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Sad articles from Greece

Post in 'The Inglenook' started by Stella, Jan 18, 2013.

  1. Stella

    Stella Member

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  2. Jack Straw

    Jack Straw Minister of Fire

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    This will be in the Asn Can in 5 4 3 2 1.
  3. albert1029

    albert1029 Feeling the Heat

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    how terrible...this is a tragic situation...I was stationed on Cyprus and visited Athens a couple of times, worked with a lot of Greek sailors on merchant ships and I really like these wonderful people...I feel for them...
    Shane N likes this.
  4. Stella

    Stella Member

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    Sorry don't know what this means, please explain?
  5. Jack Straw

    Jack Straw Minister of Fire

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    You did nothing wrong and it's a great article, I think this thread will get political very quickly and end up in the Ash Can where we talk politics.
  6. Stella

    Stella Member

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    Oh I see, I did not mean to be in any way contentious it's just that some people have absolutely no choice in the matter of what and when to burn and I sympathise with their plight. Many people here have had their electricity cut off because they cannot pay and cannot afford to buy oil for heating because the price has increased by 50% due to additional taxes. Oil suppliers are going out of business because of the high cost of their product so as a tax enhancer it was a bit like shooting yourself in the foot.
    Jack Straw likes this.
  7. jharkin

    jharkin Minister of Fire

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    It is sad. It unfortunately also illustrates that as much as we love it, wood heat can't work for entire populations.
    mfglickman likes this.
  8. Stella

    Stella Member

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    Did when we lived in caves!
  9. jharkin

    jharkin Minister of Fire

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    At 1 /100000 the size of modern populations.
  10. swagler85

    swagler85 Minister of Fire

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    If the population had high efficient stoves and burned proper wood it could be done. But as many other discussions have shown. Most people will never learn.
    albert1029 likes this.
  11. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    No fuel will work for entire populations, especially in urban locations. Even with clean burning stoves you can only have a portion of a city's population burning wood before the effects start being felt. This can be exacerbated by the city's geography and climate.

    FWIW, the life span of those cave dwellers was about 3 decades if they were lucky. A lot of short life spans are because of constant breathing of smoke used for cooking and heating in the third world. I like the Scandinavian approach where they have elevated pellet burning to a whole house system with pellets delivered in bulk, just like oil is delivered. In forest rich countries this make more sense.
    ScotO and Billybonfire like this.
  12. firefighterjake

    firefighterjake Minister of Fire

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    A few companies here in Maine are embracing that type of thinking . . . promoting whole home pellet furnaces and boilers and then providing bulk delivery into large hoppers.
    ScotO likes this.
  13. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Yes, I remember when they started up a few years back. How is that working out?
  14. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    Nor do I want the entire population to heat with wood. If they did most of us would have to find yet another alternative to heating as wood pricing would skyrocket and scrounging would be nearly impossible.
    ScotO likes this.
  15. granpajohn

    granpajohn Minister of Fire

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    I do not generally read Greek language, but this article is worth looking at for the photos:
    http://www.alphafm.gr/archives/61184

    It basically shows the Greek/Albanian wood smugglers using their mules for transport. Ingenious, but I believe these were confiscated by the gov't.

    I had a friend return from visiting family in Greece 2 weeks ago. He said the city folks are in bad shape; farmers somewhat better. (Our friends were farmers and had always burned wood for cooking and heating.)
    albert1029 likes this.
  16. Stella

    Stella Member

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    Yes, so it seems here where most of us have access to some wood and a piece of land with trees. This article may be of interest to you http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/20...burn-wood-and-chat-about-the-heating-problem/
  17. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    when times are hard people tend to revert to wood burning (or "anything burning") i have sympathy for those folks over in Greece. (could get really political right now but its too obvious to even start) shame that people have to resort to obviously inefficient wood burning practices to stay warm.

    IMHO hard times tend to cause people to "revert to type" notice the "wood scalpers" mentioned. supply and demand is a harsh system sometimes, particularly in hard times. the real question though is , will the Greeks respond with more than austerity , with an actual national ethos that they should have better, should work to have better, accept that they are in a mess as a country, but have a deep culture steeped in democracy and attack the issues which face them as a people with this heritage, or will they succumb to the immediate which saps the will to make a better place. Greece needs badly to find their roots, to re-realize "citizen government" to rekindle democracy.
  18. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Stella, this is a bit off topic, but do you live in the Mani region? I'm reading a book about that area.
  19. Stella

    Stella Member

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    Hello Begreen, certainly do live most of the time in the Outer Mani, Peloponnese, where our holiday home is rapidly becoming my permanent home.
  20. nate379

    nate379 Guest

    What is a tone in reference to buying wood? How us buying in cubic meters a rip off, wouldn't that be like buying a cord?
    About 3.5 cubic meters to a cord.
  21. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    I'm reading Patrick Leigh Fermor's "Mani - Travels in the Southern Peloponnese". By his description, in 1958 the deep inner Mani was like a land that time forgot. He lived near Kardamyli. I love the olivea from this area and the oil too. Hope I get a chance to visit the area some time.
  22. Stella

    Stella Member

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    Hello begreen Patrick died at the age of 96 in the last couple of years and his secluded house in Kalamitsi between Kardamili and Stoupa which is where my house is, has been left to the nation for as a writers' retreat. The views all around from the rocky little beach in front of the house are spectacular looking up to the foothills of the Taygetos mountains which at the moment are tipped with snow. The film Ill met by Moonlight is based on his wartime experiences on the island of Crete, by the way.
  23. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Yes, he was quite a remarkable man. He lived a very full and amazing life. I'm working my way through many of his books. That sounds like a beautiful area.
  24. Stella

    Stella Member

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    i have no idea what a cord is or what a ton of wood looks like but I was told by a Greek lady yesterday that a ton of wood would cost 200€. Very much more than the cost last year. Yet again we have another article on the cost of heating and the problems encountered with poorly ventilated houses and presumably wet wood http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite6_1_24/01/2013_480138
  25. granpajohn

    granpajohn Minister of Fire

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    Seems like selling wood by the ton would be an incentive to sell it as wet as possible. Every day it seasons reduces the seller's income. Might be part of their smoke problem.
    I will roughly estimate that a ton is about a half cord, but would vary greatly by species.

    I have not kept up with this in recent years, but do Greeks still smoke Marlboros like mad? (Stella, that's tobacco smoking). If so, the Medical Association quotes in that news article seem a bit empty.

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