohms on the fan motor. question, is 376 ohms too high or is that right and the fan should run the lower current

 

[55chevy]

Update, with fan unhooked snap disc 1 jumped 120 AC with the snap disc open or closed.

Just for grins I plugged in the fan and it went to 0.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Well you might be looking at a Triac that is bad or that fan isn't exactly right. You say the fan works if you put line voltage directly to it, looks like it is too much for the controller to handle or there is a short in the wiring from the connectors to the motor.

ETA: Could you reverse the connection to the fan.

 

[tjnamtiw]

This link talks about the control box and parts replacement. Might be of some help. Sure sounds like a Triac is bad or like I said earlier, a possible short (which really should be popping fuses). Time to call Mouser?

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/castile-auger-motor-wont-shut-off-clear-control-box.103929/

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

file:///C:/Users/Tom/Documents/fireplace/parts%20for%20quadrafire%20clear%20box.htm

This link talks about the control box and parts replacement. Might be of some help.

Linky no worky.