My home was built in 1973 and has baseboard water heat. The person who built the house installed a radiator in the fireplace, which ties into the rest of the heating system. The idea being you could heat the whole house with the fireplace. But the idea works much better in theory than in practice. If the fire gets too hot, it creates too much pressure in the system and it has to relieve itself by spewing water out the back of the boiler. I would like to take advantage of a high efficiency insert but need to remove the radiator in order to have at least the 6 inch space needed for the chimney lining. The radiator seems to be built directly into the chimney, about a couple of feet above the flue, and there does not appear to be access to it other than through the fireplace. Has anyone every heard of such a set up? Does anyone have any experience removing a radiator like this or have any suggestions on how to remove it? Thanks!
Radiator in Fireplace?
- Thread starter Max Goldman
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Wow,
That sounds like a mess. If you can disconnect the plumbing and block it off without too much trouble. Why don't you just cut a hole through the old radiator instead of trying to remove it? Copper is that tough. I bet you could drill a whole through it and then cut it with a saws all. If it's really inaccesable you might take a pointed rod and just beat the day lights out of it.
That sounds like a mess. If you can disconnect the plumbing and block it off without too much trouble. Why don't you just cut a hole through the old radiator instead of trying to remove it? Copper is that tough. I bet you could drill a whole through it and then cut it with a saws all. If it's really inaccesable you might take a pointed rod and just beat the day lights out of it.
Gooserider
Mod Emeritus
Sounds like a bit of a clunky idea, that may actually have been capable of working better if it had been properly done (i.e. paying attention to pressure releif issues) However I agree with your idea of replacing it with an insert.
Karl had the basic idea right, it sounds like you need to disconnect and either plug the plumbing, or possibly put in a bypass. I would suggest looking for where the plumbing enters the fireplace structure, and tackle it from that end first.
Have you figured out the plumbing path yet?
Floorplans and photos might help us give better advice, or at least ask more helpful questions.
Gooserider
Karl had the basic idea right, it sounds like you need to disconnect and either plug the plumbing, or possibly put in a bypass. I would suggest looking for where the plumbing enters the fireplace structure, and tackle it from that end first.
Have you figured out the plumbing path yet?
Floorplans and photos might help us give better advice, or at least ask more helpful questions.
Gooserider
Eric Johnson
Mod Emeritus
That's a neat idea--putting a cast iron radiator in a fireplace. Too bad it doesn't work. I would think that over time, the radiator would start to leak, but it's the best idea I've heard for how to heat a house with a fireplace.
Most radiators have threaded connectors that allow you to disconnect the thing with a pipe wrench. If yours doensn't, then it's going to be a sawzall job. If the pipes connecting the radiator are copper, then it's no big deal to solder a couple of caps on the cut pipe and call it a day. If the pipes are black iron, on the other hand, then you'll have to find a place where you can break the connections with a pipe wrench and screw caps onto the pipe ends. I'm thinking the piping comes up from the basement. If so, then you're probably ahead to bypass the entire radiator connection down there. If not, then it may be a little trickier. If the radiator is the only thing on that zone, then all you need to do (after taking it out) is to close the valves to the zone.
Seriously though, if you're getting enough heat from that rad into your boiler to lift the preesure relief valve, then I'd consider finding a way to make it work, because that's quite an accomplishment. You could put a circulator in the piping, for example, that would distirbute the heat better. Or, you could use it for heating your domestic hot water and save some money on your utility bill.
Most radiators have threaded connectors that allow you to disconnect the thing with a pipe wrench. If yours doensn't, then it's going to be a sawzall job. If the pipes connecting the radiator are copper, then it's no big deal to solder a couple of caps on the cut pipe and call it a day. If the pipes are black iron, on the other hand, then you'll have to find a place where you can break the connections with a pipe wrench and screw caps onto the pipe ends. I'm thinking the piping comes up from the basement. If so, then you're probably ahead to bypass the entire radiator connection down there. If not, then it may be a little trickier. If the radiator is the only thing on that zone, then all you need to do (after taking it out) is to close the valves to the zone.
Seriously though, if you're getting enough heat from that rad into your boiler to lift the preesure relief valve, then I'd consider finding a way to make it work, because that's quite an accomplishment. You could put a circulator in the piping, for example, that would distirbute the heat better. Or, you could use it for heating your domestic hot water and save some money on your utility bill.
That's amazing. Be sure to keep the pressure relief valve on that loop in good condition. Is there a separate expansion tank on that run as well?
As for the excess heat, would an overheat dump zone comprised of a couple radiators in the basement work? This combined with a large hot water storage tank might be enough. If not, consider a smaller radiator in the fireplace.
As for the excess heat, would an overheat dump zone comprised of a couple radiators in the basement work? This combined with a large hot water storage tank might be enough. If not, consider a smaller radiator in the fireplace.
Eric Johnson
Mod Emeritus
I'd like to see a picture of that, if possible, Max.
BTW, last weekend I tackled a project I've been putting off for a couple of years, maybe longer. My wife has been after me to get rid of an old radiator in the greenhouse that froze up before we bought the house. I didn't realize it until I tried to pressure it up. Oh well. Anyway, it must weigh 300 pounds. So I disconnected it and laid it down in the corner, figuring that all that cast iron would make a pretty good plant stand and heat sink. Guy thing. But no sale with the Mrs.
So, I tried to move it by hand, but (in a rare moment of rational thought) figured I'd just wind up hurting myself or damaging something. Then it occurred to me that since cast iron rads are put together in sections (pressed together, actually with push nipples in between the sections), it ought to come apart. I cut the metal rods that hold everything together with a Sawzall and pried cast the sections apart with a big iron prybar. Nothing to it. At six cents a pound for scrap, that's a case of decent beer.
Here's a photograph.
BTW, last weekend I tackled a project I've been putting off for a couple of years, maybe longer. My wife has been after me to get rid of an old radiator in the greenhouse that froze up before we bought the house. I didn't realize it until I tried to pressure it up. Oh well. Anyway, it must weigh 300 pounds. So I disconnected it and laid it down in the corner, figuring that all that cast iron would make a pretty good plant stand and heat sink. Guy thing. But no sale with the Mrs.
So, I tried to move it by hand, but (in a rare moment of rational thought) figured I'd just wind up hurting myself or damaging something. Then it occurred to me that since cast iron rads are put together in sections (pressed together, actually with push nipples in between the sections), it ought to come apart. I cut the metal rods that hold everything together with a Sawzall and pried cast the sections apart with a big iron prybar. Nothing to it. At six cents a pound for scrap, that's a case of decent beer.
Here's a photograph.
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webbie
Seasoned Moderator
That whole situation is wrong, although the idea has some merits. There was a company called Hydroheat which made fireplace grates which had circulating water. In Europe, there are LOTS of wood and mult-fuel (wood/coal) units which also have hot water take-offs.the u
But in this case, the installation is VERY dangerous and should not be used - and removed as quickly as possible. There is danger of a steam explosion.
But in this case, the installation is VERY dangerous and should not be used - and removed as quickly as possible. There is danger of a steam explosion.
wg_bent
Minister of Fire
Hmmm... This is the kind of thing I was thinking of for a wood fired pool heater. Just outside, and with no closed loop so no possiblilty of steam build up.
Gives me an idea or two.
Gives me an idea or two.
Eric Johnson
Mod Emeritus
If it's an open loop, Warren, the radiator will rust out pretty quick. I don't see a problem with pressurizing something like that if you have it piped correctly and include a pressure relief valve and expansion tank. But I agree with Craig that putting a ci rad into a fireplace is not the safest arrangement. I'm just amazed that it works at all.
wg_bent
Minister of Fire
Eric Johnson said:
Hmmm, Rust and pool (read corrosive chemicals for steel) would not work! I'm just thinking mostly.
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