Should I get a Blazeking King or Princess?

[Swedishchef]

If you actually burn a full 20 cords, spend the value of 10 cords on insulation and you'll end up burning 4

 

[servant119b]

Hi everyone,

I have had a crazy experience installing this woodstove. The "professional" installers I hired for a ton of money did a very bad job, not following code or instructions for the woodstove or chimney parts. They were Blaze King dealers and had been in the business 18 years and I was shocked at all that was done incorrectly. I had to educate myself on how to install everything, and I am pleased with everything except one thing. The woodstove is in the living room on the main floor. It goes through the ceiling, then through a knee-wall attic and up through the roof. I built a box in the living room ceiling/floor of the attic and 2 of the sides give a 2 inch clearance from the packed pipe but I realized the other 2 sides would only give 1 7/8 inch clearance after I built my box. But after I re-plastered the ceiling, screwed in the chimney support, and installed the chimney, I measured and one of those 2 sides is 2 inches and the other side is 1 3/4 inch clearance. So both 1/8 inches landed on the same side of the chimney. So my question is is this dangerous? Do they just say 2 inches to be safe but it's really less? If so, how much less? I'm a little stressed about it because the box is set, the 17 ft of chimney is up, the ceiling is plastered, and roof brace kit is in place, etc, etc. The 1 3/4 inches is the only part of the whole installation that does not have proper clearance. What say you?

 

[Highbeam]

Hi everyone,

I have had a crazy experience installing this woodstove. The "professional" installers I hired for a ton of money did a very bad job, not following code or instructions for the woodstove or chimney parts. They were Blaze King dealers and had been in the business 18 years and I was shocked at all that was done incorrectly. I had to educate myself on how to install everything, and I am pleased with everything except one thing. The woodstove is in the living room on the main floor. It goes through the ceiling, then through a knee-wall attic and up through the roof. I built a box in the living room ceiling/floor of the attic and 2 of the sides give a 2 inch clearance from the packed pipe but I realized the other 2 sides would only give 1 7/8 inch clearance after I built my box. But after I re-plastered the ceiling, screwed in the chimney support, and installed the chimney, I measured and one of those 2 sides is 2 inches and the other side is 1 3/4 inch clearance. So both 1/8 inches landed on the same side of the chimney. So my question is is this dangerous? Do they just say 2 inches to be safe but it's really less? If so, how much less? I'm a little stressed about it because the box is set, the 17 ft of chimney is up, the ceiling is plastered, and roof brace kit is in place, etc, etc. The 1 3/4 inches is the only part of the whole installation that does not have proper clearance. What say you?

It's not right and you know it.

 

[servant119b]

It's not right and you know it.

Obviously it's not right. I'm just wondering how wrong it is. I guess this question is for someone who has knowledge of SuperVent insulated chimney pipe. If they tested this pipe to be safe at 1.5 inch clearance but stretched it 2 inches to be more safe, then it is not worth tearing everything apart. Right now I am off by .25 out of 2. That's 12.5% short. Now maybe they knew that when people built a box and put a hole in the roof that it would be easy to be off by 12.5% so they increase it 25% from 1.6 inches to 2 inches to make up for human error. Or, will my 1/4 inch error increase my chances of a fire from 0% to 10%? It might not be perfect but some common sense is important here too. The point is I measured everything trying to be to code. I discovered error after it cut out joists and screwed everything in. At that point it's quite a hassle to change it. I am also wondering if I put insulation in the box between the chimney and the box if that would help keep heat away from the box. I already have insulation in my insulation shield but that is above the box - not actually in the box. Also, the insulation shield has a telescoping "pipe" that drops down into the box. So first there is the chimney, then an inch of air, then the telescoping insulation shield drop down metal "pipe", then .75 inches of air, and then the wooden wall of the box.

 

[Swedishchef]

I hate going against code...but around here EVERYONE does. I would recommend trying to fix it properly...

But if you don't fix it, maybe stuff from Roxul or some other fire resistant/fireproof insulation in the gap? Just tossing out ideas.

Andrew

 

[BKVP]

Fix it. If you have an insurance claim, you're toast. Manufacturers test to specific clearances, we do not look for "it will be o.k. with a little less" clearances. I assume the venting guys are the exact same.

Hopefully it won't be nearly as bad to repair as that nagging feeling of knowing it's not correct.

 

[Swedishchef]

Chip away at the 1/4 to 1/2 inch wood of the box..or is it more than that? As BKVP said, get it fixed...

Andrew

 

[servant119b]

There are 4 metal straps on the chimney support. The 1.75 inch clearance is right where the metal strap is, so I can't chip away at it.

Guys, I really appreciate your answers. It was not what I wanted to hear. Highbeam said it with the least words. At this point the nagging feeling I'd have from tearing this all apart and doing it again would be greater than the nagging feeling I had yesterday of it being wrong. It's less today. If I take everything apart and re-screw everything I will be disrupting everything, wasting a ton of time, and putting screw holes right next to other screw holes. The 4 metal straps would be shifted a fraction, along with the 4 screws in each of them. The wall on the box would be shifted 1/4 inch. It would disrupt the lath and plaster big time so I'd have to redo the ceiling... all for 12.5% error. And I'd have this nagging feeling that being a perfectionist was just making other things more sloppy. This house needs a ton of work and it's getting colder up here in Michigan. No one has lived in this house for 20 years. In 2-5 years we will put a new foundation in the home, replace the walls and ceiling with drywall when they all crack from leveling the house, and put a new metal roof on the house. At that time I will have to take the chimney down and at that time I can make sure I do it better. This project has already taken me too many weeks because I've never done it before and have just had odd surprises and trying to do it perfect and read and re-read everything takes a lot of time.

Your responses have basically confirmed the nagging feeling I had of the risk I'm facing, and I appreciate knowing what I'm getting myself into. I am going to call the company that makes chimney system and get their opinion and see what they say about insulation in the space like the stuff I bought for inside the insulation shield. I will also keep an eye on the creosote and make sure my fuel is very dry. This first winter I'm using Eco Bricks because I didn't have time to get seasoned wood. The chimney goes straight up from the woodstove. 17 ft of packed pipe and almost 6 ft of stove pipe. One straight shot... so it will be easy to see how much creosote I have and I read that by having a hot fire for a half hour each day will burn off the creosote. I have double wall stove pipe as well. I know my answer sucks but from my perspective it's the best one.

As for home insurance, I was raised to not believe in it, and I've followed on the tradition. People don't stop to think that by having insurance they are taking a gamble as well... about as big of gamble as playing the lottery, and most people lose big time. A few lucky people on insurance have their house burn down and cash in, but the rest get screwed. The Amish just rebuild their neighbor's house if it burns down so they don't have to role the dice in the insurance casino. If this last paragraph alarms you more than the first two, then it slightly decreases the nagging feeling I have about only having a 87.5% clearance on that one side.

Thanks,
Nathan

 

[Highbeam]

It might not be perfect but some common sense is important here too.

I'm sorry I was so short earlier. You know the spec and you fell short. It's like when your girlfriend is pregnant, either she is or she isn't. To you it may be 12.5% but to me it's just wrong. A noncompliant install is illegal. It makes you liable for anything that happens down the road. It's okay if you don't believe in insurance and are willing to rebuild your home out of pocket. What about after you sell your home and then it burns down and kills a family. You are at fault for the illegal, noncompliant installation forever. That is way more risk than the repair bill for the fire.

Common sense. I love that. It's one of those things people say sometimes to try and convince others to go along with whatever they assume to be obvious to them. I would propose that common sense dictates you repair the faulty installation to prevent a lifetime of exposure.

I hired out my first chimney installation. They were 1.5" to a joist in the attic instead of the required 2". I made them redo the ceiling box to get 2". The inspector never looked in the attic and would never have seen their mistake but I did. The trim ring on the ceiling support box was plenty large enough to cover the adjustment. Maybe yours will be too? The small shift required could probable be accomplished without disturbing the rest of the run. There's usually a little flex in the joints.

 

[Highbeam]

This is another reason I like this type of ceiling support box. The box provides the 2" clearance and the insulation shield so you don't have to worry about underframing.

 

[begreen]

I hate going against code...but around here EVERYONE does. I would recommend trying to fix it properly...

But if you don't fix it, maybe stuff from Roxul or some other fire resistant/fireproof insulation in the gap? Just tossing out ideas.

Andrew

I disagree. True, there are exceptions as there are to any rules, but most try to follow code or exceed it. Many folks come here because they have a problem. The normal and easy installs usually do not need assistance.

 

[therdlesstravld]

I'll start by saying I DONT know enough about your specific problem to give advice. On the other hand im a carpenter and I deal with cutting holes in every type of material imaginable and reworking a lot of things to how I want them.

Trust me you can surgerize this situation and really not make much of a mess. I know you like surgerize, it's a great word.

My guess is you are thinking that you'll completely remove the offending framing and move it, in turn damaging the plaster and lathe that is surely attached to it. Am I correct?

If you've got access from above a fein multi-tool or equivalent vibrating trim saw can remove alot more material than you think. If you plunged straight down and essentially shaved a half inch off the wood you'd be golden. Plus this type of tool does not bounce the framing like a sawzall would and shouldnt cause any damage to your plaster.

You can do it just be slick about it.

 

[BKVP]

I'll start by saying I DONT know enough about your specific problem to give advice. On the other hand im a carpenter and I deal with cutting holes in every type of material imaginable and reworking a lot of things to how I want them.

Trust me you can surgerize this situation and really not make much of a mess. I know you like surgerize, it's a great word.

My guess is you are thinking that you'll completely remove the offending framing and move it, in turn damaging the plaster and lathe that is surely attached to it. Am I correct?

If you've got access from above a fein multi-tool or equivalent vibrating trim saw can remove alot more material than you think. If you plunged straight down and essentially shaved a half inch off the wood you'd be golden. Plus this type of tool does not bounce the framing like a sawzall would and shouldnt cause any damage to your plaster.

You can do it just be slick about it.

I love my Fein! Best tool ever for trim, moldings etc! You can get the Craftsman version to save some $$$, especially if you only use it occasionally. Good suggestion.

 

[Highbeam]

Yes, and you only need to carve out the offending little spot that is too close. The round pipe only gets close to the straight framing member at the little tip of the tangent. You would probably need to pop the pipe out of the way to get your tool in there.

I just bought a vibratory tool recently for a siding project that involved trimming cedar lap siding in place. That little tool is quite effective.

 

[therdlesstravld]

Could also go old school and take a sharp chisel and pick away at the wood. Go with the grain and large slivers will come off. You wouldnt need to be that aggressive either especially with a sharp woodworking chisel and wooden mallet. Get the tip of the chisel in and twist it you should be able to work your way down twisting off slivers of wood.

 

[Swedishchef]

beGreen,

You are speaking from your own experience and I am speaking from mine. I live in a province where there are NO municiple building inspectors, NO certified sweeps within 500 miles of my town. Everyone DIYs and several, but not most, don't look at building code. Hell, they don't know what that is. Be it a gfci breaker for a bedroom ($80 or more..most just buy a 20$ 15 amp one) or a hot water temperature regulator for a bathtub/shower or even a tray for the hot water tank.

Yes when speaking about wood burning appliances it is a matter of death and destruction. Nothing less. That being said, everyone should follow code, period. And why not focus on proper burning techniques to prevent chimney fires all together

 

[BKVP]

Swedishchef,

A chimney fire is only one reason to maintain clearances.

Consider this, as a manufacturer we regularly hear and see the issues related to prolonged, continual exposure. Many times sheet rock has been removed to expose completely charred or entirely consumed 2x4 and 2x6 wall studs. Fortunately, not enough oxygen was present to result in combustion.

So while the regular maintenence is critical to avoid the potential for a chimney fire, the above concern should be also taken into consideration.

 

[begreen]

So true, safe burning practices will do squat if clearances are too close.

 

[blueguy]

....Be it a gfci breaker for a bedroom ($80 or more..most just buy a 20$ 15 amp one) ...

Of course they don't use GCFI breakers......the national building code calls for AFCI breakers for all sleeping areas [emoji6]

Just nitpicking [emoji2]

 

[Swedishchef]

I guess you're right. I've never seen it. Too new to burning. But once again, I am just saying, that there are likely lots of people who don't follow code for multiple reasons and who shouldn't!!

And as people who are very knowledgeable in your own fields, you are unlikely to see install issues within your circle of friends/family. An example: I am in law enforcement. Guess what: nobody in my circle of friends / family have criminal records or are in jail at the moment pending trial . So I'd doubt that BKVPs mother's stove is not installed to code. And everyone, not just industry employees, must preach following codes. But from someone who lives in an area that is fairly isolated, and where EPA stoves are a new concept and as is seasoning wood, the majority of the installs I have seen don't follow code whatsoever. Hell, 75% of the people here cut their wood in the FALL and burn 2-3 weeks later.

On another note, the OP will fix the problem and have a clear conscience and code will be followed.

A

 

[Swedishchef]

Of course they don't use GCFI breakers......the national building code calls for AFCI breakers for all sleeping areas [emoji6]

Just nitpicking [emoji2]

LOL. Nobody had died from NOT having AFCI breakers in bedrooms before!!

Even people from Fredericton make mistakes (me!!) lol

Andrew

 

[BKVP]

I guess you're right. I've never seen it. Too new to burning. But once again, I am just saying, that there are likely lots of people who don't follow code for multiple reasons and who shouldn't!!

And as people who are very knowledgeable in your own fields, you are unlikely to see install issues within your circle of friends/family. An example: I am in law enforcement. Guess what: nobody in my circle of friends / family have criminal records or are in jail at the moment pending trial . So I'd doubt that BKVPs mother's stove is not installed to code. And everyone, not just industry employees, must preach following codes. But from someone who lives in an area that is fairly isolated, and where EPA stoves are a new concept and as is seasoning wood, the majority of the installs I have seen don't follow code whatsoever. Hell, 75% of the people here cut their wood in the FALL and burn 2-3 weeks later.

On another note, the OP will fix the problem and have a clear conscience and code will be followed.

A

Leave my mother out of it. Hell, she just discovered texting! You think I would want her to have a wood stove in Los Angeles!! Good job...close the thread.

 

[servant119b]

Wow, this is a lot of replies. I gotta work, I'm going to have to look at these later. There seems to be a very strong consensus. I actually do not disagree with any of you.


So I fired up the stove yesterday and the chimney pipe gets very hot to the touch. I have read online that the chimney pipe should only get warm. When I have this thing on high for 30 minutes to an hour I can easy burn my hand if I touch the chimney pipe. This was happening with 12 eco bricks in the woodstove. Again I'm using a Blaze King King Classic. Selkirk told me it is normal for the chimney pipe to get very hot and the Blaze King tech guy did too.

(I don't have a dealer because the Blaze King "dealer" who installed this thing for me put me at a whole lot more risk than the 1/4 inch we're discussing on here. They had my stove 4 inches from the wall with no side shields, they had the chimney pipe a hair away from the floor of the attic and the roof beams and decking. No insulation shield. They weren't going to get anywhere close to the 10 ft / 2 ft rule... every single step of this process they did wrong. When life slows down I am going to e-mail Blaze King my story. And I paid them $5500 up front with more on the way that they never got when I told them not to come back.)

The IR gun I got from Lowe's last night clearly doesn't work so I am going to borrow my neighbors.

Last night I put 6 Eco Bricks on a bed of coals, waited until they caught fire real good. Burned it on medium a little, and on high a little, with the cat closed, and then put it on low and the fan on low before going to sleep. When I checked it this morning there was quite of bit of Eco Bricks left but the cat was in the inactive zone (the bypass was closed) so I added 8-10 more eco bricks (the right way by opening the bypass) and got it up to high for 20 to 30 minutes but the door did not get clean. There is a brown/black residue on about 1/5 of the glass mainly in the bottom 2 corners. There was some creosote in the stove which I'm sure burned up, but again the glass didn't get clean.

Then when I turn it up to high I'm afraid of the cat getting too hot with such dry fuel. yesterday the cat was 3/4 into the active zone. So until I know what I'm doing I'm burning at medium and the cat is about halfway in the active zone. It's 31 degrees outside, I'm in an old uninsulated farmhouse and the house is not warming up how I figure it should. Doesn't a high cat temp mean a lot of heat?

I plan to do a mix of 1 year seasoned sugar maple / black cherry with Eco Bricks and see what a full load will do. See if I can run it on high with the cat temp not troubling me. What range is too high for the cat temp?

Obviously I have a lot of questions... I'm new at this... if you want to help point anything out I'd appreciate it.

 

[Highbeam]

12 eco bricks in the woodstove

Are these the 8 lb ecobricks? So 96 lbs of fuel. That is a whole lot. Stick with 5 or 6 max.

Don't use the cat meter for anything except determining when the cat is active or inactive. That's all it's for. On super low burns I often have the cat meter all the way at the max. It's not related to stove output like you are using it and you don't need to worry about overheating the cat. The stove won't allow that.

You set the thermostat to command a certain output from the stove. If you set the stat too low then the cat will stall and the meter will say inactive. That's bad. Avoid that. I also don't like to leave the stove on high settings. It doesn't clean the glass for me and I worry about damage to the metal parts in the stove. 30 minutes on high is the most I will do.

So you operate the stat in a range between the low setting that stalls the cat and the high setting. Try 50% on the stat and the fans on 50% with a load of 6 bricks. That usually provides a lot of heat. Then just leave it alone for 12 hours. If that doesn't heat your house when it is 31 outside then I worry you undersized the stove.

 

[therdlesstravld]

If you catch your framing on fire your house will be sure to get up to temperature . Sorry, I just had to!