single wall black pipe insert

[kevinmerchant]

What would cause a shorter life span using a single wall black pipe insert instead of stainless if the top plate protects from elements.

 

[begreen]

Single-wall black pipe is not for enclosure in a chimney as a liner. Maybe the result of a cold chimney condensing moisture and creosote from burning wood that isn't fully seasoned?

 

[CarbonNeutral]

Moisture doesn't just come from rain....

 

[kevinmerchant]

If no block-off plate was put at damper opening, wouldn't that keep the flue dry and warm.
Also assuming seasoned wood is used.
I understand using black pipe is not the norm. But I have plenty of it.
I guess the bottom line is are there safety hazard's or would it be against code.

 

[branchburner]

Once it rusts and rots (which it will) the first holes will dilute the draft and lead to heavier creosote and potential chimney fire.

 

[kevinmerchant]

I understand its not the norm to use black pipe, but can any one give me good reason not to use it besides a shorter life span then stainless.
I have a 3ft section of stainless already to use at the top.
I was also considering a insulation wrap to further increase draft and decrease creosote.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Correct, its against code, and UL1777. Water vapor is a by product of combustion, and this water vapor will rust out the enclosed liner in short order. Single wall can not take the temp of chimey fires, which is why it does not meet UL1777. So, if you had a chimney fire from the hole in the pipe that you did not no was there then your chimney is not protected. IF your chimney was not constructed properly ( i think the curent ratio is about 1/10 are installed correctly per NFPA211) then you risk buring down your house with that chimney fire because your liner is not listed to handle a chimney fire. Bottom line, it will not take the temps from a chimney fire, and you are not able to inspect the single wall. That is what makes it illegal and dangerous for you and your family. Dont do it. Do it right. the chimney is not the place to be cheap.

 

[kevinmerchant]

a ul approved insulation will not protect against chimney fire?

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

No, it has to have a intact liner to make it UL approved. There is no guarantee that the single wall steel pipe will be intact. (it will rust guaranteed within a few years, and disingratiate as fast as 3-5 years) Its the combination of the stainless steel, and the insulation that makes it approved. If there is a hole in the pipe, the insulation will not be as effective if there is not a hole, scorching the inside of your chimney with 2000+ degree fire.

 

[CarbonNeutral]

a ul approved insulation will not protect against chimney fire?

I kind of feel you are trying to find any way to justify using the pipe you already have. It's not to code, it's not safe, it will rust through, and could burn your house down and kill your family/attending firefighters.

Do you need any more reasons not to use it?

 

[branchburner]

Look at your stove/liner/insulation/chimney/hearth setup as a single system. That system is only as good as its weakest link. Make all links strong, all links to code. If one link is out of code it can effectively render them all out of code.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

I'm curious what your local installer/dealer told you...

 

[branchburner]

If no block-off plate was put at damper opening, wouldn't that keep the flue dry and warm.

Remember, that would only be true during the times you are burning. There's a whole lot of rust going on this time of year.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

i strongly urge to listen to MSG and Branchburner on this , single wall black pipe (or double wall black pie for that matter) CANNOT be used as a flue liner it WILL rust out and it WILL create an unsafe condition. remember folks when you invite fire into your house you MUST do it right, the life you save may be your own or your family's. its simply not worth the risk.

 

[jtp10181]

To answer your questions, yes there are safety hazards and yes it would also violate most codes. Most code is simply going to state that you must install everything per the manufacturer specs and listing specs. Wood insert manuals usually state to install a listed liner system. Black pipe is not tested or listed as a masonry liner system. So in a round about way it would violate code.

Here is a good reason not so do it: DEATH

I can't think of any better reason than that...