Replacing existing insert with wood stove into masonry fireplace? [pics]

[plasticmotif]

First post!

So, I bought this house about two months ago and I'd like to replace our wood stove insert. It is a Dynamic Stoveworks Insert with blowers. The reasons I'm wanting to replace the stove are a) aesthetics, b) burning less wood/efficiency, c) to take advantage of the tax credit, and d) wood smell. I'm pretty sure the odor is coming from worn out gaskets and probably needs sweeping. I've got an inspector coming to inspect and possibly clean our chimney in the meantime. I do not know the age of this wood stove. The last chimney inspection performed during the previous winter says our house a 26' masonry chimney with flue tile. I reached behind the insert and measured our fireplace at 30"x30". I don't now how deep it is, but the hearth is 18".

My question: Is the heat loss to masonry that big of an issue against an insert? I've been looking at a Lopi Stove and as I understand it their freestanding stoves are exactly the same as their inserts.

I'm not asking for which stove to buy.....more of guidance on which route to take to get there!

 

[Handsonautotech]

First post!

So, I bought this house about two months ago and I'd like to replace our wood stove insert. It is a Dynamic Stoveworks Insert with blowers. The reasons I'm wanting to replace the stove are a) aesthetics, b) burning less wood/efficiency, c) to take advantage of the tax credit, and d) wood smell. I'm pretty sure the odor is coming from worn out gaskets and probably needs sweeping. I've got an inspector coming to inspect and possibly clean our chimney in the meantime. I do not know the age of this wood stove. The last chimney inspection performed during the previous winter says our house a 26' masonry chimney with flue tile. I reached behind the insert and measured our fireplace at 30"x30". I don't now how deep it is, but the hearth is 18".

My question: Is the heat loss to masonry that big of an issue against an insert? I've been looking at a Lopi Stove and as I understand it their freestanding stoves are exactly the same as their inserts.

I'm not asking for which stove to buy.....more of guidance on which route to take to get there!

We bought our house in May 2016. It had a very ugly 4 foot by 8 foot masonry fireplace made out of ugly cinder blocks. After much debate we decided to remove it to free up space and gain the benefits of a free standing stove. We could not be happier with our decision. We had a structural engineer confirm that the fireplace did not support the house in anyway above the first floor. Then we rented jack hammers frome home depot. It was a lot of work but the end result is amazing.

If we had not removed the fireplace we were considering the Heartstone Homestead. With the fireplace removed we went with the Hearthstone Heritage. We are very pleased. A full load of mixed hardwoods keep us warm all night long into the morning.

If your fireplace is an outside wall of a fairly large home might I suggest leaving it be for ambience maybe even remove the insert and make it a traditional fireplace again, and add a free standjng stove to a most central location of the house.

 

[mol1jb]

My question: Is the heat loss to masonry that big of an issue against an insert? I've been looking at a Lopi Stove and as I understand it their freestanding stoves are exactly the same as their inserts.

I'm not asking for which stove to buy.....more of guidance on which route to take to get there!

Well you have a good canvas on which to work. The stone work on the fireplace looks nice and 30"x30" is a good sized opening and a should give you a good amount of options on what stove will fit.

I think heat loss through an exterior masonry chimney will be an issue for an insert vs stove if they are both in the fireplace. Stone and mason have never been good insulators. But there are things you can do to limit the heat loss like a block off plate above the unit. Were you looking to have the stove all the way in the fireplace or stick out of the fireplace a bit?

 

[ccmac]

I just put an Alderlea T5 in my fireplace. I really love the look but cannot speak regarding the masonry heat loss as I have yet to fire mine up. My chimney is an interior chimney toward center of the house so my heat will likely radiate back into the room.

 

[plasticmotif]

Well you have a good canvas on which to work. The stone work on the fireplace looks nice and 30"x30" is a good sized opening and a should give you a good amount of options on what stove will fit.

I think heat loss through an exterior masonry chimney will be an issue for an insert vs stove if they are both in the fireplace. Stone and mason have never been good insulators. But there are things you can do to limit the heat loss like a block off plate above the unit. Were you looking to have the stove all the way in the fireplace or stick out of the fireplace a bit?

I have 18" of hearth. I was thinking of having the stove sit out on the hearth around 10". I'd have 14" in the fireplace. I'm considering the Lopi Republic 1750. It's got the secondary wall for convection (away from my stone) and fits as it's 26.5" tall with legs. I'd have 3" clearance around the masonry on all sides.

View attachment 185572 I just put an Alderlea T5 in my fireplace. I really love the look but cannot speak regarding the masonry heat loss as I have yet to fire mine up. My chimney is an interior chimney toward center of the house so my heat will likely radiate back into the room.

Looks good! I'm just afraid I will lose heat to masonry if I don't reflect it out.

 

[St. Coemgen]

My question: Is the heat loss to masonry that big of an issue against an insert?

Maybe this will help you decide:

https://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hoinsfs.htm

In short, a modern insert is probably a better option (efficiency wise) than a free standing stove set into the fireplace, while a hearth stove (with a backing that closes off the chimney space and reduces heat loss to the chimney), is just a little bit better than the insert. But a hearth stove will also mean you may have to build out your hearth to accommodate the stove, and you will have a stove sticking out into your living space (i.e. reduces that living space).

 

[twd000]

is a hearth stove the same thing as a freestanding stove, for the purpose of this discussion?

I assumed they all had a design to minimize heat transfer from the rear face of the stove.

I have read many discussions on here with owners of inserts experiencing shorter burn times than users with the equivalent freestanding stove. I assumed the difference was due to heat lost into the masonry chimney from the insert.

 

[begreen]

Many stoves have rear heat shielding to reduce back clearances. If the chimney is exterior one option to further reduce heat loss is to put rigid insulation board on the back and sides, then cover it will a non-combustible paintable surface like sheet metal or durock and paint that black with high-temp black BBQ paint. In either case of an insert or freestanding, a damper area sealing block-off plate will help a lot with keeping more heat in the room.

@plasticmotif welcome. A compromise would be to focus on inserts that extend out onto the hearth a bit. These inserts will radiate more heat into the room, especially during power outages when the blower is off. Some have pretty good natural convection too which also helps.

 

[plasticmotif]

Maybe this will help you decide:

https://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hoinsfs.htm

In short, a modern insert is probably a better option (efficiency wise) than a free standing stove set into the fireplace, while a hearth stove (with a backing that closes off the chimney space and reduces heat loss to the chimney), is just a little bit better than the insert. But a hearth stove will also mean you may have to build out your hearth to accommodate the stove, and you will have a stove sticking out into your living space (i.e. reduces that living space).

If I get a 24" deep stove, I could have ~10" inches stick out onto my 18" hearth and be okay, I think.

Many stoves have rear heat shielding to reduce back clearances. If the chimney is exterior one option to further reduce heat loss is to put rigid insulation board on the back and sides, then cover it will a non-combustible paintable surface like sheet metal or durock and paint that black with high-temp black BBQ paint. In either case of an insert or freestanding, a damper area sealing block-off plate will help a lot with keeping more heat in the room.

@plasticmotif welcome. A compromise would be to focus on inserts that extend out onto the hearth a bit. These inserts will radiate more heat into the room, especially during power outages when the blower is off. Some have pretty good natural convection too which also helps.

I assume, using your first suggestion, I could use Durock and use chimney cement to motar the boards in place then paint it?

I'm not necessarily against the insert idea, I just like the looks of the freestanding stoves. I also, to be specific, like the Lopi system with the secondary box for convection to the front of the stove.

 

[begreen]

I would use tapcons to hold the Durock in place. One in each corner should suffice. There are several stoves with convection tops. Which Lopi?

 

[plasticmotif]

I would use tapcons to hold the Durock in place. One in each corner should suffice. There are several stoves with convection tops. Which Lopi?

The bigger Republic 1750 would fit and have 3 inches above and on each side. + 12 inches behind if I scooted it forward on my hearth some.

 

[begreen]

That can work. Watch the location of the flue collar in relation to the front lintel brick and alignment with the liner coming down the chimney. How large an area will the stove be heating?

 

[mellow]

For sure insulate that fireplace whichever way you go. Have you looked at the rear venting stoves yet?

 

[plasticmotif]

That can work. Watch the location of the flue collar in relation to the front lintel brick and alignment with the liner coming down the chimney. How large an area will the stove be heating?

Main floor is 1100, second floor is 700. We have a basement fireplace as well. The basement is finished but below grade. The main floor has a 520ish addition that is too far away. It will be shut off during Winter.

 

[blacktail]

I don't know if the Republic freestander would gain you much by sitting out of the fireplace. The Republic 1750 insert sticks out pretty good on its own (10" according to Lopi). Of course, if you like the look of a freestanding stove, then that's what you like.

 

[plasticmotif]

Went to the local dealer today. He said installing a top venting freestanding stove isn't possible in a fireplace. Could you install a 45 at the top of the stove to attach your liner?

 

[begreen]

Nonsense, moderator BrotherBart's stove is top venting in the fireplace. All one needs is a sufficiently tall fireplace or a sufficiently short stove.

 

[BrotherBart]

Yup. 15 degree elbow to the liner and it is a done deal.

 

[BrotherBart]

Any free standing stove in a fireplace is no different than an insert when you are using a liner. None of them line up perfectly with the liner. Like BG said, it just has to be short enough to fit the hole.

 

[plasticmotif]

Well, to be more precise, he said it wouldn't work in my situation. I didn't want to be argumentative 'cause I'd probably sound like an a-hole.

I don't see any issue with it. I'll update this Monday. I've got a sweep coming and I'm going to see if he'll help me remove the current insert to assess what I've got.

 

[begreen]

Yes, it can be awkward. It doesn't hurt to get a second and third opinion. FWIW we wanted to buy local so I asked about getting the PE T6 for our house from the local dealer. He asked a few questions about our house size and age and then flat out refused to sell it to us. He went on and on how we would be heated out of the house and dissatisfied and how he wasn't going to tarnish his reputation. I walked away. We ended up getting the T6 from Tom Oyen (thechimneysweep here) who objectively weighed the pros and cons of the larger T6 over the T5. Never once did he suggest it would overheat the place unless we wanted it to. We got the big beast and have been very happy we did. The stove has never overheated the house in 8 seasons of operation here.