Relined my Quad 7100 with Skamol panels

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ernie

Member
Nov 21, 2005
75
Missouri
I thought it might be interesting for everyone to see my Quad 7100 fireplace before and after photos of my reline. There was nothing wrong with the firebrick in my Quad except I think it would look better with the Skamol or Skamolex panels. Since I can cut them any way I want, I was able to make them taller than standard firebrick so that they go all the way to the upper baffle in the back. They have mortar joint groves and make the inside much more attractive. They may not be a durable as firebrick, that will be the test. Notice I also put andirons in my unit.
It has also been mentioned about the upper baffle cracking in these units, mine is cracked so I may try replacing it with this material also at a later date.

What do you think?

Ernie
 

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That looks great but I wonder if the fire box will get too hot and burn faster?
 
I dont know if it will burn faster or not. It has not gotten cold enought yet to burn for any lenght of time. We shall see and maybe report back later.

Ernie
 
Todd said:
That looks great but I wonder if the fire box will get too hot and burn faster?

Why would it get too hot? The 1-1/4" pumice bricks are better insulators than 1" Skamol.
 
I just like the look of the Skamol panels better than the bricks.
So far seem to be holding up well and I think my glass is staying cleaner.
Ernie
 
I'm sure they'll hold up just fine. Likely differences should be small - a little slower warmup, a little longer heat retention.

Where did you buy the material?
 
Im the UK agent for Skamol and have plenty of service experience with the material.

The vermiculite material efficiency is a better insulator than firebrick and it may seem odd to insulate a firebox when you want higher efficiencies but its a proven fact that insulated combustion chambers in most stoves will increase efficiency, give a cleaner burn and lower ash residues. Because of expansion and contractiuon at high temperature you need to make sure you have some clearance around the panels 1/8" being typical.

To get good efficiencies you need to vaporise every ounce of the fuel load in order to release all of the potential energy, thereby maximising potential heat so insulation lower down in a stove is good. Traditional cement type bricks have relatively low insulation values, if you hold them in your hand they feel cold (heat sink) whereas vermiculite feels warm (insulator) so if you want an efficient burn then you need to insulate low down in the stove. Higher up above the baffle you need to recover heat so insulation is a bad thing.

By vaporising every ounce of the fuel your glass will stay clean longer because particles deposit on the coldest surfaces and if theres less particles and its all a bit hotter then this means less soot. That also means less soot up the flue and less residues to deash from the stove. Many manufacturers over here now dont bother with ashpans built in as deashing is carried out so rarely.

The material shown looks like a 700 density material and this will happily lst 3 years, it wont fall apart but it will over time get eroded from careless loading of fuel.

As for baffles, some manufacturers make these succesfully in vermiculite but you have to ensure they have room round them for expansion and contraction and because you are in a safety critical area that any failure of the material will not lead to the flueway becoming blocked. Its better to make bigger baffles in several pieces if possible to make expansion and contraction easier for the material.

Skamol Vermiculite is now the lining material of choice for the majority of new stoves here in Europe because it is effective and is often the difference between passing and failing emission tests.
 
gasfireman,
Thanks for weighing in on the Skamol material, but your post is just a bit too laden with promotional material for my liking. I think you'll do better on this forum if you concentrate on relevant facts and do less marketing work.

The vermiculite material efficiency is a better insulator than firebrick
Not true. It is a better insulator than the old-style heavy clay firebrick, but it is not better than the lighter insulating firebrick. This has been covered many times on this forum - we know the difference.

The material shown looks like a 700 density material and this will happily last 3 years, it wont fall apart but it will over time get eroded from careless loading of fuel.
I have been expounding the relative virtues of Skamol material here for a couple years, especially when compared to commonly used cast iron, but I find your statement troubling. You're basically giving the material a useful service life of 3 years as a lining material, at which point one is facing imminent replacement. Here in the USA, that is a very expensive and difficult proposition, because NOONE is selling the material. It so happens that, last night, I once again searched the internet, wanting to buy a Skamolex panel, and came up empty. A few sources will sell you five panels, but noone will sell just one (panels are roughly 40"x24"x1"). The problem is, in its standard size, the material is easily damaged in transit. So until the material is more readily available in sizes and quantities that make sense for the end user, it remains problematical.

The pumice insulating firebricks in my Quad stove are going on their 4th year of service with no visible wear. Someone recently posted they are going on the 17th year with theirs. A predicted service life of only three years is a real drawback.
 
Precaud

Theres a huge difference between a manufacturer who quotes a service life on an item to the actual life. You can drive a car a lot further than their service intervals but manufacturers have to warrant product and as material suppliers we have to be very cautious because there is considerable product abuse in the market place and our lifetimes do take into account the idiots using poor fuel, coals, peat, petcokes etc etc and overfiring till stoves glow red.

Fact is, treated properly linings wont degrade appreciably as there is no binder loss so it doesnt weaken, however, its abrasion and someone scuttling in coal or throwing logs will damage the linings but logs placed properly are no problem. I first used Skamol in 1998 when I was working on vent free gas product development. I have seen units from that era come back like new including showroom models running 8 hours a day, 6 days a week for 12 years. The first UK wood stove manufacturer to use it was Clearview and some of their 12 year old units are also on original linings including coal burning units that burn hot. Im naturally cautious of materials because I have been in domestic appliance design since 1986 with companies such as Wonderfire, Vermont Castings, Focal Point and as an independent design consultant since 1997 and have seen so many so called miracle materials that dont withstand the first firing let alone customer abuse. The Skamol agency was something I took on 5 years ago because I believed in the product and I knew it worked and was a great product. Dont confuse my enthusiasm for marketing spiel, I dont need to be here on a Sunday, I do it because I think the products great. I will PM you the e mail of Doug Hills the agent in USA who will be able to put you in contact with local stockists.


regards
Duncan Spokes
UK agent Skamol
 
Thanks for the thoughtful reply, Duncan. I do appreciate your enthusiasm, and the need to be conservative in your estimates of service life, especially in such a tough environment as a stove firebox. As you suggest, a little care goes a long way, no matter what the material. I'm on the third year of using the X33, which has Skamolex side panels and baffle (though I've replaced the baffle with another material), and I see no signs of wear. I'd just feel more comfortable if the material was more available to us end users - to fabricate replacements, for experimentation, whatever.

There's no question that the material has unleashed a wave of creativity for stove designers. And I'm all for that!
 
Even if the pumice bricks might be better than the Skamol, the Skamol looks nicer because you can cut it any size you want. It is not true no one sells them, my local hearth shop sells the panels for $99.00 per panel. It is true they can not be shipped UPS, they are too fragile.

So on another note, what do you think about using them for baffles in the top of the non cat 7100? I bet they hold up better than the factory ones.
Thanks Duncan for your comments. I appreciate your input, keep posting on the forum.

Ernie
 
I meant "noone" figuratively. Hechlers in Troy, MO sells them but won't ship them. Same with a couple other dealers.

Sure, the ceramic fiberboard baffle can be replaced with Skamolex. Yes, it is more durable. But I wouldn't do it to mine. It's thicker, much heavier, and less insulative than the fiberboard. I don't stuff my stove to the gills so my baffle board is in good shape.
 
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