Recommendations: Stove for 24/7 Heating of a Moderately Insulated Somewhat Leaky 2000 sq-ft Old Hou

[Renovation]

Hi Folks,

This is a spin-off of my previous thread on efficiency, getting to the heart of the matter--the best stove for my application. I'm posting it under a new topic title, in hopes that will help folks find it easily later.

The title say it--what stove will give me long burn times and relatively steady temps in my 2000 sq-ft moderately insulated and somewhat leaky 2 story farmhouse (hopefully tighter later)--and my application--using it 24/7 as a primary heat source.

Price is a concern, but I'd even spring for a soapstone stove it it were significantly better for my application. I'd like to heat the entire house (open floorplan with ceiling fans and excellent forced air ductwork for fan circulation), at as constant temp as possible with as long burn times as possible.

[quote author="Battenkiller" date="1288481163"]Disregarding published efficiency figures, cat stoves will generally be a lot more efficient at low burn rates and secondary combustion burn tube/manifold type stoves are more efficient at high burn rates. Soon you will begin to see more and more hybrid stoves that use both technologies. This is regarding burn efficiency, not necessarily heating efficiency.

In the real world, I believe a stove that burns at the steadiest rate will be the most efficient at warming your house, provided that it is properly sized so that burning it at it's optimum rate is not too much heat for the space.[/quote]

So what suggestions do folks have for the right size/type/model for my application? I'm thinking a large firebox would give the long burns, but I need to be able to dial it back to the right output for my application, which is honestly a 2000 sq-ft old house with middling insulation and mediocre sealing. So I'm thinking my heating needs are somewhat high for a 2000 sq-ft space?

[quote author="Battenkiller" date="1288509021"][quote author="RenovationGeorge" date="1288508560"]That said, it does sound like the ideal for me--long gentle heat with high efficiency. [/quote]

Well, perhaps you will be first in line for the new Woodstock Stove Co. wunderkind coming soon. Hybrid secondary/cat combustion, soapstone walls for unsurpassed heat retention, an estimated 90%+ burn efficiency, probably pretty as a picture to look at.....

We're all like kids waiting for Santa on this one.[/quote]

Geez, Battenkiller, you're reading my mind--sorry for the dogeared pages. I've been reading the posts on it's development, and wiping the drool off my chin. I won't be ready to buy until next summer (if I don't fall off a ladder), so I'll have time to see what people think of it, I hope.

 

[daleeper]

This has Blaze King King stove written all over it.

Hope you are working on getting your firewood gathered now.

 

[SolarAndWood]

The problem I see with the bigger leaky house is that there is a huge difference between how much heat you need this time of year compared to when it is single digits and blowing. For some, the solution is multiple small fires in a big firebox stove when its mild. For others, it is using a smaller stove and supplementing with the furnace when the stove can't keep up. We both work and don't have a furnace so neither of these worked for us. What has worked very well for us is the big cat stove with the thermostat. This time of year, we get nice long low burns with all the oddball/short chunks and have never had to open a window. When it's cold and blowing, the good stuff comes out and we still get 12 hour burn cycles. When we get the house done and sealed up, this will likely increase to 24 hours.

 

[BrowningBAR]

I will agree with the others that a Blaze King seems like the best choice based on it's flexibility, super long burn times, and heating capacity. My concern with the upcoming new Woodstock stove is that it is a complete unknown. BTU rating, burn times, etc haven't even been mentioned yet.

An open floor plan is nice, especially considering it is an old farmhouse, but a centrally located stove will be even more helpfully. Will the stove be centrally located or off to the one side of the house? How leaky is 'somewhat'? New-ish double pane windows? Or old single pane with old storm windows? Is this a stone farm house or wood siding?

You mentioned budget, so the budget model that would fit your needs would be the Englander 30NC.

 

[DAKSY]

You have 2000 SF open, airy, & MAYBE insulated. You're just about in the same zone we are in NY.
We'd figure you're gonna need 40 - 45 BTU OUTPUT per sf. The math says you need 80K - 90K.
At 75% efficiency, you're looking at 108K - 120K INPUT.
I'm thinking Hearthstone Equinox - at 120K -but that monster is 689 LBS of CI & Soapstone & has
an 8" flue collar...
There may be others out there with that kind of horsepower, but someone else will hafta tell you about em...

 

[Backwoods Savage]

George, I agree either a big BK or wait for the Woodstock stove which should be on the market by the time you need it.

Right now I'd be gathering wood so that it will be ready by next fall. Good luck.

 

[ansehnlich1]

This has Blaze King King stove written all over it.

Hope you are working on getting your firewood gathered now.

yep!

 

[homebrewz]

For a big drafty farmhouse, I would have to vote against a soapstone stove unless you plan on running it 24/7 all winter long. If you plan on burning part-time, you might get frustrated with how long it takes to heat up the mass and start putting heat out into the room from a cold start. A steel or even a cast iron stove would be better for this.

 

[gohabsgo]

Burn times are largely a fonction of the firebox volume. You may want to consider the Solution 3.4 from Enerzone. This stove has a 3.4 cubic foot firebox and the price is reasonable. It retails for roughly 2,000$ and comes with the blower. It is rated at 100K BTU. It looks very good too. Enerzone is not as well know as some of the other brans, but the comments I get from other dealers is that for a big, non-cat, good looking stove, this is as good as it gets!

 

[Renovation]

This has Blaze King King stove written all over it.

Hope you are working on getting your firewood gathered now.

Thanks for the head-ups!

I'm now researching Blaze King with great interest, and am sorry I have to tear myself away to work on the house.

This does look very promising for my application, with the huge firebox, thermostat, and long regulated burns. That baby looks ug-lee to me now, but if it works well for me, it will become beautiful. ( o/` "If you want to be happy for the rest of your life..." o/` )

I'll do some more research before I pester folks, so I won't re-ask *every* question. ;-P I'm hoping my 25' straight 6" chimney will work with it--at least I wouldn't need to add a damper, lol.

And thanks or re-emphasizing the need for dry firewood. I see that repeated, and it's sinking in. I'm doing what I can, since I have to travel to AZ on Wednesday to manage and maybe sell my place there. In the meantime I have a big pile of locusts on my family land that's been sitting for two years. I'm hoping if I split it next spring, it will be decent by the fall?

Too bad I have work to do--I'll just have to save my researching fun until tonight.

Thanks and have a great one!

 

[Renovation]

The problem I see with the bigger leaky house is that there is a huge difference between how much heat you need this time of year compared to when it is single digits and blowing. For some, the solution is multiple small fires in a big firebox stove when its mild. For others, it is using a smaller stove and supplementing with the furnace when the stove can't keep up. We both work and don't have a furnace so neither of these worked for us. What has worked very well for us is the big cat stove with the thermostat. This time of year, we get nice long low burns with all the oddball/short chunks and have never had to open a window. When it's cold and blowing, the good stuff comes out and we still get 12 hour burn cycles. When we get the house done and sealed up, this will likely increase to 24 hours.

Thanks SaW,

That does seem ideal for my application. As mentioned above, I'm following up the the King tip, and trying to educate myself.

 

[Renovation]

You have 2000 SF open, airy, & MAYBE insulated. You're just about in the same zone we are in NY.
We'd figure you're gonna need 40 - 45 BTU OUTPUT per sf. The math says you need 80K - 90K.
At 75% efficiency, you're looking at 108K - 120K INPUT.
I'm thinking Hearthstone Equinox - at 120K -but that monster is 689 LBS of CI & Soapstone & has
an 8" flue collar...
There may be others out there with that kind of horsepower, but someone else will hafta tell you about em...

Hey Bob,

Thanks for the calculations--I was wondering how my 2000 SF compares with brochure 2000 SF--it looks like I'm more like brochure 3500 SF (SFB? ) I was wondering if a King or Equinox would be overkill, but it looks like maybe not? Now I have to see if those might work with my 25' straight chimney, among other things.

Thanks for sharing your expertise!

 

[Renovation]

I will agree with the others that a Blaze King seems like the best choice based on it's flexibility, super long burn times, and heating capacity. My concern with the upcoming new Woodstock stove is that it is a complete unknown. BTU rating, burn times, etc haven't even been mentioned yet.

An open floor plan is nice, especially considering it is an old farmhouse, but a centrally located stove will be even more helpfully. Will the stove be centrally located or off to the one side of the house? How leaky is 'somewhat'? New-ish double pane windows? Or old single pane with old storm windows? Is this a stone farm house or wood siding?

You mentioned budget, so the budget model that would fit your needs would be the Englander 30NC.

Thanks BBBAR,

The open floor plan is thanks to me ripping out the moldy hive of plaster-and-lathe rooms on the first floor down to the studs, and making a great room containing kitchen and living area, with a staircase up to the second floor where I've made an open landing and a 20' hall to the bedrooms.

The stove will be centrally located in this great room with ceiling fans in the GR and second floor landing to move the air around. I've also upgraded the HVAC with extra ducting to really move the air around with the two-stage furnace fan.

So far I'm fixing the wiring, plumbing and ducting, so I can get my inspections and then insulate and close the walls. For now the window are cr*p-tastic single-panes with cheap storms. When the wind blows I can feel air currents from the exposed frames, but have put in real headers, and will eventually replace with quality vinyl windows and spray foam insulation. I have aluminum siding over 100 year old shiplap on the first floor and 30 year old particle board (no vapor barrier :shut: ) on the second--man, I'd love stone. So eventually the house will be pretty well insulated, and much tighter, but maybe still fairly leaky--it's just plain old and the second floor exterior walls will remain leaky unless I someday fix them too.

Budget indeed matters to me, but the stove will be a crucial part, and a reward to myself for all my work, so I'll spend what I have to to get an excellent fit for my needs.

 

[fredarm]

BK King need 8 inch pipe. Maybe the Princess would work? It uses 6 inch pipe.

 

[blazeitup]

i second the equinox as u do wish to let it run, if u do ressuport the floor. also larger output is needed if ur gonna us hvac to circulate (coolin the air somewhat). then at least the cold air from your windows will feel like a cool breeze on a hot summers day!

 

[Backwoods Savage]

This has Blaze King King stove written all over it.

Hope you are working on getting your firewood gathered now.

Thanks for the head-ups!

I'm now researching Blaze King with great interest, and am sorry I have to tear myself away to work on the house.

This does look very promising for my application, with the huge firebox, thermostat, and long regulated burns. That baby looks ug-lee to me now, but if it works well for me, it will become beautiful. ( o/` "If you want to be happy for the rest of your life..." o/` )

I'll do some more research before I pester folks, so I won't re-ask *every* question. ;-P I'm hoping my 25' straight 6" chimney will work with it--at least I wouldn't need to add a damper, lol.

And thanks or re-emphasizing the need for dry firewood. I see that repeated, and it's sinking in. I'm doing what I can, since I have to travel to AZ on Wednesday to manage and maybe sell my place there. In the meantime I have a big pile of locusts on my family land that's been sitting for two years. I'm hoping if I split it next spring, it will be decent by the fall?

Too bad I have work to do--I'll just have to save my researching fun until tonight.

Thanks and have a great one!

George, we hate to beat a dead horse but consider what you are asking by waiting for the wood splitting until next spring. If you've done some research you know that wood really won't start drying until it is split. So why wait until Spring? If you get it split, say, by December 1, you have an extra several months for that wood to be drying. No, it will not dry as fast during the winter months but it will dry. Good luck.

 

[Renovation]

George, we hate to beat a dead horse but consider what you are asking by waiting for the wood splitting until next spring. If you've done some research you know that wood really won't start drying until it is split. So why wait until Spring? If you get it split, say, by December 1, you have an extra several months for that wood to be drying. No, it will not dry as fast during the winter months but it will dry. Good luck.

Thanks Dennis,

Beat away--sometimes I can be like the mule that takes a whack with a 2x4 just to get his attention. ;-)

I take your point, and see over and over in the forum where people think their stoves are defective, but it's wet wood. Sadly, I'm only one guy, and have to travel in a couple of days, so it will have to wait. I'm hoping that if I get on the two-year dead wood in the spring, at least I'll be decent by fall. Or the *wood* will be decent, lol.

 

[Renovation]

BK King need 8 inch pipe. Maybe the Princess would work? It uses 6 inch pipe.

Thanks Fred,

I see where Todd says some folks have gotten away with 6" pipe, and I'd talk to the manufacturer first. I'm hoping with my 25' of 6" pipe running straight up from the stove I'd be alright. Does anyone know of people using 6" pipe with the Blaze King King?

 

[Todd]

BK King need 8 inch pipe. Maybe the Princess would work? It uses 6 inch pipe.

Thanks Fred,

I see where Todd says some folks have gotten away with 6" pipe, and I'd talk to the manufacturer first. I'm hoping with my 25' of 6" pipe running straight up from the stove I'd be alright. Does anyone know of people using 6" pipe with the Blaze King King?

I think Rich L burns his in a 6"

 

[Renovation]

Many thanks, Todd,

I just PM-ed Rich, and will share any info he shares, if it's alright with him.

BK King need 8 inch pipe. Maybe the Princess would work? It uses 6 inch pipe.

Thanks Fred,

I see where Todd says some folks have gotten away with 6" pipe, and I'd talk to the manufacturer first. I'm hoping with my 25' of 6" pipe running straight up from the stove I'd be alright. Does anyone know of people using 6" pipe with the Blaze King King?

I think Rich L burns his in a 6"

 

[firefighterjake]

Echoing . . . BK (even though they're mighty ugly) or Equinox (no cat, but they are pretty.)

And yes . . . get your wood now if you hope to have no issues when you burn next Fall.

 

[Renovation]

Echoing . . . BK (even though they're mighty ugly) or Equinox (no cat, but they are pretty.)

And yes . . . get your wood now if you hope to have no issues when you burn next Fall.

Thanks Jake,

I must be getting old, because I'll take ugly and more compatible over pretty and less compatible. Oh well, it had to happen eventually, I guess. So I'm leaning towards the BK, though I find the Equinox gorgeous--what as showpiece! (I showed a pic of the BK to a friend and he said "Woah! Old school!" And that was not a compliment, lol.) All the BK reviews I've read are rabidly enthusiastic. I wonder why other manufacturers don't go for the thermostatic damper control (PE has their EBT, but it seems that is more to pass EPA tests than to maintain even temperature.)? Is it patented, or do most people not care?

Anyway, I'm hoping my 6" chimney will work with the BK or Equinox, since it's straight, double wall stove pipe, interior, and 25' long. I suppose if it doesn't, I can put in an 8". That would suck, pun intended.

And from searching through the posts, yes I do see how vital wood quality is, and how often it turns out poor wood is the culprit for a myriad of problems. If I'd joined a month ago I would have had a chance of getting some split wood curing, but as I'm leaving for my final winter in AZ on Wednesday, I'm out of luck unless I can figure a way to get something going while I'm gone.

Thanks for your thoughts, and kind welcome to the forum on my earlier thread.

 

[SolarAndWood]

"Woah! Old school!"

How much that is worth to you is obviously only a call you can make. We came down to the Equinox and King. What did it for us was we would only be able to use the big firebox on the Equinox when we really needed heat. The rest of the time it would be partial loads to not overheat the house. We load the King to the gills every time no matter how mild the temperatures and the thermostat/cat combo does a very good job of spreading that potential heat out over a long burn.

Whichever stove you go with, figure out the fuel thing before you go away for the winter. Given our experience heating a similar sized house that we are resuscitating in a similar climate, you are going to want 8-10 DRY cord, real not Michigan or NY cords, ready to go next fall. Put an ad on Craigslist to have someone help you bang out the locust. There are a lot of people that would be grateful for a weeks work. And it will be money well spent.

 

[Renovation]

"Woah! Old school!"

How much that is worth to you is obviously only a call you can make. We came down to the Equinox and King. What did it for us was we would only be able to use the big firebox on the Equinox when we really needed heat. The rest of the time it would be partial loads to not overheat the house. We load the King to the gills every time no matter how mild the temperatures and the thermostat/cat combo does a very good job of spreading that potential heat out over a long burn.

Whichever stove you go with, figure out the fuel thing before you go away for the winter. Given our experience heating a similar sized house that we are resuscitating in a similar climate, you are going to want 8-10 DRY cord, real not Michigan or NY cords, ready to go next fall. Put an ad on Craigslist to have someone help you bang out the locust. There are a lot of people that would be grateful for a weeks work. And it will be money well spent.

Thanks SaW,

Usually I choose function over form eventually, and once I decide what's best for my application, the homeliest item begins to have it's own functional beauty. I'm still learning and my thoughts are changing daily, but for now I'm leaning towards the King, for the reasons you mention. Using the stove 24/7, it would be nice to be able go away for a day or so, and not have the furnace kick in.

That said, I find the Equinox gorgeous, and it would look like a million bucks sitting in my great room.

Any idea why more stoves don't use thermostats? They seem quite useful. I'm guessing it's because, unless it's a cat, damping down to control temps might make it fail EPA? Total guess there. But the controllable temp with a full firebox and long burns are big draws, pun intended. ;-P

And thanks for your Craigslist suggestion. That's a great idea, and I'll see if I can set something up. Perhaps I can get a neighbor to supervise the job, since I'm leaving tomorrow! You folk's hammering on getting in some wood is starting to sink in just a tad.

Best wishes!

 

[jharkin]

The open floor plan is thanks to me ripping out the moldy hive of plaster-and-lathe rooms on the first floor down to the studs, and making a great room containing kitchen and living area, with a staircase up to the second floor where I've made an open landing and a 20' hall to the bedrooms.

For now the window are cr*p-tastic single-panes with cheap storms. When the wind blows I can feel air currents from the exposed frames, but have put in real headers, and will eventually replace with quality vinyl windows and spray foam insulation. I have aluminum siding over 100 year old shiplap on the first floor and 30 year old particle board (no vapor barrier :shut: ) on the second--man, I'd love stone. So eventually the house will be pretty well insulated, and much tighter, but maybe still fairly leaky--it's just plain old and the second floor exterior walls will remain leaky unless I someday fix them too.

Turn off HGTV. Seriously. Old x= bad.

If your "craptastic" single pane windows are 100+ years old I'd STRONGLY encourage you to reconsider tearing them out. Just upgrade the weatherstripping and put on GOOD wooden framed storms that seal properly and you will have 95% of the performance of a double glazed window at 5% of the cost.

Not to mention those vinyl replacements will need replacing themselves in 20 years. Well maintained wooden windows have lasted centuries.


Dont even get me started on tearing out real plaster to put in wallboard....