Question about dealers and repairs of their products

[Jakethepup]

When you purchase a stove from a dealer, and it requires repair does the dealer get paid by the company of the stove for making the repair, with time and travel. The reason for the question is every time I had a problem the dealer says he does not get payment for the repair or travel, I find that hard to swallow. This would be his second time for him to come here to repair the stove, however I have repaired it twice myself as he sent me the parts to repair it. I am kind of getting tired of doing repairs when I paid 4,000.00 for the stove and the install.

 

[webbie]

Generally speaking, the stove companies do not pay anywhere near the cost of repairing a stove. The exact policies will differ, but in general we are talking tiny payouts......including little or not travel time.

The next question which folks may have is why dealers would put up with this? Or why customers would?

Well, the original answer was easy. Most dealers stick with brands that have VERY little trouble and wood stoves...and even gas stoves....in general do not have nearly as many problems as pellet stoves. The reason is simple - with pellet stoves you have vastly more mechanical parts and systems, various brands of fuel, etc.

To take it even further - there are many manufacturers - including some VERY big and well known names (Jotul, Vermont Castings, etc.) who do not sell pellet stoves for reasons which include that they cannot "afford to"....meaning they could not provide the level of service which customers would expect out of those brands (in the case of VC this was probably more in the past).....and therefore their reputation might suffer. I know many large stove dealers who also choose not to meet the local demand for pellet stoves for the same reason. If they do not have a service crew, tech expertise, etc....then they are asking for trouble.

I guess it is worth noting what the actual costs are for a dealer to send a tech to a home. Let's say a 30 minute ride each way and an hour at the house - plus the time securing the parts, turning in the warranty claims, etc. My guess is that the actual cost to the dealer is $150-$200 and they might get paid $60.

Of course I am just throwing numbers around for discussion sake. But the truth is that just about ALL warranties on appliances are fairly poor these days. Even the good old GE stuff now usually gets them wanting your credit card number on the phone....in case the tech comes and nothing is really wrong - or if it was damage from misuse, etc.

Tough out there these days. But I do feel for you. In the ideal world we'd get full service with a smile for $4000 appliances.

 

[webbie]

Oh, I should also mention that a lot of warranties don't cover anything which is not specifically defects in material or workmanship. This may be a fine line - consider a auger jam.....probably not covered at all. Or some funky pellets causing the glass to get dirty - or wind problems with a vent not installed high enough, or on a bad side of the house - etc. etc.

 

[HD41]

The dealer has to build the cost of unreimbursed warranty into the price of the stove or he will not survive. We live in a time where it is fashionable seek the lowest price for our needs, demand maximum service, and use budget plans or pre buy deals in an attempt to smooth out monthly expenses. Although many of our things have become extremely reliable and virtually “maintenance free” extended warranties are bought to cover what isn’t covered just in case. While reasonably reliable, pellet stoves are far from maintenance free they will have events that require more than loading and cleaning. Most of these things can be done by the owner if he is willing and able to become his own technician. I don’t see much economy for those who must call a technician for stove repair work. This is especially true until the owner gets past the learning curve.

 

[crausch]

This is more related to warranties than pellet stoves, but I used to repair printers. Most of the work was for warranty with a well know printer manufacturer. Basically the repair parts were covered and 1 hour of repair time. If the repair was going to take longer, then we had to call it in and request additional time. You had to strongly justify the extra time or the extra time was not covered. The travel was not covered either. Simply the only thing generally covered was parts and 1 hour labor.

There was one other limitation that was part of the owners warranty...we had to show up within 24 hours of the request.

 

[hearthtools]

Manufactures have a set price they will pay for a TRUE warrantee call
$45 to $80
most do not pay for shipping to or from for the parts.
and the Paper work is a pain in the A$$ and takes a lot of time.
so I hardly ever did a warrantee claim
I try to educate the customer so we dont have silly service calls.
Normally if there is a problem with a stove you will see it in the first 30 minutes of use.

 

[Jakethepup]

I guess I should have clarified what the problems are, the igniter was stopped working blows the fuse, I have replaced it once myself, this will be the third igniter since the stove was installed in September of 2008. The stove is not on a thermostat, so it gets very little use, from the second one I installed it has been used to light the stove about 45 times since I replaced it. So I am concerned that sometime is causing the igniter to fail since this will be three since September of 2008. Also while the dealer was installing the insert he dented in part of the trim and promised he would come back and replace the door. It is not a small dent either because I bought a new stove not a used stove, so I think I am not asking too much to ask him to live up to his word that he would take care of the door. It has been now 6 months and no door, and he complained when I called and told him the igniter has stopped working yet again, and that when he did come bring the door he promised. It also has been three weeks since I called this dealer about the igniter and I have yet to get a phone call from him. I have myself also replaced the brushes in the fan motor, so I don’t think I am asking too much that he comes back see what is going on with these igniter problems, I know everything breaks, but with three of these things going out in this short time I just feel that something is going on, and a little above my ability to trouble shoot this regular occurring problem.

 

[MCPO]

When you purchase a stove from a dealer, and it requires repair does the dealer get paid by the company of the stove for making the repair, with time and travel. The reason for the question is every time I had a problem the dealer says he does not get payment for the repair or travel, I find that hard to swallow. This would be his second time for him to come here to repair the stove, however I have repaired it twice myself as he sent me the parts to repair it. I am kind of getting tired of doing repairs when I paid 4,000.00 for the stove and the install.

The pellet stove business has really got to be a tough business . A problematic stove can indeed cause a lot of hard feelings both ways especially when multiple service calls are involved. Seems nothing is cut and dry with a pellet stove with so many variables. Obviously the stove business isn`t alone or at all unique with regards to poor warranty practices.

Being a self employed electrician for many years , I am familiar with the sinking feeling you get when you get a call that requires your unpaid services to rectify something you worked on previously. However you must have consideration for the customer too and how he feels with a non working electrical circuit , device , etc. You are obligated by any standard of human decency to make things right for what you were hired for and trusted to do in the first place if you have any integrity at all . It`s absolutely mandatory to protect your good name and providing satisfaction is an important element to help secure future business as word of mouth is free advertisement. You can certainly depend on your customers willingness to tell others if he is taken care of. It`s human nature to brag about those who take good care of you.

 

[Lousyweather]

Agreed somewhat with Gio. The only problem being the subjectivity of what "being taken care of" really is. There certainly are problematic stoves, for instance the P68 that Dianac in New Hampshire has been having. She hasnt posted lately, so maybe it was rectified, maybe not. Dealers often fall short in the service areas as well, particularly when its the customer who "sets the bar" of what is good service and what isnt good service. The customer is always right, so to speak.

I do take exception to the comment though, that "its human nature to brag about those who take good care of you". That certainly isnt usually the case. In most cases, good service is expected, so it becomes the standard, and thats usually not touted by the customer (a myraid of studies done on this), BUT bad service is generally hollered often and loudly from the highest mountaintop. Good examples abound right here in this forum. Bad dealer stories are common, but where are the good ones? They are here to be sure, but they are miniscule compared to the bad service stories.

What does a dealer do with a customer who has unreasonable expectations, or who lacks the ambition to properly care for their stove? Yes, I know, "unreasonable expectations" is subjective, of course. If someone cant understand that they need to clean the stove and service it, what can the dealer do? Scream from the highest mountaintop about the customers lack of service? Nah, you dont hear that. Unlike the BBB (Better Business Bureau), there isnt a BCB (Better Customer Bureau). The customer who thinks cleaning the stove is emptying the ashes, and cant understand why the unit wont run now, even after being shown how to clean, or directed to cleaning sites (dont wanna get their hands dirty). The customer who tells you they wont pay for any work done on their stove thats out of warrantee?

Wont go on, but the sales/consumer relationship is a two-way street.

Flame away.

 

[MCPO]

Agreed somewhat with Gio. The only problem being the subjectivity of what "being taken care of" really is. There certainly are problematic stoves, for instance the P68 that Dianac in New Hampshire has been having. She hasnt posted lately, so maybe it was rectified, maybe not. Dealers often fall short in the service areas as well, particularly when its the customer who "sets the bar" of what is good service and what isnt good service. The customer is always right, so to speak.

I do take exception to the comment though, that "its human nature to brag about those who take good care of you". That certainly isnt usually the case. In most cases, good service is expected, so it becomes the standard, and thats usually not touted by the customer (a myraid of studies done on this), BUT bad service is generally hollered often and loudly from the highest mountaintop. Good examples abound right here in this forum. Bad dealer stories are common, but where are the good ones? They are here to be sure, but they are miniscule compared to the bad service stories.

What does a dealer do with a customer who has unreasonable expectations, or who lacks the ambition to properly care for their stove? Yes, I know, "unreasonable expectations" is subjective, of course. If someone cant understand that they need to clean the stove and service it, what can the dealer do? Scream from the highest mountaintop about the customers lack of service? Nah, you dont hear that. Unlike the BBB (Better Business Bureau), there isnt a BCB (Better Customer Bureau). The customer who thinks cleaning the stove is emptying the ashes, and cant understand why the unit wont run now, even after being shown how to clean, or directed to cleaning sites (dont wanna get their hands dirty). The customer who tells you they wont pay for any work done on their stove thats out of warrantee?

Wont go on, but the sales/consumer relationship is a two-way street.

Flame away.

Oh yes, I think it`s a given that there are often circumstances and situations which can have consequences on a warranted product and are not the dealers responsibility and with pellet stoves probably more aptly so . However in the absence of any problem circumstances there is no such thing as a two way street. The dealer has a moral and legal obligation to correct any deficiencies in the product he sold to the consumer and to provide warranty service. This was never intended to be a two way street!

 

[Lousyweather]

Please note I stated the sales/consumer relationship is a two way street...which it is. The consumer agrees to hand over their hard-earned cash to purchase a product AND its warrantee. The dealer accepts the implied contact when he/she accepts the money for the purchase. The dealer or manufacturer has a legal obligation to provide warrantee service as per the warrantee. Which is why its SO important to read the warrantee prior to purchasing. As for deficiencies in the product, its certainly the dealer or manufacturer who should correct any and all of those deficiencies....as long as they are deficiencies. The auger motor wont run? A deficiency. The combustion fan is squeeling? A deficiency. This dang pellet stove wont heat my 4,000 square foot home to the 85 degrees that I expect it to? This is NOT a deficiency.

 

[Jakethepup]

Since I posted this, the dealer has done nothing to correct the problem I have, and has not even called me back. This has been on-going since the first of March. I am going to give him this week and if I have not heard anything from him I am going to make a complaint with the better Busisness Burea since he is a member. I do think after over a month he should have taken care of this stove. Maybe with the complaint to the Better Busisness Burea, maybe I could help someone else not to drop money in the hands of this dealer, he is useless.

 

[Lousyweather]

Whats the issue you are having? (Other than the obvious dealer issue!) I dont know anything about the Sierra units or their warrantee procedures, but there are alot of quite competent folks here. I havent found the BBB to be of much use frankly. A better avenue might be to contact the manufacturer and tell then your issues. The manufacturer generally has a vested interest in their units working properly.