Seam where insert and stove pipe elbow meet

[billjustbill]

I need some advice about how to seal a seam/joint and what high temp product to use.

I have a Freedom Bay with a 6" single wall inside the fireplace chimney. As the pipe comes down and out of the damper, the installer used a 6" elbow to transition between a 3' piece of flex pipe to an elbow and then directly into the top hole of the Freedom bay.

I've clean the pipe and all appears good. After getting the 6" SS pipe clean with my rods and wire brush, inside I take the front metal trim panel off and after 2 seasons of burning, I also check the joint at the top of the insert and it doesn't look good. The space is very narrow (3") between the insert and the damper opening. The White sealant squirted around the seam has turned black. loosened, and cracked away. I shined my flashlight up through the open damper from inside the fire box. Where the joint goes into the top of the insert, most of the joint appears tight, but on place you can see light between the elbow and the insert hole. A lot of light comes through the a gap that is a strip about 1-1/4" along and most of that space is wide enough to put a toothpick between.

The seller of the insert said this morning that the gap in that joint "Isn't a problem. Because it is pulling a draft through the 6" pipe liner, it shouldn't leak unless your pipe is Stopped-Up..."

Then, I asked that since the trim panels are not sealed, couldn't carbon-monoxide leak into the room? The person went to talk to the installer and came back with: "It's not a problem, it won't leak smoke because of the flue draw, and you'll just have to reseal that place every few years."

Would you give me some experienced advice about the installer/company's installation, in view it's out of their warranty, and the accuracy of their information? I spent $17.00 on a tube of 600-degree red silcone sealer to use in the gap, will that work?

Thanks for the help,
Bill

 

[PLAYS WITH FIRE]

The pros will definitely chime in but the only air sucked through the system should be controlled air provided by the stove. When the burner is burning, it will suck air through leaky joints cooling it and creating creosote and affecting the stoves performance. Where my collar meets the stove and the flex pipe I used furnace cement and used my finger to work it in. I did a smoke test on start up with and incense stick and watched it pulll air there. I sealed and it's good now. If this is your problem do the same. If you are not sure post some pix and these folks will be happy to help.

 

[KaptJaq]

As long as you have a good draft it will not let smoke or CO into the house so it should not be dangerous. That said, it does reduce the draft through your insert. Any air being sucked into the pipe is not going through your insert. If it was my install I would see if the pipe is properly seated in the insert collar. Is it screwed to the insert's collar? If it is seated all the way into the collar and screwed on I would seal the joint with furnace cement of some type. That point is one of the hottest in the stove. 600° silicon will just rapidly deteriorate there.

KaptJaq

 

[PLAYS WITH FIRE]

I bought a CO monitor and place it about 5' from my insert. I think it cost like 40bux from Home Depot....

 

[billjustbill]

As long as you have a good draft it will not let smoke or CO into the house so it should not be dangerous. That said, it does reduce the draft through your insert. Any air being sucked into the pipe is not going through your insert. If it was my install I would see if the pipe is properly seated in the insert collar. Is it screwed to the insert's collar? If it is seated all the way into the collar and screwed on I would seal the joint with furnace cement of some type. That point is one of the hottest in the stove. 600° silicon will just rapidly deteriorate there.

KaptJaq

Thanks to all who answered.

KaptJaq, the Freedom Bay unit I have does not have a collar. There's just a round 6" hole cut into the top of the insert and the slightly tapered end of the stainless steel elbow is supposed to poke down into it. Do you think there should have been a separate collar that attached to the opening or that the ring was left off at the factory?

I have an additional question or two, if I might ask for more insight and help. Is it normal for the installer to use an impact drill and hammer to enlarge the rectangular damper opening so the flexible length of 6" stainless pipe and elbow can get from straight run inside the chimney to the 6" hole in the top of the insert? What was knocked out amounted to several bricks of debris by the time they managed to get it through the opening. The brick and rock chimney is in the middle of the house and exits in the center of the roof's ridge line about 4' above it.

The installer/seller said that using a single 6" liner, here in North-Central Texas was fine as it would heat the dead air in the original chimney flue, and with that, it would keep the liner heated- up so buildup wasn't a problem and a double liner isn't necessary....

It has appeared that there have been many "Little" things either left undone or half-done during this install. It makes me worry a bit about the workmanship and safety, you know?

 

[KaptJaq]

The gap in the first picture is not a problem. I would just fill it with furnace cement to prevent air from leaking into the flue above the stove. It is hard to see in the second picture but it looks like the 30 degree bend is not seated square in the stove. It looks like a 45 degree would have seated better. Hopefully the crimped section of the pipe is deep enough into the stove to stay put. I am not sure how or if that bend is supposed to be attached to your insert, maybe somebody with a similar insert can offer suggestions.

 

[billjustbill]

The gap in the first picture is not a problem. I would just fill it with furnace cement to prevent air from leaking into the flue above the stove. It is hard to see in the second picture but it looks like the 30 degree bend is not seated square in the stove. It looks like a 45 degree would have seated better. Hopefully the crimped section of the pipe is deep enough into the stove to stay put. I am not sure how or if that bend is supposed to be attached to your insert, maybe somebody with a similar insert can offer suggestions.

I've added a picture to show how it was found during the warranty period. The gap was much worse. I believe the installer came out and used a smaller hammer to flare what elbow material protruded into the insert. The gap, as I said in the first post is much narrower now, oxbut still light that is shined up into the firebox shows through a narrow gap between the insert opening and the elbow.

 

[Woody Stover]

KaptJaq, the Freedom Bay unit I have does not have a collar. There's just a round 6" hole cut into the top of the insert and the slightly tapered end of the stainless steel elbow is supposed to poke down into it. Do you think there should have been a separate collar that attached to the opening or that the ring was left off at the factory?

I just bought a Buck 91. The previous install had a similar setup but no elbow. Flex had an adapter on the bottom, then into the outlet hole, not fastened to the stove in any way. It was sealed with some type of white cement but that had cracked and fallen away. I'm installing the stove with an elbow at the bottom, and was able to buy an optional cast iron flue collar made by Buck (my dealer, who apparently buys Buck parts from another dealer, didn't have the collar on his list, but the helpful folks at Buck told me that it was available, and how it was secured to the stove.) I don't want any movement from expansion when the flue heats up, which would break any seal if the elbow isn't secured to the stove (even the 900* continuous-temp sealant my dealer stocks.) It is possible that they make a collar for the Lopi, but evidently you have to go through a dealer to get parts. You might contact Lopi or a dealer to see if that part is available.
At any rate, draft should draw air into the gap and flue gas shouldn't escape. If your chimney has some height and your draft is good, it shouldn't be a problem. I'd think you'd be OK until the end of the season if you want to figure out a fix and pull the insert then...