RE: Heating oil prices going up?

[firefighterjake]

Had the oil burner tech service my oil boiler the other day . . . I was bad . . . since installing the new boiler three years ago I had not had it cleaned . . . of course I only really ran it one year and then it was relegated to back up status which the tech noted based on a) how clean it was and b) "all the wood" I had in my yard (my wife didn't bother telling him about the two years worth of wood in the woodshed out back or the wood I'm now working on at the family homestead.)

In any case he said something rather interesting and I was wondering if anyone heard anything about this or if it was just idle tech talk . . . he claimed that due to some new standards heating oil needs to be low sulfur or something like that (remember I'm getting this third hand through my wife) and since few places are geared up to produce this new standard in heating oil they ("they" being the techs and heating oil company) figured heating oil prices could rise in the next few months.

Anyone heard anything on this?

 

[raiderfan]

I haven't heard of what you say or the reasons why, but I do know that I watch oil prices pretty consistently through this website:

http://www.newenglandoil.com/massachusetts/zone15.asp?x=0


I had an old Crane Oil fired boiler in my house when I bought it. That boiler, coupled with an old house, contributed to huge oil bills of around $3000 per heating season. I then installed a Natural Gas, high efficiency boiler and couldn't be happier (and will be even happier when I can slowly tighten up the house).

Anyhoo... I still follow the website just to see where oil is because I always wondered if it would go down and I'd second guess myself for converting to NG. With following the site given above, (I think this one might be just for New England companies), I noticed oil (in my town) went up from $2.69/gall to $2.89/gall in a relatively short time period.

Like I said, have heard no reasons for the jump, but that's quite a jump!!

 

[spirilis]

huh, sounds interesting, they did the same thing with Diesel fuel though so I'm guessing there's plenty of prior technology in the refineries to do it. Could drive the cost up!

 

[Backwoods Savage]

It seems that I recall reading something like this Jake but my memory banks have gone on strike so don't remember much about it.

 

[shawneyboy]

There are other factors in play here. I haven't heard of new EPA regs and all, but least we not forget that the Fed has begun the printing presses, which devalues the $$$ and since futures are pegged to the $$$ as the value goes down, the price of oil (including heating oil) and other comodities goes up.

 

[spirilis]

ah yes google reveals something-

http://www.heatingoil.com/blog/maine’s-governor-signs-low-sulfur-heating-oil-bill406/

 

[jharkin]

Yup, its probably related to the regs that brought ultra low sulfur diesel for auto use...

I wouldn't be surprised about price going up as it does cost more to remove the sulfur during refining... And a lot of the new oil resources being brought into production to offset conventional oil deccline - like deep water and the Canadian tar sands - are very sour (high sulfur) grades. More work to clean it up than the light sweet SA variety.

 

[RedGuy]

Well considering that heating oil is just off road diesel, which in turn is simply red dyed plain old diesel and as of this year all diesel has to be ultra low sulfer, well I think you can follow here. The same truck that fills my fuel oil tank fills numorus construction companies diesel equipment. BTW I just filled up about 3 weeks ago, the cheapest I found was $2.74/gal, up from $2.42 in September, wish I'd topped off my 500 gallon tanks then!

 

[BrotherBart]

At the end of last month Exxon/Mobil brought new units on-stream at Baytown and Baton Rouge that will crank out over three million gallons a day of low sulfur distillate, diesel and heating oil, so there will be some around.

 

[Mrs. Krabappel]

ouch! I hope it doesn't jump considerably. I just got the minimum delivery of 100 gals for just over $300. Worse than last year. Better than the year before. I'm trying to divorce they oil man (tho' he's pretty adorable) but need some oil in the tank, especially as I hit the road for t-day.

 

[robertmcw]

Well I don't know but there a nice article about oil prices here:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101123/ap_on_bi_ge/us_oil_prices_4

Robert

 

[Frostbit]

I just put 150 gallons in my fuel tank a couple of weeks ago. Six hundred ninety dollars and change. $4.59 per gallon.

 

[CALJREICH]

I got geothermal. I can heat my 2400 sf house for about $100 a month. Got a VC Difiant stove for back up heat but I haven't ran the heatpump yet this year. I used to have oil furnance. Don't miss the oil man.

 

[nate379]

Where is that at?

I bought 200 gals not long ago and it was about $600. 2.97/gal

I just put 150 gallons in my fuel tank a couple of weeks ago. Six hundred ninety dollars and change. $4.59 per gallon.

 

[RedGuy]

I got geothermal. I can heat my 2400 sf house for about $100 a month. Got a VC Difiant stove for back up heat but I haven't ran the heatpump yet this year. I used to have oil furnance. Don't miss the oil man.

That's what I'm going for, couldn't find any decent financing though, so it'll have to wait for a year or so till I can save up the $20K it cost to put in.

 

[Huskyforlife]

It could have been all smoke and mirrors, but they had a study done on this when they switched over in Connecticut earlier this year...the consensus was that would cost $.03-.04 more a gallon, but would be made up by the fact that it burns cleaner and you have to service your equipment less as a result. Personally I'm all for paying a couple bucks more for per fill for a cleaner fuel if it cuts down the amount of times I have to service my boiler.

 

[jharkin]

At the end of last month Exxon/Mobil brought new units on-stream at Baytown and Baton Rouge that will crank out over three million gallons a day of low sulfur distillate, diesel and heating oil, so there will be some around.

Is that gallons or barrels?

If it is gallons thats only a drop in the bucket. The US uses 20 million barrels a day of oil, or around 840 million gallons. I think the breakdown is something like 30% of that goes to diesel and related fuel oils so figure on 250 million gallons a day of fuel oils.

So that new plant added 1% more fuel oil capacity to the US.

 

[Frostbit]

Where is that at?

I bought 200 gals not long ago and it was about $600. 2.97/gal

I just put 150 gallons in my fuel tank a couple of weeks ago. Six hundred ninety dollars and change. $4.59 per gallon.

Where Lance Mackey celebrates each March the past three years.

 

[BrotherBart]

At the end of last month Exxon/Mobil brought new units on-stream at Baytown and Baton Rouge that will crank out over three million gallons a day of low sulfur distillate, diesel and heating oil, so there will be some around.

Is that gallons or barrels?

If it is gallons thats only a drop in the bucket. The US uses 20 million barrels a day of oil, or around 840 million gallons. I think the breakdown is something like 30% of that goes to diesel and related fuel oils so figure on 250 million gallons a day of fuel oils.

So that new plant added 1% more fuel oil capacity to the US.

Gallons. In just two of its refineries. Heating oil, which is mostly used in the Northeast, is a fart in a windstorm compared to low sulfur total distillate production. A huge amount of low sulfur diesel is exported to Europe and South America where regulations require its use.

In Singapore The Big XX is doubling its ultra low sulfur output and that will cover some of the export market.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I still have oil in my tank i paid $1.24 for. (2002) I use as little as i absolutely have to. Still drawing off of 1000 gal tank since 2002 that was $1.24 Gal, have about 400 gal left.

 

[Dune]

Gasoline prices have risen for the past few weeks as well. Isn't it just that scew em over again time of year? Glad I don't buy ANY anymore.

 

[Shari]

I still have oil in my tank i paid $1.24 for. (2002) I use as little as i absolutely have to. Still drawing off of 1000 gal tank since 2002 that was $1.24 Gal, have about 400 gal left.

:coolsmile:

 

[CALJREICH]

I got geothermal. I can heat my 2400 sf house for about $100 a month. Got a VC Difiant stove for back up heat but I haven't ran the heatpump yet this year. I used to have oil furnance. Don't miss the oil man.

That's what I'm going for, couldn't find any decent financing though, so it'll have to wait for a year or so till I can save up the $20K it cost to put in.

The government will give you 30% of the total cost no limit. When I put it in I got $2000 which was all they would give. If you pay $20,000 you'll get $6,000 back on your tax return.


Just in case you did not know.

 

[RedGuy]

I got geothermal. I can heat my 2400 sf house for about $100 a month. Got a VC Difiant stove for back up heat but I haven't ran the heatpump yet this year. I used to have oil furnance. Don't miss the oil man.

That's what I'm going for, couldn't find any decent financing though, so it'll have to wait for a year or so till I can save up the $20K it cost to put in.

The government will give you 30% of the total cost no limit. When I put it in I got $2000 which was all they would give. If you pay $20,000 you'll get $6,000 back on your tax return.


Just in case you did not know.

Yep, that's one VERY nice thing! I actually called the bank that's supposed to be offering a green financing, still not there yet, but they're working on it. I told him I'm not in a hurry now as soon the ground will be frozen here and they won't be able to put the system in til spring. Plus I've already filled my 500 gallon oil tank, and bought my wood stove (just today!:D ) and liner. Come next summer I'll really be looking into it again as there's nothing that comes close to geothermals efficency!

 

[fdegree]

I got geothermal. I can heat my 2400 sf house for about $100 a month. Got a VC Difiant stove for back up heat but I haven't ran the heatpump yet this year. I used to have oil furnance. Don't miss the oil man.

That's what I'm going for, couldn't find any decent financing though, so it'll have to wait for a year or so till I can save up the $20K it cost to put in.

The government will give you 30% of the total cost no limit. When I put it in I got $2000 which was all they would give. If you pay $20,000 you'll get $6,000 back on your tax return.


Just in case you did not know.

This is probably not the proper forum to discuss this, but I'll through my thoughts out there for consideration.

First, let me say...I talked to a very knowledgeable mechanical engineer who specializes in geothermal design...he said if the the building square footage is below 10,000 sq. ft. it is not cost effective to install geothermal. Although, it's getting close to being worth it, now that the government is offering a 30% tax credit...but, as a tax payer, you are actually paying for that too.

Now, perhaps my math is way off...
$20,000 - $6,000 = $14,000 out of pocket expense
Assuming you save $100 per month in energy bills...14,000 / 100 = 140 months to break even on installation expenses (11.6 years)
But, you are not likely to save as much in the summer as you will in the winter...you will also not save as much in the shoulder months. So, the average monthly savings is likely to be much less than $100.
Factor in occasional repair/maintenance expenses, and you are likely looking at 15 years to break even.

Traditional heat pumps have an average life span of 10 - 15 years...geothermal life span is probably longer, but I doubt it is much beyond 20 years. Assuming these numbers are correct...how efficient is the system during the last 5 years of the systems life...probably somewhat reduced.

Now, I'm not knocking the geothermal technology...it is efficient, and if it is designed and installed correctly, can be very comfortable in rather cold climates. I'm just not sure it is financially worth the investment.

But, it is your money, do with it as you wish. ;-)