Safety of an insert in a Heatilator E36 ZC Fireplace

[pastera]

I was looking to put an insert (Quadrafire 2700i) in my Heatilator E36 fireplace. Fireplace is 16 years old with an unknown past (I have owned the house for a year).

Checked out a local dealer (not quadrafire) to see if they had anything else that would fit. The dealer stated that installing into a ZC fireplace would be unsafe and would not recommend it. The recommended solution was a tear out of fireplace and chimney to the tune of $5500 not including any framing and finishing (mantel, hearth, etc).

Checked with Quadrafire and Heatilator and both said no issue as long as the fireplace is UL 127 listed and an insulated liner is used.

Had the chimney cleaned and the sweep told me the chimney is in good condition and there should be no problem installing a liner. He also said the fireplace shouldn't be burned too hot until the rear refractory panel is replaced (cracked). The crack is where the panel has been hit by splits being put into the fireplace is closed and extends about 75% horizontally.

Chimney is ~34' of sl300 air cooled pipe with an 8" offset right above the fireplace.

So, two questions:

1 - Would it be unsafe to install an insert with a full length insulated liner?

2 - If I do install an insert, should the refractory panels be replaced first?


Thanks
Aaron

 

[velvetfoot]

I have a Quadrafire 2700i in our Heatilator A36R which is about 5 years old now or so.
We installed it almost 3 years ago for about $2700 at the time.
I believe it is the same chimney system as yours.

Here are before and after pics:

 

[polaris]

Another is a free standing stove. A good # including most if not all Jotul's are rated for connection to a ZC.(using a liner and proper clearances)

 

[pastera]

Velvetfoot - Thanks for the PICs, stove looks great - The A36R is taller than the E36 but the E36 is tall enough if the smoke shelf (think that's what it is called) is removed.

SWMBO pulled rank and said no hearth stove so free standing is out.

My thoughts are that the dealer doesn't have anything that would fit and was trying to do the business he could. I am not complaining, I would probably be much happier with a full ripout but the cost would probably run around 8k in the end. Once it gets into that range, a boiler unit starts looking better.

Aaron

 

[jtp10181]

I am pretty sure Heatilator strongly suggests NOT putting a wood insert into a "E" box ZC unit. The units are made out of such thin material there is a concern the floor could collapse under the weight of the insert. You can't cut the firebox floor out like you can with a gas insert so the bottom refractory an bottom metal floor of the firebox has to support all the weight of the insert.

 

[pastera]

I called heatilator and asked Tech support the specific question of a 2700i in the E36. After about 5 minutes on hold, I was told that it would be fine but would need an insulated 6" liner installed. One would hope that the tech would not have given a swag after putting me on hold so long to talk to the nest level of expertise.

But if there is a question about the safety of the floor strength, then I can understand why the dealer would not be thrilled to install.


The floor on the e36 is about 400 square inches so with the 285 pound insert - that's only 1.5 PSI. That's assuming an even loading and a solid support structure under the refractory floor (not likely). A 1/4" steel sheet would insure even loading but I would need to remove the refractory panels to see how the floor is mounted. A quick calculation would give me the safety factor of the support at that load.

Thanks
Aaron

 

[jtp10181]

I have a chart I can access at work showing which Quad inserts can go in which HTL wood units. If tech support said its OK, they should be going off the same chart. I will check next week if I think of it.

 

[pastera]

JTP

Thanks - That would be great.

Having been the victim of lackluster tech support, I always try to get second source of information.

Aaron

 

[jtp10181]

The chart I found is quite old because it actually lists the 2100i which I don't even know when they quit making that and went to the 2700i... Anyway, it shows for the E36 the only inerts you can use are the gas models, same with all the "E" boxes. I remember talking to either Quad or Heatilator at some time about this and that's where I got the info I said above.

All that being said, if you can fit a 2700i without modifying the fireplace it would probably be fine. I'm sure we have installed wood inserts into weaker contracted prefab units.

Also about the refractories. If the crack is fairly small I would not worry about. If you can stick a quarter in the crack or there are chunks falling off then it should be replaced to use the prefab unit. If the refractory is mostly there I would not worry too much about replacing it just to install an insert. A lot of sweeps around here tell people to replace their refractories when they only have small cracks. I tell the people to save their money till it gets a lot worse.

 

[pastera]

JTP

Thanks for the info!

The cracks in the rear refractory are closed with some dings/digs where the previous owner hit it with splits or the poker. The refractory on the floor has two hairline cracks that are only visible if you are searching for them (they look like curing cracks)

By measurement the 2700i will fit, even with a 1/4" plate in the floor. So I need to drop some weight into the fireplace and measure the deflection to see if I'm comfortable with the 285lb insert.

Thanks
Aaron