Question about secondaries

[Scott2373]

I may be a bit off on the concept, but it seems to me that the most efficient burn of an EPA stove is when ONLY the secondaries are spitting flame and the wood is just smoldering. I achieved a 7+ hour burn when I went to bed with the stove in this condition. However it seems that many people are under the impression that one needs to achieve a blazing hot fire and 600/+ degree stove top temps with the fire box looking like one big fireball. I don't understand how the wood is burning efficiently in this way. I've come to understand that flames are actually inefficient, unless heating your stove to achieve secondary burn of course. My secondaries will kick in when my top temps get to 400 +/- a few degrees. At this point I turn down the stove to 1/2 then in about 15-20 mins turn it down to almost closed and from there it will cruise. Does this sound right? I'm sure that every stove is different and each has it's own personality and "sweet spot", but it's really the concept that I need an answer on. Thank you!

 

[egclassic]

I may be a bit off on the concept, but it seems to me that the most efficient burn of an EPA stove is when ONLY the secondaries are spitting flame and the wood is just smoldering. I achieved a 7+ hour burn when I went to bed with the stove in this condition. However it seems that many people are under the impression that one needs to achieve a blazing hot fire and 600/+ degree stove top temps with the fire box looking like one big fireball. I don't understand how the wood is burning efficiently in this way. I've come to understand that flames are actually inefficient, unless heating your stove to achieve secondary burn of course. My secondaries will kick in when my top temps get to 400 +/- a few degrees. At this point I turn down the stove to 1/2 then in about 15-20 mins turn it down to almost closed and from there it will cruise. Does this sound right? I'm sure that every stove is different and each has it's own personality and "sweet spot", but it's really the concept that I need an answer on. Thank you!

Sounds about right to me.

 

[cptoneleg]

My secondaries kick in at about 275* I sometimes let the stove cruise at about 300* all day long, by throwing one split ever couple of hours.


I am retired and home most of the time and do alot of playing around with stove.

 

[Blue Vomit]

I may be a bit off on the concept, but it seems to me that the most efficient burn of an EPA stove is when ONLY the secondaries are spitting flame and the wood is just smoldering. I achieved a 7+ hour burn when I went to bed with the stove in this condition. However it seems that many people are under the impression that one needs to achieve a blazing hot fire and 600/+ degree stove top temps with the fire box looking like one big fireball. I don't understand how the wood is burning efficiently in this way. I've come to understand that flames are actually inefficient, unless heating your stove to achieve secondary burn of course. My secondaries will kick in when my top temps get to 400 +/- a few degrees. At this point I turn down the stove to 1/2 then in about 15-20 mins turn it down to almost closed and from there it will cruise. Does this sound right? I'm sure that every stove is different and each has it's own personality and "sweet spot", but it's really the concept that I need an answer on. Thank you!

I do the same. If I ran the Oslo up to 600 and then started backing it down from there, letting it finally cruise at 500, I would broil myself in the house, this time of the year. I think shoulder season is great for cruising at 350 or so with secondaries. Later in the season, I bet I'll be running it up to 600 then cruising at 500. I'm sure I'll need the heat in Jan.

 

[oldspark]

If I burnt my summit like that I would freeze, with a blazing fire I have very active secondaries so not sure what your point is, you should have secondaries as long as you turn the air down after the stove is warmed up. Dont have to have a smoldering flame to get a good efficient burn.

 

[begreen]

It all depends on the conditions. In shoulder season weather, with the house up to temperature I run the T6 pretty much the same way as Scott. It's only when I want to boost the temps, like first thing in the morning that I might have a bit more of a blazing fire. Our stove right now is cruising happily with a 450F stove top and mildly active secondaries after about an hour of burning this morning. Temp outside is 29F, living room is around 70F. If it was 19F outside I'd be burning more wood in the firebox with a bit more vigor, the goal being to get the stove top up to around 650F.

 

[SlyFerret]

I think achieving a burn with secondaries only for hours at a time is unrealistic (in a non-cat stove at least). We seem to have had a number of new members/burners confused lately.

Cutting the air back far enough to run with secondaries only, with nothing but smolderibg splits isnt going to keep the firebox hot enough to support the secondaries that long, and you will end up with noting but smldering splits.

For a non-cat, the most efficient burn will be acheived when the air is cut back as far as you can and still maintain stable secondaries. At this point, there will almost always still be a little bit of flame coming from the splits. Go too far and the secondaries go out when the firebox temp starts to drop.

-SF

 

[oldspark]

I think achieving a burn with secondaries only for hours at a time is unrealistic (in a non-cat stove at least). We seem to have had a number of new members/burners confused lately.

Cutting the air back far enough to run with secondaries only, with nothing but smolderibg splits isnt going to keep the firebox hot enough to support the secondaries that long, and you will end up with noting but smldering splits.

For a non-cat, the most efficient burn will be acheived when the air is cut back as far as you can and still maintain stable secondaries. At this point, there will almost always still be a little bit of flame coming from the splits. Go too far and the secondaries go out when the firebox temp starts to drop. -SF

I agree and if we dont have them confused yet give it a couple of days.

 

[Hankjones]

Can someone please post a short video of what their 7+ hour secondary burns looks like? I can't for the life of me get that kind of burn. I'm maxing maybe 2hr with little flame off logs and secondaries cooking. If anyone has time it would be REALLY helpful for us new people to get a shot of what things look like at hour 1,3,5,7. Most of the time by 3 hours I just have no flames with a ton of red coals. Sometimes I get a bit more flame by playing around with the primary air after 2hrs or so.

 

[oldspark]

7+ hour secondary burn I want to see that myself, just dont think that is fesible.

 

[BrotherBart]

Can someone please post a short video of what their 7+ hour secondary burns looks like?

I would love to see that myself. It ain't gonna happen. The load is in coal stage for a few hours at that point. Which by the way contains fifty percent of the heat.

 

[BrowningBAR]

I think achieving a burn with secondaries only for hours at a time is unrealistic (in a non-cat stove at least). We seem to have had a number of new members/burners confused lately.

Cutting the air back far enough to run with secondaries only, with nothing but smolderibg splits isnt going to keep the firebox hot enough to support the secondaries that long, and you will end up with noting but smldering splits.

I disagree with this, at least as far as running a Hearthstone is concerned. I cut the air controls off and close a pipe damper. Burning hot I will get a 5 hour of useable heat with temps topping out at 600+ degrees and they will remain 500+ degrees for 3+ hours. Most of those three those hours will be with secondaries. The other 2+ hours will be with flame and occasional secondaries.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Can someone please post a short video of what their 7+ hour secondary burns looks like? I can't for the life of me get that kind of burn. I'm maxing maybe 2hr with little flame off logs and secondaries cooking. If anyone has time it would be REALLY helpful for us new people to get a shot of what things look like at hour 1,3,5,7. Most of the time by 3 hours I just have no flames with a ton of red coals. Sometimes I get a bit more flame by playing around with the primary air after 2hrs or so.

I'm not sure anyone has ever mentioned that they get 7 hours of secondaries.

 

[SlyFerret]

I think achieving a burn with secondaries only for hours at a time is unrealistic (in a non-cat stove at least). We seem to have had a number of new members/burners confused lately.

Cutting the air back far enough to run with secondaries only, with nothing but smolderibg splits isnt going to keep the firebox hot enough to support the secondaries that long, and you will end up with noting but smldering splits.

I disagree with this, at least as far as running a Hearthstone is concerned. I cut the air controls off and close a pipe damper. Burning hot I will get a 5 hour of useable heat with temps topping out at 600+ degrees and they will remain 500+ degrees for 3+ hours. Most of those three those hours will be with secondaries. The other 2+ hours will be with flame and occasional secondaries.

You get almost 3 hours with secondaries ONLY? No flame coming from the splits at all?

-SF

 

[shawng111]

I think achieving a burn with secondaries only for hours at a time is unrealistic (in a non-cat stove at least). We seem to have had a number of new members/burners confused lately.

Cutting the air back far enough to run with secondaries only, with nothing but smoldering splits isn't going to keep the firebox hot enough to support the secondaries that long, and you will end up with noting but smouldering splits.

For a non-cat, the most efficient burn will be achieved when the air is cut back as far as you can and still maintain stable secondaries. At this point, there will almost always still be a little bit of flame coming from the splits. Go too far and the secondaries go out when the firebox temp starts to drop.

-SF

I agree with this, I can't maintain secondaries without some flame from the wood itself, just my opinion of course, but i have tried a number of times and for me the only way to keep the secondaries going well is to keep flame on the wood.

 

[BrowningBAR]

I think achieving a burn with secondaries only for hours at a time is unrealistic (in a non-cat stove at least). We seem to have had a number of new members/burners confused lately.

Cutting the air back far enough to run with secondaries only, with nothing but smolderibg splits isnt going to keep the firebox hot enough to support the secondaries that long, and you will end up with noting but smldering splits.

I disagree with this, at least as far as running a Hearthstone is concerned. I cut the air controls off and close a pipe damper. Burning hot I will get a 5 hour of useable heat with temps topping out at 600+ degrees and they will remain 500+ degrees for 3+ hours. Most of those three those hours will be with secondaries. The other 2+ hours will be with flame and occasional secondaries.

You get almost 3 hours with secondaries ONLY? No flame coming from the splits at all?

-SF

"Most of those three those hours will be with secondaries."

See this thread for how my secondaries look when the stove is locked in and humming along. The final two images is how the stove runs for the most part of three hours.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/83823/

 

[Hankjones]

I must have misread this post and some others, thought folks were getting really long flame times.... So what I'm hearing with a 2.2 cube foot box non- cat with a decent load of nice hardwood...I could expect...

3 hours with flames, secondaries..
3-4 hours coals still giving off decent heat

 

[BrowningBAR]

I must have misread this post and some others, thought folks were getting really long flame times.... So what I'm hearing with a 2.2 cube foot box non- cat with a decent load of nice hardwood...I could expect...

3 hours with flames, secondaries..
3-4 hours coals still giving off decent heat

Sounds about right. Some 2-ish cu ft non-cat stoves can produce good heat for longer than that. Some with the PE T5 can get 8+ hours of good heat out of the stove.

 

[BrotherBart]

Pretty much it. If the 30-NC is loaded up for the night I don't even expect flames four hours later. What I want it doing is being a big hunk of four hundred degree steel full of coaling wood heating the fireplace, the walls and the furniture for as long as it can and all of those things giving the heat back until I get up and feed it again.

Which is does like clockwork for twelve hours at a time.

 

[LLigetfa]

Reading about secondaries here is a bit like reading letters to Penthouse, both of which could be a source of performance anxiety for some folk.

 

[WoodpileOCD]

Reading about secondaries here is a bit like reading letters to Penthouse, both of which could be a source of performance anxiety for some folk.

Yea, and watching them can be .... second thought, maybe I won't go there.

 

[BrotherBart]

Reading about secondaries here is a bit like reading letters to Penthouse, both of which could be a source of performance anxiety for some folk.

Amen brother. Amen. This site is the only place I have ever seen that tells people to worry about it. Those five million or so people that are happy with their nice fire in their non-cat stoves and warm houses that never come here are really missing out aren't they?

I have been really tempted to ask Mike at Englander how many calls he gets when all hell breaks loose in the the stove.

 

[Hankjones]

Reading this forum has given me performance anxiety

 

[Scott2373]

Here is my stove burning with secondaries only in the first video, then a little flame in the second. Read the descriptions under the videos for details. This was when I went to bed and the next morning I had about 1-2 inches of glowing coals. Please excuse my heavy breathing in the videos, LOL %-P
Video 1

Video 2

 

[OhioBurner©]

Looks pretty good to me!