Quadrafire's orders backed up?

[jc8367]

I originally wanted to buy a Harman but my local dealer said he won't receive shipment until Feb '09. He had 25 people to call back that had given deposits over the last 2 months to give them the bad news. My next choice is a Quadrafire, does anybody now if they are experiencing the same problem with filling orders?

 

[webbie]

IN short, yes.

New orders at some dealers are already into 2009.

BUT, there are dealers who are scheduled to get more than others, based on their order history (and how loud they yapp, etc.).....so try 2 or 3 dealers and see if their is any difference.

 

[slls]

Yes, Quadra is having a problem, no idea when I will get mine, was told 8 weeks. From other sources the dates for Quads in my area keep getting pushed ahead, now maybe October.

 

[hellday]

I quess i was one of the lucky one's. i Placed a order with a dealer on 7/18 and received a call on 7/24 to schedule a install date of Sept. 8th. I quess only time will tell if they change it or not.. I just hope everything goes as planned.. I do wish everyone luck on getting theres on time for the winter. The dealer i went through was rated as a high seller on the quadra-fires site.. Good Luck Everyone..

 

[slls]

I just checked my dealer rating, rated tops. I ordered mine in June.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

trust me, everybody's backed up , we at ESW are running at about 4-6 weeks to fill orders at this time, which isnt too bad IMHO but the 2 week turnaround is not going to happen with virtually every manufacturer out there , its simply one of those years when the whole world wants a pellet stove and you simply cannot prepare for it by building way ahead, some years that look like they will be banner years dont pan out that way for whatever reason , which would leave the manufacturer and in a lot of cases dealers with overages in stock they have to sit on , that can be a ton of money invested that cannot be readily recouped. not to mention having to pay taxes on the unsold inventory.

the industry as a whole is working at capacity right now filling orders as fast as they can , but it takes time, especially when as a consumer you want a well built up to standard unit. if you have a unit coming and have a reasonably accurate (firm) date, stay pat on it , its too early to panic just yet , keep in contact with your dealer periodically and ensure that your unit is indeed on schedule, and if its pushed back a week or two ,its ok, as long as it gets there within a reasonable time frame of the initial delivery date

 

[in-control]

I purchase a Qaudra Fire Mt.Vernon, two weeks ago, and was told that it should arrive January 09'. This is from one of the best dealers in Central Mass., 14 years in business. I am hoping that they are just playing it safe and telling people that. We shall see.

 

[MCPO]

So even Quadrafire can`t deliver stove`s on time and they didn`t even have a software glitch.
Harman isn`t looking too bad after all .

 

[jtp10181]

According to the post before the software problem did not cause delays at Harman, it just cause acknowledgments to go out automatically with inaccurate delivery dates.

Anyway.... as Mike said, every manufacturer is going to fall behind this year. It is 80 deg and Humid here in WI and we have a lot of intertest in wood and pellet units already. Most people around here are on Nat Gas or LP in the country, very few oil burners left.

 

[MCPO]

[quote author="jtp10181" date="1217303394"]According to the post before the software problem did not cause delays at Harman, it just cause acknowledgments to go out automatically with inaccurate delivery dates.

And as I said before , even without software to blame it one Quad purchasers are being fed innacurate delivery dates too.
According to Slls post not everyone is getting their stove on time as promised either.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

I had my Quadrafite 4100-I installed last month. Now don't get me wrong, I mean right, I mean I was just lucky to be pushed by my wife to do something about the old chimney smell from our old slammer. The smell is mostly gone now, the cleaning, much by me, and the sealing of the chimney with the SS liner seems to have put things "right" and it got me a new Insert before they became an endangered species.

 

[globewyre]

I was triyng to decide on a p68 or MT vernon AE. I found a dealer with a mount vernon in stock. Gave them a 1/3 deposite and set a install date. I got it instead of risking a october delivery date for a Harman p68. Plus the 2 dealer with harmans wanted 875 for venting and 875 for labor plus 400 for hearth pad. I think the install schedules are going to be a problem with dealers in the fall and winter. When I shopped for wood stove last November shops were backed up with installs and measurements till December and January.

If you are installing yourself I agree about checking in PA for pellet stove inventory. I talked to a store that would ship me a harman for less that I could buy in NJ. I was worried about installing it and warrenty issues.

 

[MCPO]

I was triyng to decide on a p68 or MT vernon AE. I found a dealer with a mount vernon in stock. Gave them a 1/3 deposite and set a install date. I got it instead of risking a october delivery date for a Harman p68. Plus the 2 dealer with harmans wanted 875 for venting and 875 for labor plus 400 for hearth pad. I think the install schedules are going to be a problem with dealers in the fall and winter. When I shopped for wood stove last November shops were backed up with installs and measurements till December and January.

If you are installing yourself I agree about checking in PA for pellet stove inventory. I talked to a store that would ship me a harman for less that I could buy in NJ. I was worried about installing it and warrenty issues.

$875 for venting and $875 for labor plus $400 for a hearth pad sounds like a total rip off unless the install is absolutely out of the ordinary and the hearth pad inlaid with precious stones.
I`d tell him to stick it .

 

[terryjd98]

Installs at every stove store I checked stoves at had a flat install fee. $750.00 was the lowest up to $999.00 for an easy straight install plus the price of pipe that I would use which would run between $600.00 to $700.00. Install is an adapter 3 inch to 4 inch, wall thimble, T outside, pipe 4 feet up then the elbow with a screen in it pointing down, think called the termanation. The install would also include the WETT certificate.
To me this sounds like way too much money for an install. Not sure on the price of pipe I haven't checked to see if stores like Home Depot are cheaper then the streight stove stores I shopped at but have a feeling they will be.
I am going to install the stove myself. If follow the directions in the manual its pretty straight forward. The dealer I ended up buying the Enviro Evolution from was good. I am just a few miles outside of his service area but will do warranty work if needed on the stove but he doubts I will need it, says the stove will go longer without problems then warranty lasts. He would have installed the stove if i wanted but would cost just a bit extra for gas since I am outside his service area, he is 60 miles away. He told me to go ahead and do the install myself but did say to go to a 4 inch run because they will work better. Answered all my questions on how to do the install. Seemed very honest, especially since he showed me the faxes from Harman he just got in showing a June 09 delivery date on his orders now. He never tried to get me on a waiting list like other dealers did. I will be posting a couple of questions about the install though I am sure.
Anyways back to the install prices they sure seem high to me, I could see paying somebody $50.00, $75.0 an hour to do an install. Or maybe paying a company $100.00 an hour to send a couple of men out to do the install. Even if they took 3 hours to do an install that would still only be $300.00, men working for the company probably lucky to be making $15.00 an hour. These $750,00 and up straight install prices these companys charge seem like a ripoff IMHO.

 

[humpin iron]

I don't understand why everyone on these blogs are so against stove shops. I've been in biz for 30 years. Is my knowledge worth anything? My liability insurance is $1800 a month. The gas bill for my trucks is $2600 a month. My service techs make 20-25 per hr, plus a company trk, plus two weeks vacation, plus bennies. When you call my shop one of 20 employees will answer the phone. Is none of this a value to you people?
You guys go to work to make money, why can't we?

 

[MCPO]

I don't understand why everyone on these blogs are so against stove shops. I've been in biz for 30 years. Is my knowledge worth anything? My liability insurance is $1800 a month. The gas bill for my trucks is $2600 a month. My service techs make 20-25 per hr, plus a company trk, plus two weeks vacation, plus bennies. When you call my shop one of 20 employees will answer the phone. Is none of this a value to you people?
You guys go to work to make money, why can't we?

Sure your knowledge is worth something and no one should have any qualms about paying a skilled service tech a good wage similar to what you do but I think we are talking stove installations here and not the needs of a skilled service technician .
We also resent the installation costs and mark up of materials that closely resembles a total rip off by some dealers. Some dealers are just merciless and giving the industry a bad reputation and taking advantage of it all especially during this stove boom.

It`s no secret that installing a pellet stove doesn`t require any special skills or tools above what the average person or most homeowners already have. There are no requirements for a license /certification either simply because there is little need for one.
Personally I think $25 an hour plus vacation and bennies for limited skills delivering and setting up hot tubs and stoves is rather high pay that approaches the pay schedules of unionized tradesmen who are required to serve 4-5 yr apprenticeships along with hundreds of documented hours of specific schooling and in the end a stringent state examination for state certification.
There has to be very few installations that would take 2 men more than 4 hrs to deliver a stove and vent it.
$750 for labor and $750 for parts is a ripoff by anyone`s standards.

 

[in-control]

I'm not!

I am paying $500 for my stove, Mt.Vernon AE insert, to be installed. I am also paying $150 for the dealer to do all of the site work and permitting. Why - because I want it done right and once - I now look at this as a serious 24x7 on appliance that is basically a fire in my house. I do not want to worry about something going wrong and jepordize the safety of my family. Which is why I paid the professionals to do the job. It is also why I went to a good dealer that was recommended to me by their customers, friends of mine. I look at these costs as cheap insurance and peace of mind. I am also going to pay them $300/year to service the system before each season. While that may sound like alot it is really not considering what I pay for a service contract on an oil burner and now won't have to pay $300/yr to get my chimney swept.

 

[DiggerJim]

I don't understand why everyone on these blogs are so against stove shops. I've been in biz for 30 years. Is my knowledge worth anything? My liability insurance is $1800 a month. The gas bill for my trucks is $2600 a month. My service techs make 20-25 per hr, plus a company trk, plus two weeks vacation, plus bennies. When you call my shop one of 20 employees will answer the phone. Is none of this a value to you people?
You guys go to work to make money, why can't we?

I don't think it's "against stove shops" as much as it is perceived value for the cost. People do the math in their head and say, 750 buys me most of my year's worth of pellets...it's 250/hr if it takes 3 hrs to do the job...it's a third the cost of the stove...oh, and add $400 for the pipe, etc. etc. etc.

To put it in perspective, how would you feel if you bought a new refrigerator and it was $750 to install it and hook up the ice maker (run a line into the basement, tap the water supply pipe, etc.)? And by the way, that'll be an extra $200 for the power cord and $400 for the ice maker connection tubing. I don't know anyone who charges that kind of rate so that's the kind of comparison going thru people's minds.

Taking your $ example above, if we assume it's just for the delivery/install crew, and you make $0 on the stove sale to support that (all profit for the stove going to support the store & operational overhead there), then your liability insurance is $37.50 for the install, $108 for gas, and 75-150 for the techs (depending on 1 or 2 for the job). This assumes you have them running 6 days a week and 2 installs a day. That's $350 on the high end with benefits included for the job. If your truck fuel cost was for all of your trucks and not 2600/truck/month and your liability insurance was for the organization and not for the one crew I illustrated here, then that cost is probably well under $200. So, it means you're making a 3 or 400%+ margin on that business. That's what gets people scratching their heads & talking about doing it themselves.

Add to that the stories people have about the competency of their dealers/installers and it just makes the whole $750 flat charge smack of the same kind of profiteering people complain about Exxon/Mobil.

(My stove shop swore I couldn't get a pellet stove insert installed in a prefab fireplace - told me it was against the law, couldn't be done, would cause a fire hazard, would void the warranty, etc. I asked why Harman, Breckwell, and others all spiked out directions for how to do that very thing in their manuals and my building inspector said it was okay...he kept arguing and when I told him it was okay, I'd just consider other options, he went off and actually looked it up...and agreed that perhaps it was legal, recommended, and could possibly be done...just not by his shop. Should I trust any other words of wisdom to come out of his mouth?)

It may not be the way you operate, but you will find customer perceptions won't have benefit of your inside information on how much it costs to run your business and simply reflects their belief of the cost/benefit. If you're lucky, they'll believe the benefit is worth the cost and continue to do business with you, recommend you to friends...if not, they may either go down the street or pay grudgingly and talk about how they were shafted to all their friends. It's a lot like car dealers & all the add-ons they throw onto the price of a car...sometimes they're justified, sometimes not.

Jim

 

[humpin iron]

My avg installer has 3-4 years experiance. Goes through a one year apprenticeship at my shop. Must have an NFI certification. The avg tech in my shop will attend over 60 hours of training per year.
The education budget for our shop is over 10,000 dollars per year.
Think about it we put fire in peoples homes. At my shop we install about 93% of the stoves we sell.
Anybody with a sawzall and a chaulk gun can put a stove in and then there are professionals, just like many other trades.

 

[cac4]

My avg installer has 3-4 years experiance. Goes through a one year apprenticeship at my shop. Must have an NFI certification. The avg tech in my shop will attend over 60 hours of training per year.
The education budget for our shop is over 10,000 dollars per year.
Think about it we put fire in peoples homes. At my shop we install about 93% of the stoves we sell.
Anybody with a sawzall and a chaulk gun can put a stove in and then there are professionals, just like many other trades.

all great things, for those that need it.

at the same time, though, it doesn't guarantee perfection, either.

I will soon be installing a stove in my house...very straight-forward situation, that doesn't require that level of skill and experience. However, I may wind up adding a dedicated outlet for it. not that it "needs" to be isolated, or that'll need that much electricity, but in the room where its going, there are too many high-use outlets on the same circuit. (and it should have been obvious, even when the house was only a bare shell, that the living room and kitchen shouldn't share so many outlets). I suspect that if I just plug in a 300w stove, I'll be blowing the breaker left and right. And this circuit was designed and installed by a master electrician, who did years of schooling and apprenticeship, studied and passed licensing exams, carries all sorts of insurance...etc, etc, etc....passed building code muster and inspection, all proper and legal...and he did it wrong. and now, I have to fix it. It isn't the first time, and I'm sure it won't be the last.

 

[stejus]

I purchase a Qaudra Fire Mt.Vernon, two weeks ago, and was told that it should arrive January 09'. This is from one of the best dealers in Central Mass., 14 years in business. I am hoping that they are just playing it safe and telling people that. We shall see.

I went to this same dealer in Central MA this past weekend and looked at the Castile. They told me if i put the order in that day I could have it by March 2009. I went home and found a dealer near where i work and purchased over the phone. It will be arriving in their next shipment in August. They told me every unit on the truck has been sold and this was the last one so i was limited. Lucky for me it was the model and coler i wanted.

 

[MCPO]

My avg installer has 3-4 years experiance. Goes through a one year apprenticeship at my shop. Must have an NFI certification. The avg tech in my shop will attend over 60 hours of training per year.
The education budget for our shop is over 10,000 dollars per year.
Think about it we put fire in peoples homes. At my shop we install about 93% of the stoves we sell.
Anybody with a sawzall and a chaulk gun can put a stove in and then there are professionals, just like many other trades.

all great things, for those that need it.

at the same time, though, it doesn't guarantee perfection, either.

this circuit was designed and installed by a master electrician, who did years of schooling and apprenticeship, studied and passed licensing exams, carries all sorts of insurance...etc, etc, etc....passed building code muster and inspection, all proper and legal...and he did it wrong. and now, I have to fix it. It isn't the first time, and I'm sure it won't be the last.

Heh,heh,heh. That outlet installation certainly didn`t need the skills of a master electricians skill either and I would think any first year apprentice could have done it correctly (but not legally) and possibly even a savvy homeowner could have done a decent job.
Yup, degrees ,certifications, etc won`t guarante a good job but the chances should be much better .

 

[jtp10181]

Well... I can't stand behind it anymore. Just got notice today, a Mt Vernon AE Insert in Black we had setup for install on Monday won't be coming until June, 2009 (maybe). We had this unit ordered over a month ago. There were 3 Sienna Bronze units in stock so we switched them over to that.

 

[cac4]

Heh,heh,heh. That outlet installation certainly didn`t need the skills of a master electricians skill either and I would think any first year apprentice could have done it correctly (but not legally) and possibly even a savvy homeowner could have done a decent job.
Yup, degrees ,certifications, etc won`t guarante a good job but the chances should be much better .

yes, the chances should be much better. And I don't mean to disparage "humpin iron's" crew, or their skills. I'm sure they're worth every penny they charge, and then some. Its just that...there ARE such people that can learn and do by reading directions. and there's a high concentration of them here, on this site, and others like it. thats what we "do". we mine for information. In my experience, this seems to be an uncommon personality trait. (I think thats why I have a job, myself...I look things up for people who can't/don't want to.). that combined with the appropriate amounts of "time/money/skill/willingness" determine whether or not a person can or should "do it themselves". more money than time/motivation or skill? pay someone.

the wiring thing: it was a "new" house, built by a builder...who used his "subs" for the trade-work. They left the second floor unfinished, and I did everything up there. I put in lots of outlets, as many as I could possibly get away with, just for convenience. cost me around a buck a piece. But the electrician charges the builder some outrageous amount, like 50 or 100 bucks per. the result: bare-minimum outlets on the first floor, where its "busy". technically "ok"...but I still have to fix it.

 

[in-control]

I purchase a Qaudra Fire Mt.Vernon, two weeks ago, and was told that it should arrive January 09'. This is from one of the best dealers in Central Mass., 14 years in business. I am hoping that they are just playing it safe and telling people that. We shall see.

I went to this same dealer in Central MA this past weekend and looked at the Castile. They told me if i put the order in that day I could have it by March 2009. I went home and found a dealer near where i work and purchased over the phone. It will be arriving in their next shipment in August. They told me every unit on the truck has been sold and this was the last one so i was limited. Lucky for me it was the model and coler i wanted.

Lucky you! What dealer did you go to? It seems to me that alot of dealers are playing it safe and are not being given great info from the mfg's - I got a call yestuday from the site crew to start the preliminary work and permitting. I image the dealer will be fighting hard to get the inventory in ASAP as people put 1/2 down and can change their mind if they find a better deal @ another dealer. With Oil starting to decline in price the panic may also subside.