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Regency i3100 Insert Baffle

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Benny4117, Jan 31, 2013.

  1. Benny4117

    Benny4117 New Member

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    Been reading and learning alot over the last few weeks and finally making first post. I purchased my first wood stove insert (Regency i3100) over the summer and started burning this past Novemeber. I actually have a question hoping to get some help with: I was cleaning stove out today and notice the top right baffle on the stove(when looking inside the stove) seems to be slightly curved (Does not lay flat on top of the air tubes- front edge is raised roughly a 1/4") ......So a few questions (1) Is that normal ?(2)Whats causes that? and(3) Does it need to be replaced asap or safe to continue to burn as is?...... Thanks the the help in advance!

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  2. KB007

    KB007 Feeling the Heat

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    Ours seemed to curve a little after the first few months. Been running like that for over 2 years now.

    So long as the baffles are together, slightly overlapped and pushed back, seems to work just fine.
  3. TTigano

    TTigano Member

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    Just make sure the baffles are pushed fully back and to the left and right. You should be fine. Can you upload a picture?
  4. Benny4117

    Benny4117 New Member

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    Just wanted wanted to make sure its safe to run stove this weekend......i was checking to make sure that they were push all the way back and then L & R and that how i noticed it. I will see if i can get pic uploaded over the weekend.
  5. G Talbot

    G Talbot New Member

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    Re I3100 and baffle issues, ditto for me, but only since 2013 and the last 2 baffle sets. I am on current as well as preceding set of baffles, getting baffle curve, shrinkage and increased gapping.

    The baffles after a few weeks of burning are no longer sitting flat on the air tubes....and not surprisingly air tubes 2 and 3 are popping out occasionally on hot fires....seems like connected issue.

    Baffle curve is also accentuating the gap in the baffle middle where it is now impossible to get baffle overlap, in my case almost 1" spacing which the overlap cannot accomodate.

    Am pretty sure that the Regency baffle set 063-955) is actually undersized in width for the I3100, as a friend with the midsized F2400 (a different baffle set) has no gap and has perfectly tight original baffles from 12 years ago...my baffles need changing yearly (about 12 cords of hardwood).

    My 3 year old I3100 is also deforming rapidly on the spot welded deflector plate at the top just behind the holes and in comparison once again to my friend's F2400, there is zero deformity although his F2400 is actualy 4x years older

    anyone else having these issues with the I3100?

    Attached Files:

  6. bholler

    bholler Minister of Fire

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    Sounds to me like you are overfireing it we sell regencys and honestly we rarely replace any baffles. the deflector has been a bit of an issue the new ones are replaceable. We have cut out a few and replaced them with bolt in ones


    probably not a big deal but post a few pics or get your dealer out to look at it if it is warped it will be covered by warantee
  7. bholler

    bholler Minister of Fire

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    That is another sign of over fire it can be fixed by simply squeezing the notch closed a little bit but you need to change your burning practices or your stove wont last long at all
  8. G Talbot

    G Talbot New Member

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    Thank you for your comments on overfiring as the likely cause of the issues I am encountering.

    your Comment about over firing begs this question:

    If the door is only opened for wood loading and the door is airtight, as proven by a closed air intake causing a rapid choking of the fire to a creosote burn, how can the unit be over firing? Am i missing something?

    Am concerned yes that the issues currently manifesting themselves will become more serious.

    We do a continuous burn of 24 hours, for a 5-6 month season in (Montreal), and consume 10-12 facecords of dry maple yearly. The stove is the primary heat source for a 2,200 sq ft 2 story bungalow, with electric baseboards and convection as secondary heat sources. Are we exceeding the rated capacity of this stove? Is that even possible?

    Baffles (063-955) on an I3100 are made small and gap even when new, by my experience (barely overlap, when set tight on sides). By my stove calculation the hearth width of an I3100 is 568MM or about 22 3/8" and the baffle brick widths are 280 mm on the rough side and 264 mm on the smooth side or 11 1/8" and 10 3/8" respectively.

    so the I3100 Hearth width less baffle coverage 568-544=24 mm or about an inch of missing coverage for the baffles.
    Conversely the F2400 medium stove with it's different baffle set has a zero gap in baffle coverage.

    Is the I3100 over firing because the baffle set or deflector set is defective and are my issues accelerated by our firing and consumption being more than average?

    The General picture is of a 3 log burn at half air intake, Regency fan at low, upper customs fans at low, measuring 390F degrees on the front upper center face above door and a 585F degree in the hearth....fan at low 95% of burn time

    This my second I3100, Regency replaced Vermont casting 12 years ago and over a 12 year period have consumed about 150 cords of wood in I3100 and am still learning, but somewhat experienced and now confused and concerned

    Attached Files:

  9. bholler

    bholler Minister of Fire

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    If you let the air open to long or to much you will over fire it. You should have it shut down half way at the absolute most after you get the secondaries burning. Have you talked to regency about your baffles? I just installed a 3100 on tuesday and there was no gap so i don't know what the problem is with yours it is strange. Granted you go through allot more wood than we are used to down here but are you saying that in 12 years you went through one stove and have already done that to your next one? there is something wrong there. And by the way i am not trying to be critical or insulting at all i hope it hasn't come across that way
  10. G Talbot

    G Talbot New Member

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    BHoller, thank you for your observations, no offense, am looking for solutions that would prevent potentially killing the stove.

    Am somewhat surprised that the baffles you installed in a I3100 had a zero gapping, i have not seen baffles that did not gap ever in the more than several sets i have installed over a 12 year period...were they the (063-955) unit or did Regency recently redesign the baffles hummmm, looking forward to receiving new baffles ordered a few weeks ago, maybe they have finally resized them appropriately.

    My History is that we inherited on the home purchase a vermont Casting insert that we used in evenings and weekends from 1991-2003...a beautiful gorgeous unit in ceramic, with 2 doors, georgeous but highly inefficient and it consumed wood like no tomorrow, with constant dirty glass, needed full air to operate, it was ok for occasional mood fires and not much more.

    We had a power outage iin 1998 that lasted 3 weeks in early January (the result of the great Eastern ice storm) it was painful to heat the one family room that became our home, with the VC, loading every 2 hours for 24 hrs a day and we used candles in bathrooms and basement to prevent plumbing freeze, tough times....so we knew that we needed an alternate more efficient heat source, to makeup for unreliable hydro....burned once twice shy.

    In 2003, the VC needed big tuning, so instead, we sold it used and bought our 1st Regency I3100 after a long and extensive study, Regency and Pacific were the finalists and Regency won on a close call. The Regency I3100 generated a wow factor from day 1, it is one heck of a stove/insert and it did the job amazingly, we love this stove.

    The 2003 I3100 and the new chimney liner (smaller for Regency than VC), were installed by the dealer (it has about 18' of chimney), within the existing brick fireplace and brick chimney of our 1976 home.

    On the very 1st install and before the very 1st fire, I noticed the baffles were loose, but they did overlap, needing to be pushed to the sides as per the diagram in the manual which shows about a 1/8 to 1/4" gap (this gapping was assumed as it is not defined in the manual), manual only shows a slight gap at the center overlap, tight to sides....strange to me, but manual showed similar confirguration, so must be ok.

    From 2003-2011, the 1st I3100 burned about 100 cords, a fantastic heat source and all was wonderful, replaced chipped baffles about every 2nd year, at chimney sweep time (movement and chipping because they are loose?).
    In the 8th year of use and at about 100 cords, the I3100 developed micro cracks in the upper corners behind the doors and it became a safety concern for unattended burn. The 1st I3100 also warped on the deflector in it's 1st years as well, an obvious engineering flaw that Regency seems to be addressing this year with what I hearsay of fixes and changes on the deflector.(a 12 year to do fix?) Seems obvious to me that the spot weld was an issue and that solid weld was probable solution, but Regency seemed in denial of problems.

    So in 2011 we had a cracked stove face, wow, working with dealer put together a case with many pictures and Regency accepted to replace the stove and shipped to dealer. I was faced with the job of de-installing, transporting the used stove to dealer, transporting and unloading the new stove and finally installing the new insert stove in its tight space. Everyone had blood in the game and i was ok with that, assuming i had hit a one time lemon, but the I3100 is heavy and installation is hard work to that I would rather not do it again....it is a 3-4 man job of transport and installation. did it all with 2 people, but an unsafe practice am not willing to do again.

    So now on my 2nd unit, 3 years in, puzzling over what is going on, having newfound friend with similar burn habits using the mid sized F2400, 12 years old original everything and no signs of wear....Huh?
    and i ask myself the question, does the i3100 have engineering issues, could smaller undersized baffles be the issue causing other issues, as it is the only thing i see as different, between midsize and full size units, baffles, air tubes and bricks, else all is similarly engineered, between mid size and full size.
    So do others have problems with the I3100 and/or do not know it yet...Regency is being mysterious that all is ok and seemingly in denial again.
    The Baffle curving issue did not happen until the 2013 set...from 2003-2011 they chipped on handling (cleaning time) but they did not curve, air tubes between 2003-2011 did not unclip on their own, correction maybe once, likely bad clip.
    Something brewing, i just don't know what, yet.

    For comparison below is a recent similar staged picture of a 12 yr F2400 (with original baffles and air tubes) vs. my I3100 that has recent baffles (October 2014).

    Would be nice to know if other I3100 customers are seeing changes in their firebox, like curving baffles, warping deflectors, falling air tubes and such.

    addendum: sent to pictures of my I3100 issues to Regency, their reply was "Normal wear and tear", dont worry be happy, which prompted me to go looking for a forum....heart.com may be my newfound best friend....smile

    Thanks

    Gil

    Attached Files:

  11. bholler

    bholler Minister of Fire

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    Like i said before i see that in stoves where the customer consistently burns with the air half way open or more. You will get more heat out of them if you close them down a little more. The deflector is an issue they have fixed but will not acknowledge it was an issue. Like i said we have cut out a few and bolted new ones in the first one is 5 years old and still holding up. The 1/8" to 1/4" gap is the norm any tighter and it would be a pain to remove them.
  12. baysideburner

    baysideburner New Member

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    I have the same stove I have no problems with the burn tubes likeu are showing..but from the white color of the tubes looks like you are burning mauybe too hot. I believe this I
  13. baysideburner

    baysideburner New Member

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    Continuing my last post I think this is also causing your baffles towarp. Do u take any stove temps as your burning.do you constantly have fast long orange flames lapping over and out the flue pipe..are all your burn tubes glowing red..are your baffles glowing red if so you are burning to hot
  14. bholler

    bholler Minister of Fire

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    exactly what i said
  15. G Talbot

    G Talbot New Member

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    Interesting comments all
    mine is a 24 hour burning cycle for many month, the size of fire is dependant on outdoor temps
    That taken picture was done mid day after the early attended fire of 1-3 small logs, the small hot fire that in my 24 cycle cleans off cresote built up overning.....in the morning after the big loaded overnight smoulder, the I3100 is sooty black, tubes and bricks are black, if in our quantity was to that all the time, there would be a tremendous creosote buildup and a very strong probability of an unatteneded chimney fire (very scary proposition for me).

    With our 2 cycle burning methods, we still achieve an average of a once a year chimney clean (10-12 FC consumed) of about a gallon of creosote total at yearly cleaning...the probability of soot buildup increases with large constant smouldering fires and would mean multiple cleanings per year in our consumption..our 45 degree French Canadian pitch roof is not much fun to climb onto during winter season, for the cap and chimney cleaning (therefore chimney cleaning is a summer early fall job, involving professioanal and includes a full inspection. Most creosote buildup is my years of experience is at he cooler top of the chimney flue and chimney cap.

    To note that have i never experienced red hot air tubes or baffles as i have read experienced elsewhere. The fan at high and air intake torque down will cool the stove very rapidly.

    To my knowledge over fire, in an airtight stove is a sign of very large fire with full air and/or a non airtight stove (typically a door sealing leak)


    Have a 3 fan system, to cool down stove and move heat to inner home
    1: regency dual squirrel fans at bottom draw cool aire, fan usually at low continuous and quiete (replaced once because lubrification nearly impossible in the configuration)
    2: Custom squirrel fan built into the bottom and behind of the mantel with a reostat blowing top warm air back across tip and face of the fireplace (recuperation and cooling) insert of course less efficient than stove, so this makes up...a little
    3: Blower fans which i built into a false wall on a separate reostat (brick chimney 3.5" behind) and recuperating stored heat form chimney and stove top, and pushing this warm air back into the room for natural progression via ceiling fans into the remainder of home....stove interior can be 550F, stove face 425, stove wall 95F, yes family room can get pretty warm, in the 80's F next to stove to achive 68 F in adjoining rooms

    Life is full of compromise, have done several adjustments and tapped out on further improvements....may be as good as it gets but does the job nicely in sub zero F temperatures

    My Friend with the F2400 is closeby and on a similar cycle to mine, smaller home, basement setup, more chimney, but else similar except for firebox size, my I3100 is aging faster than his F2400, therefore the hummmm

    Looking forward in th next few weeks to more discussion with Regency I3100 and F3100 users, am making it a project.

    BTW, must be manufacturing tolerances, because my (2) I3100's are slightly different, primarily on air intake and cold startup even though flue and door is the same...go figure

    what works in Rome may not work in Athens...smile

    but general methods and practices are the same, keeping an open mind, looking forward to making continued discoveries, am i killing my stove trying to heat 2,200 sq ft in our climate, good question, unanswered right now
  16. baysideburner

    baysideburner New Member

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    I never let my fires burn that cool overnite..what I found to work best Is
  17. baysideburner

    baysideburner New Member

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    Is to burn long hot fires getting the house as warm as possible until around an hour before bed letting it burn down as much as possible even cracking the door to speed up the coal bed burning down.then just before bed I get as much wood as possible in there with plenty of large splits so it doesnt take off while im sleeping. I get good secondary action turn it down then turn in..this acomplishes two things..clean glass in the morning and not having to burn it too fast to try to catch up heating the house in the morning
    bholler likes this.
  18. G Talbot

    G Talbot New Member

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    excellent baysideburner, looks like you are also new to the forum and sounds like you know your stove

    Are you using a Regency I3100 insert?
    If so Have you had it for awhile?
    Any issues?
  19. G Talbot

    G Talbot New Member

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    Just drove into the city today to a Regency dealer open on Sunday, (nice)

    Had a good look at the new 3100 model on display and happy to see a recent redesign on the deflector to a plate as described by bholler....the new 3100 now has a separate deflector, that looks to be made in stainless or alloy, clipping onto 2 frame bolts...nice, vs. the spot welded cast iron deflector of the previous 3100 series, i own.
    Wonder if this new deflector can be retrofitted to an older 3100, by removal of the damaged iron weld unit & bolt addition?
    A picture below of a new (medium) deflector part number is 820-483D for a medium stove, part number not yet known for the 3100 and does not yet appear in the parts list of the latest I3100 manual on Regency website, the stove seems redesigned but the manual redesign has not followed?...yet

    Also checked baffles and sizing with a tape and it is as if the baffle set 063-955 ceramic bricks have been increased in width by 5mm on the rough side, for increased and better overlap..again confirming bholler's recent indication of a nice tight fit of the baffles on a new 3100 installation...picture below, am impressed and crossing my fingers, dealer checking with Regency as no specs on these parts published

    All in all if that be true, Regency has finally addressed the 2 issues I am aware of, that have been plaguing the 3100 for a dozen years of more.... better late than never...really hoping I can apply these fixes to my 3100 and will continue investigation.

    addendum: new stove has very fine manufactured lines in the 2 uppers corners....this is exactly where the faceplate cracked on my 3100 in 2011....hummmmm

    Attached Files:

  20. bholler

    bholler Minister of Fire

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    Like i said we have cut out the old ones 5 or 6 times and replaced them with bolt in ones. We have the new ones made up out of 1/8" steel and drill and tap the stove for the new bolts
  21. baysideburner

    baysideburner New Member

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    Yes that was my first post but I have been reading on this forum for about two years.my hampton I
  22. baysideburner

    baysideburner New Member

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    I also have the newer model w no issues
  23. G Talbot

    G Talbot New Member

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    Thanks for clarifying,
    so if the new deflector is now becoming a separately available Regency part, it could/should remove the step of mfg. a custom part for each unit...the tapping and drilling would still be required on the 1st retrofit....but it looks like the design of the new part is that the part installation is done via a clip of the deflector to bolts sunken into the frame (a new design altogether) vs. the old spot weld steel attachment. This engineering change at 1st view, looks like a very good design for installation or part replacement. Hats off to Regency, looks like they are finally coming through, although it took awhile....smile.

    If Regency chose stainless, or white metal or an alloy as the material, I would assume that with their tests, they were striving for increased durability and that the "idependance" from body should better accomodate heating and cooling cycles....by providing some play for the expansion/constriction of the heating/cooling cycles..hence the spring clip concept.....smart and liking it.

    In your experience bholler, is the cost of retrofitting entirely a customer $ responsibility or does Regency help?

    Can you also clarify the following bholler, It is my understanding that the deflector's primary purpose is to create a wash effect over the glass, reducing the buildup that may be happening in a slow burn. i have not seen that written anywhere, but would you agree that is the likely purpose of the deflector?

    Thanks again for your tip on a bolt on retrofit, it is what motivated me to go see a new 3100 and upon seeing the redesign I am optimistic on long term use of the stove.....the 3100 really is a very good product as a heat source.
  24. bholler

    bholler Minister of Fire

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    if we sold the stove we do it if the front manifold is cracked which is what will happen if you let it go then we submit it for a replacement stove.


    It also seems to keep the intense heat off of that front manifold. But from the look of yours you need to reduce your internal temps or replacing that deflector will not save your stove
  25. G Talbot

    G Talbot New Member

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    The burn tubes in the 3100 picture i posted tubes 1-3 are original to 2003 and are from my very 1st 3100 unit. They have about 150 FC cords of burn, are straight and in great shape. When Regency replaced the unit in 2011, it came in bare bones, no door, no air tubes, no bricks, so all of the original old components were moved to the new i3100 body, but the new 3100 did come with new ceramic baffles and the rear 1"air tube in place.

    Everything else (components) of my current 2011 stove are from the original 2003 installed I3100. This summer 2014 i did replace baffles and many bricks, as especially the bottom bricks had become quite pitted and had become very "lighweight dry" after 12 years of use. I have no complaints on anything about this 3100 stove, except for the baffles and the deformed deflector....and it looks promising for fixes forthcoming on my monly 2 issues.

    In time am pretty sure that anyone using older 3100 models will eventually encounter the deflector issue and will need to replace baffles. Baffles are warrantied by Regency, so intact baffles are more than likely a key to the longevity of the stove...i supect defective baffles may create symptoms of over firing as well as higher fuel consumption rate as the baffles create a more indirect route of exhaust (i believe i have seen this referred to as secondary burn, in conjunection with reduced air intake)

    If i wipe a rag on my original 2003 air tubes 1-3, they look like new. They are white in the picture because the picture was done after the Regency recommended 15-45 morning burn open air cycle, which has the purpose of cleaning out any accumulated "long cycle/overnight" burn which does generate some creosote.
    Creosote "brownish/black", burns out to white powder once burned off.

    Once again, my seasonal creosote buildup is a gallon or less from a 10-12 FC burn, most of the crosote being in the last upper 6' of the liner, attic and the great outside, where it is cooler.

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