Hello all. Finally got everything hooked up and running. I was hoping someone had any tips on reloading this unit. A lot of times I'm forced to reload the boiler when it's half way through a burn. I know they recommend reloads when there is only coals left but due to work schedule it's not always possible. When I do this (reload half way through) I get a lot of smoke and explosions. Any help would be appreciated. Also when I start it cold with both doors open the fire licks up out of the upper box.
Reloading an orlan 40 eko 40
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stee6043
Minister of Fire
For cold starts you don't need the upper door open. Close it once your done loading wood and leave only the lower door open until the fire is ready.
I've never found a great way to manage mid-burn reloads. Once she's going, she wants to go. Stopping it to reload just pisses it off. I've had some real whoppers of "backdraft" when slowly opening the upper door. If you do it slow enough you can hear it right before the pop is going to come. You only need to do that a handful of times before you start planning your loads a bit different. If you know you're going to have scheduling issues just start using partial loads. Nothing says you can't throw 3-4 splits in to get you to the next spot for a full reload.
I've never found a great way to manage mid-burn reloads. Once she's going, she wants to go. Stopping it to reload just pisses it off. I've had some real whoppers of "backdraft" when slowly opening the upper door. If you do it slow enough you can hear it right before the pop is going to come. You only need to do that a handful of times before you start planning your loads a bit different. If you know you're going to have scheduling issues just start using partial loads. Nothing says you can't throw 3-4 splits in to get you to the next spot for a full reload.
BoiledOver
Minister of Fire
The best results reloading the Eko 25 midway in a burn will follow. First, disclaimer. Pretty close to impossible not to have some amount of smoke escape into the boiler room. But, it can be minimized.
Will state my best procedure and inform that I do have a flue damper.
1- Stage firewood close to boiler opening
2- Open flue damper 100%
3- Open bypass 100%
4- Turn blower up to 100%
5- Leaving the lower door closed, crack upper door 1/2 of 1%
6- Slowly (depending on the amount of smoke that has been evacuated by the blower with the blower still on 100%) open upper door and expect a small amount of smoke and maybe a mini explosion, trial and error will soon show your best results
7- With the firebox door wide open turn the blower off, a new exhaust gas pathway should now be active out the bypass
8- Load firewood, close upper door and latch
9- Resume burn with blower speed and damper setting as required
With the top of the bypass opening one full inch lower than the top of the firebox door opening (which is also the ceiling of the firebox) much of the hot air will naturally take the high road into the boiler room. Running the blower full speed with the bypass open for several seconds will create a new flue gas path while shoving the existing smoke in the firebox up the flue. Once the strong pull of the exiting gasses is established, the smoke will now run out the bypass and up the flue. This has been my experience.
During this procedure, very high flue temps can be reached in a matter of seconds (as much as 1,000F). They will just as quickly come down to the 400F range.
With all of that said, any time a door is opened during an active burn there will be some gases or fly ash allowed into the boiler room.
Will state my best procedure and inform that I do have a flue damper.
1- Stage firewood close to boiler opening
2- Open flue damper 100%
3- Open bypass 100%
4- Turn blower up to 100%
5- Leaving the lower door closed, crack upper door 1/2 of 1%
6- Slowly (depending on the amount of smoke that has been evacuated by the blower with the blower still on 100%) open upper door and expect a small amount of smoke and maybe a mini explosion, trial and error will soon show your best results
7- With the firebox door wide open turn the blower off, a new exhaust gas pathway should now be active out the bypass
8- Load firewood, close upper door and latch
9- Resume burn with blower speed and damper setting as required
With the top of the bypass opening one full inch lower than the top of the firebox door opening (which is also the ceiling of the firebox) much of the hot air will naturally take the high road into the boiler room. Running the blower full speed with the bypass open for several seconds will create a new flue gas path while shoving the existing smoke in the firebox up the flue. Once the strong pull of the exiting gasses is established, the smoke will now run out the bypass and up the flue. This has been my experience.
During this procedure, very high flue temps can be reached in a matter of seconds (as much as 1,000F). They will just as quickly come down to the 400F range.
With all of that said, any time a door is opened during an active burn there will be some gases or fly ash allowed into the boiler room.
NateB
Feeling the Heat
What if you open the upper exhaust door, with the fan on let it get burning in the upper chamber, then open the loading door, and load. You will still get some smoke, but not to much. I am only on my 5th firing, so I am by no means skilled at this yet.
NateB
Feeling the Heat
maple1
Minister of Fire
It should be possible to get your reloads timed with coals.
If you will be needing to re-load when it's half way through a first load, then only load a half load to start with. Put the full load in the second time. Or the like, adjusted to suit.
If you will be needing to re-load when it's half way through a first load, then only load a half load to start with. Put the full load in the second time. Or the like, adjusted to suit.
stee6043
Minister of Fire
BOLD. I like it. Cracking the upper door open with the fan on 100% takes some guts. I don't know if I could do it. I've had at least one occasion where actual flames came out around the upper door opening during an attempt to open/view. Scared the living chit out of me. The transition from upside-down fire to right-side-up fire is never something I've been able to time/predict. And the transition can be quite violent.
BoiledOver
Minister of Fire
Have not had such an occasion, yet anyway, knock on wood. Actually I have better results turning the blower to max than not. Getting the smoldering gases evacuated is the goal. I suppose I neglected to add; during the firebox door opening, I keep a strong grip on the handle and my weight leveraged to prevent being overpowered by any potential gas explosions.
I don't have a flue damper there is an 8" t off the boiler that goes to (2)2 45s that are almost twisted straight to make a slight dog leg that goes to 12" of 8" then to 8" ID triple wall that goes through the roof 5' long. Do I need a damper? The system is out in a shed I don't mind a little smoke. I just don't like the brown smoke that blows up in your face
that stuff gets the heart going better than Viagra.
that stuff gets the heart going better than Viagra.As far as planning a reload I never know when I will get called to a work emergency it could last 2 hours or 16 hours. I did mess around a bit last night and it seems that if I go from gas mode to full bypass and wait a minute the upper box will light up real good and I can top it off without blowing up. Only thing I get the flames coming out I plan on making a heat shield to protect the processor maybe a little concrete board or a piece of stainless I have laying around. Thanks for the reply everyone.
BoiledOver
Minister of Fire
Glad to hear you have a success in reloading. Yeah the controller is sitting right up there where it can get rather warm. Some folks have had issues with the controller being too warm and failures have occurred. There are a few ways to deal with that, one being to cut vents in the pyramid shapes controller box. I did away with that box all together and have a home made box sitting on top of a piece of rigid polyisocyanurate. Zero heat from the boiler gets to the controller now. The wiring to and from the controller has plenty of length for an easy modification.
Stay warm.
Stay warm.
Thanks boiled. I have the newer model where the control is incorporated into the top of the unit. It sits back about 3-4" and it's flat on top. I think I can lay a piece of concrete board up there so it protrudes a few inches past the door opening and weigh it down with a brick while I'm fueling. it won't keep all the heat away but it should keep the flames off of it.
What are you guys using for insulation around your boiler/furnace? I was going to pack rock wool around the triple wall stove pipe and above the boiler then put up a piece of fire rock. Right now it's just the steel roof and the joists. I know I'm loosing quite a bit of heat. I'm at the bare minimum 36.5" above the boiler.
BoiledOver
Minister of Fire
Concerning a flue damper: I am no expert and do not know what would be code or not. I have always had flue dampers on any wood burning device, to me it is a required tool for controlling the burn rate and capturing btus.
The Eko and insulated storage tanks are inside an unattched insulated shop. The radiant heat from the boiler is keeping the shop warm through the winter. All piping in the shop and underground to the house, has been insulated. The flue is 6" single wall to the ceiling support box and then insulated clear up to the cap.
Maybe you could get some insulation going or rebuild a larger shell as your shed/boiler building.
The Eko and insulated storage tanks are inside an unattched insulated shop. The radiant heat from the boiler is keeping the shop warm through the winter. All piping in the shop and underground to the house, has been insulated. The flue is 6" single wall to the ceiling support box and then insulated clear up to the cap.
Maybe you could get some insulation going or rebuild a larger shell as your shed/boiler building.
Fred61
Minister of Fire
My experience with my EKO 25 is totally different from what I am reading here. I light a new fire every day. I rake the charcoal over the nozzle or if I didn't shut down the boiler soon enough on the previous day's fire, I have a reserve bucket beside the boiler that I can use. I sift all my ashes from the lower box and retrieve the charcoal.
I then place 5 or 6 small splits in good contact with the charcoal, close the upper door and light the charcoal with a propane torch (no more than 15 or 20 seconds). When I see a bright glow I remove the torch, close the door, start the combustion fan and immediately close the bypass damper. Sometimes I peek in the lower chamber to see if I have gassing. I'll normally see an anemic flame which is good enough. I then re-visit the boiler in about an hour, check the temperature rise, open the bypass damper, open the upper door, stir the fire a little in order to knock down any wood that might have "bridged" since the charcoal usually burns out from under the cold splits and add enough wood (estimate) to bring storage up to 170 or so.
Once the fire is going "full bore" ie: large mass of glowing and flaming fuel I can open the bypass, open the door and not get one whisper of smoke or flames out the door. Different story when the fire is cold and has a large amount of cold, un-charred wood. In fact when I do open the door after opening the bypass on a hot fire, the blaze doesn't even turn upwards. I can hear the roar and see the flame being sucked down the nozzle with the door open.
I suspect it could be the draft but I've never checked it since I've been happy with the burn, efficiency and flue temperature. Reading several thousand posts here over the years, I have come to the conclusion that some here think that the combustion fan is there to blow the fire through the boiler and up the chimney. That is not the case. Check your draught. View the draft and combustion fan separately.
I then place 5 or 6 small splits in good contact with the charcoal, close the upper door and light the charcoal with a propane torch (no more than 15 or 20 seconds). When I see a bright glow I remove the torch, close the door, start the combustion fan and immediately close the bypass damper. Sometimes I peek in the lower chamber to see if I have gassing. I'll normally see an anemic flame which is good enough. I then re-visit the boiler in about an hour, check the temperature rise, open the bypass damper, open the upper door, stir the fire a little in order to knock down any wood that might have "bridged" since the charcoal usually burns out from under the cold splits and add enough wood (estimate) to bring storage up to 170 or so.
Once the fire is going "full bore" ie: large mass of glowing and flaming fuel I can open the bypass, open the door and not get one whisper of smoke or flames out the door. Different story when the fire is cold and has a large amount of cold, un-charred wood. In fact when I do open the door after opening the bypass on a hot fire, the blaze doesn't even turn upwards. I can hear the roar and see the flame being sucked down the nozzle with the door open.
I suspect it could be the draft but I've never checked it since I've been happy with the burn, efficiency and flue temperature. Reading several thousand posts here over the years, I have come to the conclusion that some here think that the combustion fan is there to blow the fire through the boiler and up the chimney. That is not the case. Check your draught. View the draft and combustion fan separately.
BoiledOver
Minister of Fire
Hey @Fred61 What is your total flue length? Do you use a flue damper?
When cruising the blower is set to 70 on the RK controller and 50% on the inline rheostat (roughly 35% of the blowers top speed), in addition the flue damper is nearly horizontal (almost closed). With the blower any faster or the flue wide open, stack temps go up and I feel there is too much heat being shoved out the chimney.
I am wondering if your draft is strong enough to keep the check flapper open with the blower off. Twelve feet of flue will not.
When cruising the blower is set to 70 on the RK controller and 50% on the inline rheostat (roughly 35% of the blowers top speed), in addition the flue damper is nearly horizontal (almost closed). With the blower any faster or the flue wide open, stack temps go up and I feel there is too much heat being shoved out the chimney.
I am wondering if your draft is strong enough to keep the check flapper open with the blower off. Twelve feet of flue will not.
Fred61
Minister of Fire
I have an 8 inch single wall pipe exiting the boiler and it connects to a 6 inch class A stainless chimney. You lost me with the damper question. Do you mean a barometric damper? I don't have a barometric damper and would not use any other type of manual damper in the flue. As I said above I have never checked my draft and would not just install one without knowing the numbers.
I have the Eccoster2 controller and have the fan set at about 45%. When I was first setting it up I lowered the fan speed and settled on the present setting with a more lazy fire bit still leaned out to a blue, pink, white flame.
I'm assuming that your question on the "check flapper" has something to do with the damper and not the bypass flap.
BoiledOver
Minister of Fire
My apology to @Thecornguy for getting off topic a smidge.
Check flapper being where the blower attaches to front panel. Don't know an official term for it but it is a gravity flapper to keep gases from coming backwards into the blower.
I use a manually adjusted flue damper like on any wood fired appliance, surely you have seen such a thing. Has a coiled wire handle sticking out of the side of the flue and the cast iron disk inside the flue is just undersized to the flue diameter.
Check flapper being where the blower attaches to front panel. Don't know an official term for it but it is a gravity flapper to keep gases from coming backwards into the blower.
I use a manually adjusted flue damper like on any wood fired appliance, surely you have seen such a thing. Has a coiled wire handle sticking out of the side of the flue and the cast iron disk inside the flue is just undersized to the flue diameter.
woodsmaster
Minister of Fire
woodsmaster
Minister of Fire
This is where storage is awesome. keep storage charged enough that you can leave without reloading.
Fred61
Minister of Fire
Ahhh, check flapper! Has been a non issue for the last 7.5 years because it doesn't enter in to my burning procedure. I played with it early on when I was getting familiar with the system. I recall adding some weight (a dime and a nickel) --- 15 cents, but I can't recall why.
I suggest you remove the manual damper and tune the boiler with the adjustments provided. Those dampers were used on the old stoves from way back when they had so many cracks and joints you could see the fire without opening the door.
I suggest you remove the manual damper and tune the boiler with the adjustments provided. Those dampers were used on the old stoves from way back when they had so many cracks and joints you could see the fire without opening the door.
BoiledOver
Minister of Fire
I have 1000 gallons of storage. I'm still not sure how long that will last with our crazy weather. It could be mid twenties for a week then 65 for a couple days. I remember one year running the air conditioning on Christmas and worrying that the pipes would freeze by New Years. I'm at temperature now (set at 188) I just loaded her up with wood and cob corn. I don't know if that was a good idea or not I think I will have a creosote nightmare tonight. We shall see. Oh the joys of learning new things!
I'm getting the hang of it I think. To reload midstream I turn the thermostat all the way up so she goes into full gasification. Wait a little while and hit the bypass. I wait a little more and crack the upper door till I hear a nice roar then kill the fan. Seems to be working pretty good. That is until tomorrow when it decides to throw a curveball and something totally different will happen.
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