red pine in a gasifier?

[pybyr]

I've burned wood for some years as a supplement to oil, but now am aiming to make wood the main heat source, via a gasification boiler (Econoburn) + thermal storage.

I have access to wood that I can cut for free on my folks' property (across the road from me). While there is a fair amount of mixed hardwood, there is an even greater (much greater!) abundance of red pine that was planted as a plantation in a former pasture during the 1950s, and never properly thinned, so now a lot of them are tall and gradually crowding each other out. Along with its abundance, it also happens to be closer to my house than the hardwood.

From what I've been able to find out, red pine also seems to have a relatively low moisture content, and it seems would be quick-seasoning
see (lists "norway pine" which is another name for red pine)
http://mb-soft.com/juca/print/firewood.html
(second table lists moisture contents with % above the 20% desired moisture)

I know that hardwoods have more btus per cord than softwoods- but then again, this is free, which helps. And I know that burning softwoods in a slow fire is a recipe for creosote and chimney fires- but a gasifier run full throttle into storage would seem to avoid the problems associated with creosote.

Anyone have any reaction as to whether red pine will work OK in a gasifier?

Thanks

 

[Eric Johnson]

Red pine will work fine in an Econoburn or other gasifier and you won't get any creosote.

The problem with red pine and most other softwoods is that they don't have nearly the btu value of most hardwoods, but you can certainly burn it during warmer weather, or all winter long if you don't mind loading the boiler more often. You'll have to experiment to see how it goes with different woods.

On the pine, it still might pay to thin them out, because if they're not too far gone, the remaining trees should respond to the extra resources and amount to something (i.e., sawtimber) eventually. The only caution I would have is that if you thin them too aggressively at first, the remaining trees might blow down in the spring, since they don't have the root mass and buttressing wood at the base to keep them vertical. You might want to consult a forester for his/her advice. I'd say that if they're planted in rows, take out every 3rd or 4th row at first, then take out some of the remaining rows in future years. Typically with red pine, you thin out every other row at 15 or 20 years, then every other tree in the remaining rows every 5-10 years, always taking the smaller, weaker, more deformed trees. Eventually, you'll have a nice stand of healthy pines if you do it right, despite the fact that they've been neglected.

 

[DaveBP]

My rule for 30 years of clearing and thinning this Southern Maine woodlot has been that all wood burns if it's dry. If it wasn't good enough to go into my sawmill it went into my woodstove. About the same heat content pound-for-pound, pine maybe even higher with the pitch. Softwood gets burnt by day and during not-so-cold weather and the hardwood goes all night when it's cold. Might be an argument for opting toward the next bigger size firebox to get more pounds in there. I haven't spent a winter with a gassifier experimenting with different woods but there are quite a few on this forum that have.
If you haven't already, learn some basic forestry. Have your local State Forester out for a visit and have them give you pointers on what types of things to look for as you thin that pine lot and maybe recommend appropriate equipment for the layout. Logging winches on small tractors are wonderful things. They are a wonderful resource and have a careerful of local knowledge. Nothing so satisfying as looking at a neglected lot you have been tending for a decade or two and seeing the huge difference knowedgable stewardship can make. Take 'before' photos. Someday you'll be amazed at what you've accomplished.

 

[pybyr]

Thanks Dave and Eric- My dad did have a forester come in and give some advice, and the red pines were thinned on an initial basis about 6 years ago, and it's already made a big difference. There's probably still a lot that I can take out, though, and do it in ways that'll give me fuel, and improve the stand in the long run. The same is true in the hardwoods, which were "high-graded" hard a couple of decades ago, so if I take out some of the thick stuff (some of which is mediocre, like red maple), other things will thrive better in the long run.

 

[Eric Johnson]

Here's a couple shots of my parents' tree farm in central Wisconsin. Most of these trees were crowded at one time, but they responded pretty well to routine thinnings. My folks, who are now in their mid 70s, still make a good living harvesting trees from their land--themselves. Since they (we) always took out the inferior trees in each thinning, what's left is pretty good small sawlog material. When there's no snow on the ground, they cut a chainsaw's worth of gas a day, forward the logs out to a roadside landing, and sell what they produce to a sawmill. Then they go home and take a nap.

 

[Eric Johnson]

Here's a couple more, while I'm at it. I guess I'm pretty proud of my folks. That's me in the first pic, BTW. Since I spent my formative years cutting pulpwood and firewood on the family tree farm, I like to get back there on a regular basis and supervise the progress.

 

[Willman]

A woodlot such as your parents is better than money in the bank in my opinion.
A real fine example of good stewardship.

Will

 

[Eric Johnson]

Thanks!

My maternal grandfather planted around 500 acres of worn-out farmland to pine in the '40s, '50s, '60s. He never cut a tree down in his life. I guess that was for the next generation, because when my mother inherited the farm in the early '70s, my dad and I started thinning with a McCulloch 10-10 chainsaw, a Ford 6000 tractor with a front-end loader and no clue. I was about 14 at the time. We both have degrees from the School of Close Calls and Good Luck. Every summer I go back for a week to cut some wood and relax. The old man always reminds me that "You don't have to be smart because you're young and strong." He's smart and I'm learning. But for the record, he's still pretty strong.

 

[jebatty]

Ideally thinning is done on basal area calculated at DBH. I burn pine almost exclusively (red, white and jack), from slabs, branches and dead trees. But I don't burn any trees with saw timber in them. All of the pines make great lumber, from dimensional to 1'bys or anything else.

 

[Eric Johnson]

Do you have any Scotch pine, Jim?

Our red and white pine plantations are all surrounded by patches of scrub oak, most of which is dying from oak wilt. It isn't worth anything as sawtimber, but it makes great firewood. The white pine, which is native to the area, is moving into the thinned out red oak stands. Longterm, white pine will outperform red pine, but the red is worth more as pulpwood, which makes the thinning pay off.

 

[2.beans]

i burn lots of pine. i get most of it from local tree guys who just need it gone. i can get 8 to 10 hours in 30* weather. the drier the better.

 

[jebatty]

Do you have any Scotch pine, Jim?

Scotch pine is not native in our area, but we planted some. It did well for awhile, suffered first from gophers, then drought, then winter-kill, and it is gradually all dying out. The red, white and jack do very well - dry, sandy soil (dry mesic pine ecological zone).

 

[pybyr]

any sense of how long standing dead red pine takes to get to a burnable moisture level once it's been cut to stove/ boiler length?

thanks

 

[Eric Johnson]

I bet if you cut it in the spring it would be ready to burn by fall.

 

[Nofossil]

'Dead' covers a pretty wide range of moisture content. My experience with white pine is that it dries *much* more quickly than hardwood, and seems to burn better than hardwood when the moisture content is a bit high.

I've split pine in the spring that was so wet that it squirted. By winter it was fine.

 

[Eric Johnson]

Red pine rots pretty quickly on the stump if it's not cut down and dried. So I wouldn't count on getting any usable fuel unless you know the wood is sound.