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RE: Siding question

Post in 'DIY and General non-hearth advice' started by firefighterjake, Jun 18, 2013.

  1. firefighterjake

    firefighterjake Minister of Fire

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    After doing our roof over in metal we decided that the cedar shingles looked kind of crappy with several of them curling so we are going with vinyl siding.

    Since three of the four walls of the house are only 2 x 4 construction we also are adding foam panels for some additional insulation -- 3/4 inch to be precise.

    The contractor plans to strip off the shingles, nail up the foam panels and then put on the siding . . .

    Quick question . . . Should the contractor apply Typar or tar paper between the plywood and foam panels . . . or would putting up the foam panels and taping the seams work instead?
    vinny11950 likes this.

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  2. fossil

    fossil Accidental Moderator Staff Member

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    Dunno the answer to that, but I would surely hope your contractor would. I had vinyl siding installed during a big addition/remodel on our house in Virginia, and I never was particularly happy with it, for a number of reasons. (BTW - If you go that way, be really careful not to park a still-hot grill close to the wall after the steaks are done...vinyl melts into some really interesting shapes. :confused:) My house & garage building out here in Bend are clad with fiber cement siding (commonly called Hardie board, but Hardie is just one of a few manufacturers). Fire-resistant, dimensionally stable, paintable, and I think much more attractive than vinyl. Rick
    Sprinter likes this.
  3. SIERRADMAX

    SIERRADMAX Feeling the Heat

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    no need for housewrap. Tape each seam and caulk outer edges for moisture & insect protection.
  4. Hearth Mistress

    Hearth Mistress Minister of Fire

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    I'm not sure if there was a particular reason, but our house is STILL being repaired from Sandy and our siding wasreplaced - asbestos siding taken off, tar paper applied to plywood then hardi-plank siding put on top. Not sure if the different material for the siding makes a difference (vinyl vs cement board) but I had a tar paper shack for a while until all of the siding was replaced.
  5. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    Don't let them install foil faced siding on sun exposed sides of the house. It will warp the siding from behind. House wrap won't hurt over top the foam. Tape works, but will come loose as the adhesive dries out over time.
  6. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    You might want to ask a realtor about what the vinyl siding will do to the home value. I know it kept us away from looking at some houses.
  7. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Our house is brick front with miles of vinyl siding on the rest. Stuff is 28 years old and looks good and is going strong. Roofers asked me about siding and I asked them to show me why. They grinned and said they couldn't.
  8. fossil

    fossil Accidental Moderator Staff Member

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    Yup, that was my split-foyer in Fairfax, as well.
  9. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Well, there is that one corner on the back of the garage. Darn stuff should be made anticipating me not watching behind me when I was pulling the big trailer around back instead of the usual small one. ;em Obvious manufacturing defect.

    ETA: This place was under roof and sided but not finished in April of 1985. We left work just as a monster hail storm hit. Just three days before I had commented that Fairfax obviously didn't get hail storms since everybody had aluminum siding.

    I hauled it straight for the building site the minute it stopped pounding the car. Not one shingle out of place and the siding was primo. The first time a roofer was on that roof was last Saturday when I had it replaced. Two years early according to the roofers.

    Most of Fairfax the next day looked like Nagasaki the day after...
  10. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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  11. fossil

    fossil Accidental Moderator Staff Member

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    No doubt. Just like the spot I turned into modern art by parking my gas grill too close while it was still hot. ;lol
    BrotherBart likes this.
  12. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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  13. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Yep, our house would be fine too. It rarely ever hits 80::F and the garage is directly to the south. No chance of window reflecting sun here. Since the house was raised up 3 ft there is no chance of hitting it with the trailer either. A hot grille on the other hand is a definite possibility. Think we'll stick with clapboards.
    Hearth Mistress likes this.
  14. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    I am amazed. Looks like painted wood and it doesn't ever need painting. But I figured it would fall off in pieces in five years tops. Two tornadoes, one spinning down 18 feet from the corner of the house, one earthquake and what seems like the crap from a bazillion hurricanes and it just sorta keeps on keeping on. Which is fine with me. Damn roof cost four times what I paid for my first new car. Sure is purdy though. ;lol
  15. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Good to hear you finally got a weather window wide enough to get the roof on. Vinyl is fine as long as you don't apply heat.

    bbb0027.jpg
  16. Sprinter

    Sprinter Minister of Fire

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    +1. Jake, I imagine that you have examined the alternatives, but I would also strongly recommend Hardie board siding over vinyl. It costs more but along with Rick's reasons above, will surely add more value and resale appeal to the house.
  17. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Back in 1985 I figured that is exactly what would happen. Go figure.

    ETA: We were supposed to be here 18 to 24 months max. The guy that did that deal died just after we moved in. And the rest, as they say, is 30 years of history.

    The flip side is, we kinda like it here in the large weeds.
  18. jharkin

    jharkin Minister of Fire

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    I'll add another vote for Hardie board if you are not going with real wood. Ive never liked the look or feel of plastic, especially on historic houses when all the ornate trim and millwork typically gets cut off to slap the stuff on.
    Hearth Mistress likes this.
  19. firefighterjake

    firefighterjake Minister of Fire

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    Appreciate the input . . . but we pretty much settled on vinyl for the cost and low maintenance although I have seen Hardie Board and like the look.

    Around here most homes are vinyl so retail values should not be affected . . . if anything it may -- believe it or not -- help the value of the house -- albeit not much. High heat and heat sources should not be an issue . . . although I think I will move the grill on the back porch.
  20. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    The added insulation, wind sealing and thermal break will definitely help reduce the wood load, cooling load too, but maybe that is not too much of an issue in Bangor. It will be interesting to see what you think next winter.
  21. semipro

    semipro Minister of Fire

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    There are different grades of vinyl to consider.

    To your original question:
    I don't think anything should be put between the foam and plywood. I'd put house wrap over the taped foam and then tape the house wrap (well).
    Foam does shrink with age and the addition of house wrap will help ensure long term air/water tightness.

    (edit: see BuildingScience.com article on this).
    http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/published-articles/pa-foam-shrinks/view
  22. mepellet

    mepellet Minister of Fire

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  23. vinny11950

    vinny11950 Minister of Fire

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    You might want to check out these articles regarding the thickness of the foam. 3/4 inch might not be enough to keep the sheathing warm enough so it does not cause condensation.

    http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com...lating-minimum-thickness-rigid-foam-sheathing

    http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/qa-spotlight/how-insulate-wall-outside

    It also matters how your walls are constructed and how much moisture travels in between them.

    Maybe other will chime in about this. Good luck.

    Excerpt below:

    All you need to know

    Here is the essential information from Table N1102.5.1 that applies to foam-sheathed walls:


    Climate Zone Minimum R-Value of Foam Sheathing
    Marine Zone 4: R-2.5 for 2x4 walls; R-3.75 for 2x6 walls
    Zone 5: R-5 for 2x4 walls; R-7.5 for 2x6 walls
    Zone 6: R-7.5 for 2x4 walls; R-11.25 for 2x6 walls
    Zones 7: and 8 R-10 for 2x4 walls; R-15 for 2x6 walls
    Once you know the minimum required R-value for your foam sheathing, you can determine your foam thickness. To do that, you need to know the R-value per inch of your foam. The most common type of expanded polystyrene (EPS) has an R-value of about R-3.6 per inch; extruded polystyrene (XPS) has an R-value of R-5 per inch; and polyisocyanurate has an R-value of about R-6.5 per inch.
    semipro likes this.
  24. pyroholic

    pyroholic Member

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    +10
  25. woodsman23

    woodsman23 Minister of Fire

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    the new foam comes with a barrier attached already, just tape and go.
    woodsmaster likes this.

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