Regency 5100 - the first few months

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I have not. The stove doesn't seem to over fire even with the draft fully open.
I spoke to the Australian distributor today and he advised me that extensive testing with different flue diameters had been undertaken with this stove and they found that the stove's efficency dropped dramatically with a 6" flue.

8" was the optimal size but a 7" flue (with an 8 to 7" reducer) was considered acceptable also. In fact the Aussie install manual refers to the 8" to 7" reduction as an option as 8" is not common in Oz.
He also said that it is important to reduce flow through the cat to get optimal results/ maximum burn times. Given your situation JJD, it seems Begreen's advice about installing a draft control mechanism to slow your exhaust flow might very well be your best solution outside of course of replacing your whole flue with 8". I hope this helps PT
 
He also said that it is important to reduce flow through the cat to get optimal results/ maximum burn times. Given your situation JJD, it seems Begreen's advice about installing a draft control mechanism to slow your exhaust flow might very well be your best solution outside of course of replacing your whole flue with 8". I hope this helps PT

Just so we have full disclosure, I've got about 3' of 6" pipe from stove top, to a 8x8 clay tile masonry chimney. So I am not running a 100% 6" flue. The chimney is in the 35-40' tall range.

I did _A LOT_ of reading over the weekend about draft control dampers, and bungalow syndrome.

I rarely see my air tube lighting off the gas as it goes into the cat. When I do it lights for a few seconds, and then goes out, stays unlit for 5-10 seconds, and then lights off for a few, and repeats.

I'm beginning to think the draft control on the 5100 is a primary air control and the secondary air has no manual control... but that's a guess. If that were true, my tall stack is probably causing an over-draw on the secondary and the top of the stove is both too cool/ to lean to get a good secondary burn.

So I think I'm going to add a manual damper in the 6" pipe this season, and see if I can slow the air flow down so I can get longer burns and see some secondary burn action.
 
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WOW ... a 12 metre flue ... now that's a monster of a flue when you consider that most tests are undertaken on a + 4.6m (15') flue! Whilst I am certainly no expert, it would seem this might indeed be where your problem lies JJD. Depending upon how the first 3' flue section is configured, perhaps you could just replace that section with an 8" flue section which may be all you need to make a real difference in burn times and therefore extended heat output. Any additional cost for the 8" would surely be recovered in quick time through reduced fuel costs alone I would think. PT
 
Depending upon how the first 3' flue section is configured, perhaps you could just replace that section with an 8" flue section which may be all you need to make a real difference in burn times and therefore extended heat output. Any additional cost for the 8" would surely be recovered in quick time through reduced fuel costs alone I would think. PT

I'm not sure changing 3' of pipe from 6 to 8" would make that much of a difference. certainly the velocity of flow in the 6" pipe is higher than it would be in a 8" pipe, but If the flue is capable of over drafting from a 'restrictive' 6" pipe, then a less restrictive 8" pipe I would think could permit even more draw.
 
Your point certainly seems logical here JJD so perhaps others might be able to confirm the dynamics and relationship between flue dimensions, heights, temperature etc . As I currently understand it, with a lower cross section of flue (i.e. 6" as opposed to 8") it does not require as much heat to heat the air within the flue and therefore increase the draw. Perhaps my understanding is incorrect here and so I will bow out to others with far more knowledge on such issues. PT
 
As I currently understand it, with a lower cross section of flue (i.e. 6" as opposed to 8") it does not require as much heat to heat the air within the flue and therefore increase the draw. Perhaps my understanding is incorrect here and so I will bow out to others with far more knowledge on such issues.

I would believe that the 12 meters of 8" flue have a much greater influence than the 1 meter of 6", and would dominate the behavior of the flue.
 
I suspect you are probably right JJD but that first 3' might be a big deal given that it is directly connected to your stove. It would be interesting to see what others might think and suggest here. Also, I was flicking back through this thread and I noticed MrBigLog (who is a new F5100 owner also) made a few comments back on the 19 September 2013. He seemed pretty impressed and happy with his stove but didn't really give any details other than he was running a straight 8" flue. It would be interesting (if he is still tuned into this thread) to hear what burn times he is achieving (type of wood, temperatures etc.) and how he is actually setup (i.e. is he in a multistorey building like yourself or single storey for example ... flue height etc). Whilst I am considering a number of tertiary aspects about the stove I will eventually get, I am nevertheless seriously considering this stove myself (given the warranty and the advertised burn times) and have made some preliminary enquires here in Oz. However, I find myself somewhat stymied by few reviews or comments (outside of your detailed and excellent review JJD) about the appliance in general so it makes it a little harder to grasp the nettle because the overall costs to acquire and install one in Oz is high by comparison to the US so I have to get it right the first time around. PT
 
My stove and situation are slightly different but I have an idea that helped my as I run to a 8" Thimble in a masonry flue thats something like 7" x 11" of the main masonry flue.

I had alot of trouble running 6" pipe to a larger flue with 8" thimble.

I put an adapter right on top of the stove and rain 8" pipe all the way to the flue.

Trying to feed such a tall large volume flue from a smaller volume 6" run of pipe seems to be the issue.

The only way I can explain it helped me and my operation of a non-cat stove is this:

The hottest part of the flue system is at the top of the stove. Being able to run 8" pipe with a larger volume of air flowing from the hottest part of the stove giving you a larger volume of hotter air moving up to your masonry flue helps the balance of the system.

So in your situation you need to feed your chimney with all 8" pipe to make sure the system balance is right.

Plus like begreen mentioned a damper will give you some adjustment if your draft is too strong.

I wonder with such a tall flue what have alot of draft what kind of wind tunnel effect of pulling thru a 6" pipe like you have , does that increase velocities?


I would paint the basement with white paint , I used Valspar Duramax from lowes. White is highly heat radiation reflective. Most your heat from a wood stove is radiated heat. Those basement walls absorb alot of the radiated heat if just plain block walls. Putting a semi gloss paint like duramax which has ceramic dusts in it for durability makes it highly radiated type heat reflective. This helped me alot heating from my basement wood heat.
 
So in your situation you need to feed your chimney with all 8" pipe to make sure the system balance is right.

I can not. The thimble is 6". I could run 8" from stove to thimble, but that's the best I could do.


I would paint the basement with white paint ....
already done =)
 
You say you have an 8 by 8 class a chimney with a 6 " crock are you sure that is right? class a is round and the connection at the bottom would be the same as the flue size. all that being said with the height of your stack that short peice of 6" is not going to make much difference at all. i would try a damper it might help. I have one on mine that is 30' tall and it made a big difference in heat output. but my stove is totally different. But i would bet you are over drafting it and loosing allot of heat and shortening your burn times significantly.
 
You say you have an 8 by 8 class a chimney with a 6 " crock are you sure that is right?

the chimney builder put a 8x8 as a horizontal from the flue into the room.

When my stove guy went to do the install he was a bit perplexed as he had never seen it done this way. The 8x8 was chipped out and a 6" round was installed to replace it. He told me 8" round was unavailable from the local masonry supply places.

But i would bet you are over drafting it and loosing allot of heat and shortening your burn times significantly.

Thats my working theory right now too.
 
So it is a clay lined chimney not a class a?
 
ok i didnt see that sorry i was confused by it thats all.
 
G'day JJD and all,

I found this YouTube video on the Regency F5100 that might be of interest. Unfortunately, the video poster does not give any details about performance other than when he last loaded it (i.e. 3pm the day before) and the time he is loading it as he speaks (i.e. 7am). Not sure where he is located but he mentions "cord wood" so I am guessing North America. You might also notice that he is running with what appears to be an 8" flue, which is what is recommended in the US. Regency Australia has advised that a 7" flue is also acceptable (using an 8" to 7" reducer) given the hardwoods we burn (i.e. a little more draft is not detrimental). My thinking is that I would stick to 8" so as to reduce the rate of exhaust through the cat combustor to get more bang for my buck with hopefully much extended burn times than advertised using our Australian high density hardwoods.

Anyway, here's the link ....

I hope this helps

PeterT
 
So its time for some updates.

This year I've added/changed:
8" pipe from stove top to wall. Still reduces to 6" to through the wall, but that is now a < 12" run of clay tile.
Added an airmate
added a 'pie plate' style draft damper in the 8" pipe about 18" above the top of the stove. Unless we are loading wood, or trying to get up to cat-active temps, we generally run the damper 80% or more closed

Whats changed:

My wood consumption is down 30%, or more.
Its now easy to get the stove into cat mode, and keep it there for 12-15 hours.
The secondary air tube often shows combustion prior to entering the cat.
After coming home from a 10 hour work day, there are LOTS of coals to get a new fire going
House has a more even temp throughout all 3 levels
Whole house humidifier on the heat pump has no problem keeping up with the humidity needs (set to 40%)

So the theory of over-drafting seems proven out. Now that I can control the draft, I'm getting the burn times, heat output, overall house comfort etc... that I expected.

Thanks for the advice, and I'm now much happier with my stove.
 
G'day JJD,

Thanks for the update mate and glad to hear that things have improved significantly with what appears like minor improvements. As yet, I have still not decided upon whether to acquire this stove or not as the quoted acquisition/install price is still approximately $A5K. As a disabled military veteran every dollar counts I am afraid :-(. If I do acquire the stove for a fairer installed price then I would definitely provide a follow up review here for the benefit of others ... perhaps a video review, which might help to better illustrate the environment and some of the other considerations in which the stove would be operating.

Anyway, thanks again mate.

Cheers

PeterT
 
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yes, all in all very low cost improvements that mad a big difference in how the stove it running. Had to say if this stove is a good value to you, and your needs. My initial go-in had been a blaze-king, but the wife vetoed it on looks. Not sure why as it was sitting in a unfinished basement where gusts never go, but alas she who must be obeyed was, and we looked for a different model.

I would imagine unless you were in an area where you had a lot of heating cost, and access to low-cost wood, it would be hard to see the pay back on a $5k expenditure in a reasonable time frame.
 
yes, all in all very low cost improvements that mad a big difference in how the stove it running. Had to say if this stove is a good value to you, and your needs. My initial go-in had been a blaze-king, but the wife vetoed it on looks. Not sure why as it was sitting in a unfinished basement where gusts never go, but alas she who must be obeyed was, and we looked for a different model.

I would imagine unless you were in an area where you had a lot of heating cost, and access to low-cost wood, it would be hard to see the pay back on a $5k expenditure in a reasonable time frame.

G'day JJD,

Sorry for my delayed response mate but thanks again for your follow up post above.

Unfortunately the Blaze King range of stoves is not available here in Oz and I confirmed with Chris (aka 'BKVP') that this situation is not likely to change in the foreseeable future. It pains me that it is against the law to install a stove that has not been fully tested and accepted to Australian and New Zealand compliance standards, which I feel only negates potentially legitimate overseas compliant models. Indeed, I tend to feel that there should be a more open acceptance of various international recognised compliance standards so as to facilitate the mutual recognition of higher threshold compliant stoves. If this happened, then it would conceivably reduce unnecessary testing costs, thereby reducing downstream costs to end consumers, which in turn might improve the direct distribution and penetration of more efficient and lower emission stoves for all concerned. I feel current Australian & NZ standards ultimately preclude (due to cost and perhaps even vested interests also) access to potentially superior products such as some those offered by Blaze King and WoodStove Soapstone, just to name a few.

There is no doubt that the upfront cost of approx. $5K for the F5100 is an initial barrier to entry for me, but then the alternate operating costs for NG and/or electric heating here in Oz can be and are frightfully expensive also I'm afraid. By way of example, my first winter in this house, which is quite a bit larger and more open planned than my last house, the NG bill for the first 90 days was approx. $2,100 and the bill over the same period for electricity was approx. $1,200 (mainly attributable to in-slab electric floor heating). Suffice to say I saw the need to turn off the gas and in-slab heaters and ordered my family to don on their flak jackets and battle helmets to not only battle cost but the cold as well. :) Regrettably, we were then forced to arc up our old inefficient open fireplace (Jetmaster 700D) for that winter and subsequent winters also .... (delays here were twofold in that changes to A&NZ standards had not been ratified and there was also a real chance that our state government here in the Australian Capital Territory (the state/territory where the city of Canberra is situated) signalled that they might go ahead ban wood heaters outright. As a consequence, I could ill afford to do anything until these situations had been completely resolved ... they have only now been resolved in the last few months to some level of confidence).

Whilst Canberra winters are generally colder than most other places in Oz, they are considered relatively mild by comparison to your winters in North America. We might get the odd -8 deg C (~17 deg F) temps here at night but temps of this nature are only once in a blue moon events and the days normally average around 5-15deg C (41-58 Deg F).

Whilst grid supplied NG / electricity costs are not easily overcome at the outset, the flip side and the reason for my active investigation and entry into the wood heating arena is that I do have reasonable access to some low cost / no cost firewood. So the up front cost of the F5100, whilst expensive, would be somewhat amortised quickly over time I feel ... although the replacement cost of the catalyst is yet another unknown cost consideration here. If I had to buy fire wood at approx. $300/tonne at an average and expected consumption rate of 3-6 tonne per year, with possibly having to replace the cat every 5 years or so, and the labour involved also, then on balance it all might all prove to be of questionable valued (as you suggest) for sure.

Finally, I have also investigated and considered wood fired furnaces as another possible option as they (as a ducted heating system) are generally excluded from current A&NZ Standards. However, upon casual investigation I have generally found that their emission and efficiency rates don't seem to rate as well by comparison to some of the free standing wood stove models we have generally discussed here on the various Hearth.com forums. As such, I am particularly sensitive to achieving lower emission rates in the first instance as I remain conscious of possible regulatory enforcements and the health impacts to neighbours and my own family as well. But then all of this is for naught also because wood fired furnaces are not readily available in Oz and the outright cost to ship one here would be highly prohibitive I suspect.

Anyway, I hope your heating situation with the F5100 continues to progress well mate and that your winter this year is more one of pleasurable snow skiing and bob sledding than one of having to sit a top of your F5100 to try and stay warm .... :)

Cheers

PeterT
 
$1100 a month on natural gas and electricity in a climate that mild is stunning. 6000 to 12000 pounds a year of firewood comes to about 2 to 4 cords of hardwood, which here at an expensive cost of $350 per cord would run $700 to 1400 for the season....(most people in NA pay considerably less than $350 per cord, though)...less than your $900-$1800 cost. Your projected $900 to $1800 for the season is still considerably less than the quoted $1100 per month for electric+ Natural gas.....What is your cost per KWh for electric?
 
$1100 a month on natural gas and electricity in a climate that mild is stunning. 6000 to 12000 pounds a year of firewood comes to about 2 to 4 cords of hardwood, which here at an expensive cost of $350 per cord would run $700 to 1400 for the season....(most people in NA pay considerably less than $350 per cord, though)...less than your $900-$1800 cost. Your projected $900 to $1800 for the season is still considerably less than the quoted $1100 per month for electric+ Natural gas.....What is your cost per KWh for electric?

G'day Rideau,

Thanks for the comments.

Depending upon where you are located within Australia well then the flat rate cost of electricity can vary anywhere up to 33cents per Kwh. Market rates may prove to be more favourable if you can shift consumption onto lower tariffs but as you will see below the average c/Kwh is still relatively high by comparison to say average US rates, which I believe are still pegging around 12-13c/Kwh (i.e. the last time I looked on EIA). Anyway, here is a recent graph from an independent analysis that perhaps helps to illustrate the fact:

upload_2014-12-30_20-17-4.png

PeterT
 
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Hey all,

So I am noticing a problem with this stove. It seems as if the air control has very little movement on it. Aka not 100% control.

It only slides a bit open/closed. Has anyone else noticed this? I got under the stove and noticed that when it is fully shut (all the way to the right) the shutter is not completely closed and air can still leak in. The stove is getting about an 8 to 10 hour burn time and I suspect this is the reason.

I am just looking for any solutions (if anyone has noticed this same problem) and also for anyone with the stove to let me know if they also notice that the air control lever only slides a bit each way.

If you look @ the air control on say the CS2400 or even the F3500 you will notice it slides A LOT more - and completely cuts the air off.

Thank you for any replies beforehand
 
It only slides a bit open/closed. Has anyone else noticed this? I got under the stove and noticed that when it is fully shut (all the way to the right) the shutter is not completely closed and air can still leak in. The stove is getting about an 8 to 10 hour burn time and I suspect this is the reason.

I would call Regency and ask them if that is not part of the stove design. Could be that for complete combustion some primary air is still needed or the primary and secondary air are linked. (The CS2400, F3500 may have separate secondary air inlets, with the CS2400 being a completely different, non-hybrid design anyway.)
 
Hey all,

So I am noticing a problem with this stove. It seems as if the air control has very little movement on it. Aka not 100% control.

It only slides a bit open/closed. Has anyone else noticed this? I got under the stove and noticed that when it is fully shut (all the way to the right) the shutter is not completely closed and air can still leak in. The stove is getting about an 8 to 10 hour burn time and I suspect this is the reason.

I am just looking for any solutions (if anyone has noticed this same problem) and also for anyone with the stove to let me know if they also notice that the air control lever only slides a bit each way.

If you look @ the air control on say the CS2400 or even the F3500 you will notice it slides A LOT more - and completely cuts the air off.

Thank you for any replies beforehand
Wow, 8-10 hours? I get that with $600 dollar craigslist stoves. I hope you figure something out to improve burn times. That's pretty sorry considering the price tag!
 
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