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Seton w 130 problems

Post in 'The Boiler Room - Wood Boilers and Furnaces' started by maddscot, Nov 19, 2010.

  1. sparke

    sparke Minister of Fire

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    Draft is a critical factor for these type units to work correctly. Borrow a manometer from the dealer where you bought your Seton. Is he local? If not check with your local hearth store...

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  2. maddscot

    maddscot New Member

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    Chester Vermont
    Draft is a critical factor for these type units to work correctly. Borrow a manometer from the dealer where you bought your Seton. Is he local? If not check with your local hearth store...[/quote]

    I bought this directly from Fred Seton.. Are monometers expensive?

    The draft door never had any gasket on it. But today I applied (quite sloppily Im sorry to say) the red silicone. I also siliconed all along the top skin and around the hot water outlet on top. Now a stupid question, how long will this take to dry? Bear in mind it is close to freezing at night and upper 30's to lower 40's during the day and my only heat source is "out".

    I asked this before and it may have been answered but how do you check for air leaks? Ive been using a lighter but thats kinda a pain.

    Cheers
    Ian
  3. 2.beans

    2.beans Minister of Fire

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    im sorry your first repair was trying to fix air leaks. adjusting the draft would have been my first. that stuff could take many hours to cure, especially in a cold environment.if you cant get your hands on a manometer buy a 10 dollar meat probe thermometer that goes up over 400 degrees drill a small hole in your exhaust pipe and see where your temps are at. if it pegs the gauge then buy a 10 dollar draft flap install it in the exhaust pipe and remeasure exhaust temps. try to adjust the damper down to 350* with a good hot fire. if you slow the draft down to much you will see where your air leaks are because the smoke will come out of them when the draft door shuts. then fix the air leaks, readjust draft.
  4. Pat53

    Pat53 Minister of Fire

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    UP Mich
    I bought this directly from Fred Seton.. Are monometers expensive?

    The draft door never had any gasket on it. But today I applied (quite sloppily Im sorry to say) the red silicone. I also siliconed all along the top skin and around the hot water outlet on top. Now a stupid question, how long will this take to dry? Bear in mind it is close to freezing at night and upper 30's to lower 40's during the day and my only heat source is "out".

    I asked this before and it may have been answered but how do you check for air leaks? Ive been using a lighter but thats kinda a pain.

    Cheers
    Ian[/quote]

    Wow, I can't believe he sold you a boiler with a draft door that had no gasket material on it ! Talk about skimping on an important part. I would try to get some heat on that gasket material to help it dry quicker. At 40F it could days for that stuff to dry. If you have a small electric heater with a fan on it or some other way to enclose the area and keep it heated so the silicone dries faster, I would do that right away.

    If you have no other heat source be sure to keep any piping from freezing while your boiler is down.
  5. maddscot

    maddscot New Member

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    How do those gaskets attach to the boiler?
  6. 2.beans

    2.beans Minister of Fire

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    new hampshire
    i used the felpro gasket on the draft door only and used high temp automotive sealant to hold it on. the rope style i used on the feed door is a bigger project.
  7. 2.beans

    2.beans Minister of Fire

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    none of seton boilers have gaskets.
  8. ISeeDeadBTUs

    ISeeDeadBTUs Guest

    Don't want to throw off the OP . . .more of a written thought. . . .

    Sounds like Fred Seton doesn't think the doors need gaskets.
    GW came with no gaskets.
    I run with no gaskets and do not overheat.

    Are all you seton guys running a closed system?

    Lets face it, the weather has NOT been conducive to optimal burning in these RMND units. I have observed that, the colder it gets, the better the GW does. Right now I am set at 170, attempting to not overload. Still getting 12 hour 'burns'.

    Jimbo
  9. JMann

    JMann Member

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    Southern PA
    I would not use the silicone on anything unless you are taking the skins off and using the silicone (with wax paper so it does not stick) to seal it from the inside. You can also use silicone as a door gasket or air intake gasket (again with wax paper) if you need to. I've been using it that way for two years now and am very pleased with the results. If you have leaks around the skins or nipple, I would stick to using stove cement as a temporary solution. It cures fast and can be applied while the stove is hot. I had to use it last season for a pesky leak on one of the skins and it worked like a charm until the end of the season. I then scraped it off and fixed the screw that was stripped off (causing the leak). Be sure that if you do use the stove cement - use it sparingly! Otherwise you'll have a hard time getting it off at the end of the season when it's time to clean it. I really don't think the continuous burning has to do with the gasket (or lack of one). Lot of people here do not use them at all. Look at the draft (monometer) and the set aquastat temp. Could your 130 be over sized?
    I agree with ISeeDeadBTU's statement about the furnace running better when it's really cold. That's when I really start to enjoy the system.
  10. trailhound68

    trailhound68 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
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    98
    Loc:
    NW CT
    Draft is so important whith these boilers. Like it's been said, determine your draft and exhaust temps. You can't dial it in otherwise.
    I had too much draft w/ a 6" SS flue 24'. Was able to take off a 4' section and add a cap, like Fred says not to. Works fine.
    I average a 5 gallon pail of ash per week when it's cold. The flat shovel is my only tool. If it's not kept clean, it'll suck. You've got to
    keep the air inlets completely open. No gaskets on mine, zero. I know it leaks. I caulked a panel after removal.
    3rd or 4th season, can't recall. She'll need at least a new top skin next year. Otherwise the boiler is in good shape and heats the hell
    out of my house & Taj Magarage on Ten cord.
    Have you cleaned the heat exchangers? This is key also.
  11. maddscot

    maddscot New Member

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    Maybe you (or someone ) could explain to me what Im looking for with the temps and where to take them. I have not cleaned the heat exchangers. How do you and does it take long?

    I have used the red silicon on my draft door. Its been over 48 hours and it is still wet/soft. Im freezing my ass off. It has until morning and Im lighting the boiler. Wax paper on it or not. I tried to pull off the wax paper but its stuck to the silicon.
  12. Pat53

    Pat53 Minister of Fire

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    UP Mich
    Hey bro, if you haven't cleaned that HX in 3 years, you may want to do so before firing up that boiler. Be forewarned, it is not an enjoyable experience. You will have to take off the back panel and possibly the top as well. If its plugged up it will take several hours to clean it, sorry, no easy way to do it. I know, not exactly what you wanted to hear, but if your HX is like a lot of Seton, GW owners' has been after just ONE season, it is probably pretty plugged up and not working very efficiently at all.

    As far as the silicon, you need to get some heat on it. It will not dry without warming it up to about room temperature for a day or so.

    Pat
  13. maddscot

    maddscot New Member

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    Well its to late. I fired it up last night. Outside temps were down to 17* and I needed heat. Maybe if its not to much work for you (or someone) you write some some step by step directions on how to clean the HX. And by HX Im assumming you mean the big heat exchanger (big pipes) up above the firebox. Im a little dissappointed with Fred. I have spent a decent amount of time on the phone with Fred before and after I bought this boiler and he never went into any preventive maintenance needed. Of course Im just as much to blame since I never asked about any PM that should be done.

    So to all who have commented and helped me on this thread, here is what I have observed.

    Outside temp was 17*, inside last night before firing up the boiler was 46*. This morning my house, approx 3500 square feet, was 65*. The draft door opens at 165* and closes at 185*, altho my aquastat is set a little below 180*. I place a thermastat on my exhaust 13 inches away from boiler. When draft door opens my chimney is between 135* and 150*. When draft door closes the chimney temp is 225* to 250*.



    Remember that this is trying to bring my house up to temp and is cycling on and off fairly quickly.
    Happy Thanksgiving all.

    Ian
  14. maddscot

    maddscot New Member

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    Chester Vermont
    So to all who have commented and helped me on this thread, here is what I have observed.

    Outside temp was 17*, inside last night before firing up the boiler was 46*. This morning my house, approx 3500 square feet, was 65*. The draft door opens at 165* and closes at 185*, altho my aquastat is set a little below 180*. I place a thermastat on my exhaust 13 inches away from boiler. When draft door opens my chimney is between 135* and 150*. When draft door closes the chimney temp is 225* to 250*.



    Remember that this is trying to bring my house up to temp and is cycling on and off fairly quickly.
  15. Trzebs13

    Trzebs13 Member

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    Loc:
    Central WI
    A few points, everyone here is trying to help. They are spot on when they say to seal this thing up especcaly if you are overheating. I guessing that the boiler shuts down and the temps keep creaping up and whamo it's blowing off. Fix; seal it up and then set your aquastat lower. Second lower your pressure. Nothing I've seen or read has told me you need any more than 15 psi in the system. If it is a combination pressure and temp blow off you may be blowing that because of pressure. Espessily if you don't have a large enough expansion tank for your system. I'm still experiminting with my load sizes my self. Are there allot of coals or is it all ash? Try smaller loads this may help with the amount of coals that build up.

    As far as the amount of wood you go threw. My father has a forced air wood stove and goes threw allot less than I do but not twice as much. You get your probleblems corrected and you be happy with your unit.
  16. ISeeDeadBTUs

    ISeeDeadBTUs Guest

    Congratulations Ian! You must be hung like a horse if your wife puts up with a house down to 46 °F

    First bit of advice . . . quit expectin Fred (or any other Service Dept.) to help you. I've never talked to Fred, but it's my observation alot of people have questions, then try to tell him he's wrong about this or that. And most of these people have never given Fred one thin Dime. You know, the thing that makes the worl go around. It's a wonder he answers the phone.

    While I'd recommend reading on this site, I think you should concentrate on people who have set ups as similar to you. Though my hydronic unit is similar to yours, mine is an open system. And with my system, I can tell you that air leaks do not cause overtemps. My top skin has a square hole where the nipple comes through with nothing to seal it When my damper closes, my temps go about 2-3 degrees higher.

    But the guys here that run Setons as a closed system seem to have a different experience. They seem to say you must eliminate all air leaks. I quess if I were in your shoes (but still with my experience) I would want some plumbing/heating gal (or guy if a pretty gal couln't be found) to look over my system and figure out the flow/pressure/temp thing and get it right!

    Question for you . . . If you leave the wood-fired unit 'in the loop' but not running, how does your fossill unit operate? What kind of pressure/temps do you get?

    If this is your first season, you may as well accept the fact its gonna be a b!tch. Just the way it is. Just like you can accept the fact that each year you are gonna get better and better at it till one day you'll be on here spoutin off to newbies about how to run their system the right way :smirk:

    Rock on!
  17. Hardass

    Hardass Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2010
    Messages:
    6
    How old is your boiler(when was it built) Did it come from Montana Stove Works or some where else?I have built Seton boilers for the last year, no boilers are sealead on any of the doors, draft or feed.Though i learned a"lot in the last year i am still quite new to the boiler industry.As you see i am also new to this site and here to try and learn more about what is happening out there.
    I am a"slo looking for all sites on boilers that have good or bad to say about the Seton boiler so Any info would be help full. Thanks.
  18. Deere10

    Deere10 New Member

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    Loc:
    Upstate N.Y
    Trust me Iseedeadbtu is correct. I spouted off alot to him last year. The first year is a royal pain in the a$$. Took mine all apart over the summer to clean HX I was amazed at how much build up there was on the tubes(HX pipes). Yes a huge pain to take apart and clean but may very well be worth it. stay calm and listen to all the posters. good luck
  19. maddscot

    maddscot New Member

    Joined:
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    Loc:
    Chester Vermont
    [quote author="Trzebs13" date="1291715266"]A few points, everyone here is trying to help. They are spot on when they say to seal this thing up especcaly if you are overheating. I guessing that the boiler shuts down and the temps keep creaping up and whamo it's blowing off. Fix; seal it up and then set your aquastat lower. Second lower your pressure. Nothing I've seen or read has told me you need any more than 15 psi in the system. If it is a combination pressure and temp blow off you may be blowing that because of pressure. Espessily if you don't have a large enough expansion tank for your system. I'm still experiminting with my load sizes my self. Are there allot of coals or is it all ash? Try smaller loads this may help with the amount of coals that build up.

    As far as the amount of wood you go threw. My father has a forced air wood stove and goes threw allot less than I do but not twice as much. You get your probleblems corrected and you be happy with your unit.[/quote

    I realize and appreciate that everyone here is trying to help and it was not my intention to offend or upset anyone.

    I have a gasket on my draft door now and it is much better. In fact, and Im embarressed to say, I left my drop light chord on the chimney and it melted blowing the breaker. Without power and a freshly loaded firebox it did over heat but only for a very short time, the draft door closed and the fire was for the most part out by the time I noticed it. The temp was around 150*.Im sure there are still some air leaks somewhere but not sure how to find them. I been using a lighter. I also put on a larger expansion tank. The one that came with the boiler was very small. I put on a Watts EXT-30. I was told by the salesman it was a 30 gallon, but maybe meant a 30 lb. But it is much larger. It is the Temp that is blowing off. With the little expansion tank thhe pressure pop off was always blowing so I just took it off last winter. I did lower my pressure but it wont stay below 20 psi.

    I was also misleading when I was talking about ash. It is probally 256% ash and 75% coals.. They are almost as high as the loading door. I thought that it was due to the fire not burning hot enough due to a lack of draft but a lot of people on here think I may have to much draft with my 30 to 35 foot chimney. I listed my chimney temps in hopes that it would mean something to someone on here.


    Cheers

    Ian
  20. maddscot

    maddscot New Member

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    I bought the boiler from Fred Seton himself in the fall of 2007.
  21. maddscot

    maddscot New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
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    Loc:
    Chester Vermont
    I realize and appreciate that everyone here is trying to help and it was not my intention to offend or upset anyone.

    I have a gasket on my draft door now and it is much better. In fact, and Im embarressed to say, I left my drop light chord on the chimney and it melted blowing the breaker. Without power and a freshly loaded firebox it did over heat but only for a very short time, the draft door closed and the fire was for the most part out by the time I noticed it. The temp was around 150*.Im sure there are still some air leaks somewhere but not sure how to find them. I been using a lighter. I also put on a larger expansion tank. The one that came with the boiler was very small. I put on a Watts EXT-30. I was told by the salesman it was a 30 gallon, but maybe meant a 30 lb. But it is much larger. It is the Temp that is blowing off. With the little expansion tank thhe pressure pop off was always blowing so I just took it off last winter. I did lower my pressure but it wont stay below 20 psi.

    I was also misleading when I was talking about ash. It is probally 256% ash and 75% coals.. They are almost as high as the loading door. I thought that it was due to the fire not burning hot enough due to a lack of draft but a lot of people on here think I may have to much draft with my 30 to 35 foot chimney. I listed my chimney temps in hopes that it would mean something to someone on here.


    Cheers

    Ian
  22. ISeeDeadBTUs

    ISeeDeadBTUs Guest

    Sorry, but I'm passionate about this . . . coals should be at least 1" below the bottom of the air inlets B4 you ad wood.

    Yup, I know you think it can't be done, won't produce heat, yada, yada, yada. Let me just say . . . . bu|| shi+!! LOL. Been there, done that as they say. It ain't gonna run right if you insist on loading inappropriatly. Carefully rake the coals to the back. As long as they are coals {not ash} you can cover the air holes. The coals will continue to burn down. Do not add wood until they are below the air holes. From the sounds, you will have to keep raking ever 30-40 minutes. When the coal bed is level and at least 1" below the bottom of the air inlets, add some 3-4" dry rounds. These should immediatly take off. Then add larger rounds, only halfway up the load door, close the door and walk away.

    No need to worry about offending anyone here. The one guy you offended left a long time ago. The place smells better now ;-)

    report back on your progress
  23. Trzebs13

    Trzebs13 Member

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    Loc:
    Central WI
    I posted ealier on the coal build up here as well. I have since found a few things. If you keep loading the box with wood wheather it needs it or not. You will have coal build up. Jimbo is mostly correct. But every system is a little different. The thing is you cannot let that box fill up with all coals. Like mentioned keep raking them around and one thing I have done (not to say it correct or reccomended) is I put a small fan in back of the unit to force air into the chamber to help expidite the coal elimination process. And the other thing I have noticed is that with warmer days and espessily if you don't have dry wood, this can become an issue. Get that thing cleaned out and start over. Put samller amounts of wood in it than you have been and start from there. I have noticed as the temps are now dropping and the demand for heat is going up this has become less of an issue for me. I haven't found a great way to check for leaks as well, tried using a cigerette and still can't say that I could tell. Do the best you can is about all I can say.

    This is one issue that I think storage would be a huge benifit. And I think that it would help the huge temp swings you can get with out it.
  24. ISeeDeadBTUs

    ISeeDeadBTUs Guest

    Do not put visibly wet wood into the CC. No snow, no ice.
    Always put a layer of quality wood on the coals.
    Do not load until coals are 1" below air inlets. ans water is below 170 °F
    Quit lookin for air leaks.
    If temp swings beyond set points, figure out why.
    Screw storage. Instead, load appropriatly and start 1 fire a year.

    Yup, I know I'm repeating myself. I'm a prick that way. Sooner or later you'll get it :smirk: For the sake of your sanity, I hope it's sooner.
    If I had a dime for every time I tried to extract ashes without killing the fire in this beast while I was strugling up the learning curve, I'd be rich. Now, I'm taking out ~1Gal/wk while not disturbing the fire.

    Rock on!
  25. Deere10

    Deere10 New Member

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    Upstate N.Y
    About the same here a little over a gallon a week.Approx 2 med shovels full and thats it.All ashes and not to many coals I try n leave em alone.Tonite will be in the single digits. This is when these run the best as stated before.I added a small 3 fan set up in the back of the unit also, cant say as it helped w the coals or not. I have learned to load properly and now have preached to my sons to do the same. They are finally understanding too.

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