Question on bar oil

[JustWood]

Interesting post. I have an electric saw that I use a lot around the house, as it is quieter and has no (cough cough) fumes; the directions say NO bar and chain oil, to use straight motor oil. I wonder if canola oil would work as well. I do like to keep it "green".

Yes it works. I use an electric chainsaw inside the furnace room off the back of the house just for trimming down longs or uglies.

 

[PHD12]

I do 95% of my cutting on my own property, which is where I grow gardens, where I've got orchard trees, where I've got a well and where I've got a spring. Also kids, pets, livestock etc. No thanks on the petroleum-based bar oil. I either use Canola or Stihl Bio-Plus (I got a good deal on it in bulk) and my 441 loves it. You also have to keep in mind that tiny particles of your chosen bar oil are in the air you're breathing while running that saw. That's not save-the-planet type stuff, it's basic awareness of your own well being.

As for using waste motor oil..........probably not a great idea.

 

[mstoelton]

Like what?
Where did the chemicals come from?

Chemicals in used motor oil used in a four stroke engine or a diesel engine come from the combustion process happening in the cylinder. These include metals and PCBs. Although the PCBs are in fairly small quantities they are there. When you heat or burn PCBs at low temperature it creates Dioxins and dibenzofurans - These are some of the most toxic chemicals known.

I'm not trying to scare anyone but I wouldn't use waste crankcase oil.

 

[bobdog2o02]

I don't even like to have used motor oil touch my bare hands,I always wear nitrilegloves when handling stuff like old oil, brake cleaner, carb cleaner........

 

[JustWood]

Chemicals in used motor oil used in a four stroke engine or a diesel engine come from the combustion process happening in the cylinder. These include metals and PCBs. Although the PCBs are in fairly small quantities they are there. When you heat or burn PCBs at low temperature it creates Dioxins and dibenzofurans - These are some of the most toxic chemicals known.

I'm not trying to scare anyone but I wouldn't use waste crankcase oil.

If it comes from the combustion process in the upper half of the engine then its in higher concentrations in the exhaust than the oil ,,,,,, right ?

 

[mstoelton]

If it comes from the combustion process in the upper half of the engine then its in higher concentrations in the exhaust than the oil ,,,,,, right ?

Not necessarily, the oil tends to collect the contaminants because it is in the engine for a longer period of time. So it collects the contaminants over time.

 

[Jags]

Not necessarily, the oil tends to collect the contaminants because it is in the engine for a longer period of time. So it collects the contaminants over time.

Even more so with detergent oil. The detergent is designed to keep the contaminants in suspension. If the oil is at saturation point (of contaminants) then it will start to turn into sludge as the contaminants drop from suspension (or simply can't be absorbed any more).

 

[tsquini]

I would not think that canola oil would have the viscosity to lubricated adequately and keep the chain cool. Bar Chain oil has a high-tack viscosity so it stay on the bar better. Also, the smoke point for canola oil is right around 400*. I don't know what he temperature would be for bar oil put I'm sure it is higher than that.

 

[BrotherBart]

Chemicals in used motor oil used in a four stroke engine or a diesel engine come from the combustion process happening in the cylinder. These include metals and PCBs. Although the PCBs are in fairly small quantities they are there. When you heat or burn PCBs at low temperature it creates Dioxins and dibenzofurans - These are some of the most toxic chemicals known.

I'm not trying to scare anyone but I wouldn't use waste crankcase oil.

How so since PCBs were outlawed in 1977? That would be some mighty old oil in your car. PCBs are a man-made chemical, not a by-product of combustion.

 

[Charlie2]

Well, since we've wandered this far. Might as well throw this in. Here in Georgia, early 60's, you were a lucky family if the county or the state sprayed the dirt road in front of your house with burnt motor oil. Yeah, we've come a long way since then, no dirt roads.

 

[tsquini]

Most of the nasty crud is the motor oil is collected in the filter. The ash created from the combustion process turns the oil back to it natural state of rock oil or better know as petroleum.

 

[mstoelton]

How so since PCBs were outlawed in 1977? That would be some mighty old oil in your car. PCBs are a man-made chemical, not a by-product of combustion.

PCBs are indeed a by-product of combustion. I have been Managing Environmental projects for the last 25 years. I have cleaned-up several instances of waste oil that accumulated PCBs while in the crankcase of gasoline and diesel engines. These materials were at relatively low levels 25-40 ppm, but they were indeed present in both the oils that were released and in the soils that were cleaned up.

 

[JustWood]

Most of the nasty crud is the motor oil is collected in the filter. The ash created from the combustion process turns the oil back to it natural state of rock oil or better know as petroleum.

PCBs are indeed a by-product of combustion. I have been Managing Environmental projects for the last 25 years. I have cleaned-up several instances of waste oil that accumulated PCBs while in the crankcase of gasoline and diesel engines. These materials were at relatively low levels 25-40 ppm, but they were indeed present in both the oils that were released and in the soils that were cleaned up.

So wouldn't a very high percentage of "nasties" be exhausted since combustion takes place on the exhaust side of the cylinder ????
2 stroke engines have no crank case oil sump. All cylinder lubricating oil ( "nasties" ,"heavy metals", "chemicals") is combusted and exhausted into the air we breath.
In todays modern engines waste oil isn't the evil it once was.

 

[Grisu]

So wouldn't a very high percentage of "nasties" be exhausted since combustion takes place on the exhaust side of the cylinder ????

Are you talking about 2-stroke oil that gets mixed with the gasoline or bar oil? The bar oil does not get combusted but the friction may generate enough heat that PCBs convert to dioxin and dibenzofurans which will then end up in the wood and the soil at your cutting site.

2 stroke engines have no crank case. All cylinder lubricating oil ( "nasties" ,"heavy metals", "chemicals") is combusted and exhausted into the air we breath.
In todays modern engines waste oil isn't the evil it once was.

Not sure if that would make me more comfortable knowing I would breathe metalorganic compounds and other "nasty" combustion byproducts when burning waste oil. I don't really like the fact that I breathe right next to the exhaust of a 2-stroke engine anyway; I don't need to pollute that exhaust even further.

 

[JustWood]

Are you talking about 2-stroke oil that gets mixed with the gasoline or bar oil?

I'm talking about every combustion engine on the planet.

 

[jatoxico]

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/blowby.html

 

[Charlie2]

My goodness, what are you folks arguing about? 1 tenth of 1% of folks cutting firewood use waste oil and that's a reason to get up in arms? That's a grain of sand on the beach. Your running a two stroke engine, WFO, and your worried about someone else using "improper oil" as a bar lube. ----=-Then your burning the wood you've cut, where do you think the "proper oil" is, it's in the frigging wood your burning!

 

[tsquini]

Stihl makes a biodegradable bar and chain oil out of vegetables. 1 gallon is $27, OUCH. But you can use it to deep fry a turkey.
http://www.stihlusa.com/products/oils--lubricants-and-fuels/oils-and-lubricants/biooil/

 

[Grisu]

I'm talking about every combustion engine on the planet.

When recovered waste motor oil contains PCBs those have not been combusted by definition. When you put that in your bar oil tank it does not get combusted either. Between the time you cut your wood and you burn it in your stove it easily sits outside for a year or more; enough time for any contaminant to be washed into the soil surrounding your woodstacks. Hence, using old engine oil for bar oil is a bad idea and totally unnecessary anyway. Period.

1 tenth of 1% of folks cutting firewood use waste oil and that's a reason to get up in arms?

We are "getting up in arms" to keep it that low or should we just say waste motor oil is fine to use? Not to mention that the only appropriate number is 0% of folks using a chainsaw.

 

[BrotherBart]

This discussion reminds of the day a guy was telling me that my smoking was going to kill me. While we were working to roll yet another load of barrels of Agent Orange into the back of my Chinook.

 

[Charlie2]

Oh Man! Brother Bart, Thanks for your service!! -That's just not enough for what you guys went though.---There's nothing, there's no words that can show the appreciation I feel.

 

[Charlie2]

Grisu, You ask,

should we just say waste motor oil is fine to use

No, but there are times when you should say nothing. We "all" do that, everyday.

 

[Charlie2]

My wife asks, "do these pants make my butt look big", I don't know, ask Grisu.

 

[Grisu]

Grisu, No, but there are times when you should say nothing. We "all" do that, everyday.

Maybe the people who post in a public forum that used waste oil is ok to use should keep quiet? If they want to ruin their health, that's ok with me. But they should not start to give the impression other people could do the same without harm. Same would happen if some poster would declare burning wet wood works just fine.

My wife asks, "do these pants make my butt look big", I don't know, ask Grisu.

Your wife, your business.

 

[Charlie2]

There's an example.