Single wall Black vs Double wall Black

[Mercury220]

I am currently in a bind for pipe. I need to move my stove forward about 5 inches which would kind of put it in the way to utilize single wall pipe. Otherwise I would need to use double wall. I've heard that single wall stove pipe helps heat your home better which I am going for the most heat possible. Can anybody throw some logs on the topic?

 

[oldspark]

You get a little heat out of the stove pipe but not a game changer IMHO, use what you need to, I have one of the better single wall brands and have no need for double wall what so ever.

 

[begreen]

Most stove makers prefer the single-wall run to be kept short so that the flue gases stay hotter. Note that double-wall pipe still gets hot and releases that heat into the room. In some cases double-wall makes a nice difference, but single-wall might work. Can you describe the entire run starting from the stove and up to the top of the chimney? What brand Class A pipe will you be using?

Edit: I just went back and revisited your last thread. https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/56352/P44/

The stove requires a minimum of 16" from the back wall to the stove back. Based on the picture, the way the stove and hearth are currently set it looks like there is only about 6" from the back of the stove to the wall and less at the window trim. It looks about 10" shy right now. What is the plan to meet clearance requirements? Are you going to move the hearthpad and stove much further out into the room?

 

[Mercury220]

The minimum clearance is actually 14" from the back wall. Right now it is 12" from the wall. I am going to tile the back

 

[shawneyboy]

The minimum clearance is actually 14" from the back wall. Right now it is 12" from the wall. I am going to tile the back

Tile placed directly on the wall will NOT make the clearance any less than 14"

 

[begreen]

The minimum clearance is actually 14" from the back wall. Right now it is 12" from the wall. I am going to tile the back

Where does the 14" dimension come from in the documentation? I must have missed that. B = 16". Seriously, this is not a place for cutting corners.

Tiling the wall will not reduce clearances at all. A properly constructed and installed NFPA 211 wallshield could work, but you would need to have the blessing of the stove mfg. authorizing a protected wall reduction in print. I looked for this option in the manual, but didn't find it. Perhaps I missed it? They do hint that the local authority might allow this. Have you checked? If they say ok, get it in writing. Then a tiled wall shield with an air gap top and bottom can reduce clearances nicely.

There still will be the pipe clearance to deal with, particularly near the wood trim on the window. The options are double-wall pipe or single-wall with heat shields. The cost is about the same but the double-wall makes for a cleaner looking and easier installation. I would go for the double-wall.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/stove_wall_clear

 

[North of 60]

I am currently in a bind for pipe. I need to move my stove forward about 5 inches which would kind of put it in the way to utilize single wall pipe. Otherwise I would need to use double wall. I've heard that single wall stove pipe helps heat your home better which I am going for the most heat possible. Can anybody throw some logs on the topic?

Your stove is meant to do the heating, not the flue. The flue has its own job.
Thats my log for this fire.

 

[skinanbones]

Imperial makes a stove pipe sheild that you can put on single wall pipe and it will reduce the clearance to 9"

 

[Mercury220]

Where does the 14" dimension come from in the documentation? I must have missed that. B = 16". Seriously, this is not a place for cutting corners.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/stove_wall_clear

I don't know where you got the image you have but on the back of my stove, in the manual, as well as the website of the manufacturer says it is 14" for my unit.

If I use double wall pipe, the trim around the window will be 6 inches away.

 

[firefighterjake]

I am currently in a bind for pipe. I need to move my stove forward about 5 inches which would kind of put it in the way to utilize single wall pipe. Otherwise I would need to use double wall. I've heard that single wall stove pipe helps heat your home better which I am going for the most heat possible. Can anybody throw some logs on the topic?

Your stove is meant to do the heating, not the flue. The flue has its own job.
Thats my log for this fire.

My belief as well . . . I use my woodstove to heat the house . . . not my flue. While there may be some heat gain from single wall (or even double wall) I consider the woodstove to be where the bulk of the heat should be produced and radiating . . .

 

[begreen]

Where does the 14" dimension come from in the documentation? I must have missed that. B = 16". Seriously, this is not a place for cutting corners.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/stove_wall_clear

I don't know where you got the image you have but on the back of my stove, in the manual, as well as the website of the manufacturer says it is 14" for my unit.

If I use double wall pipe, the trim around the window will be 6 inches away.

My bad, I had the LWS 130291 manual. Thanks for the correction.

If you want to protect the walls, PH has provided the suggestion below. Unfortunately, it is a bit of a copout and not too helpful. But if you do want to add a degree of protection, there are several options. A simple tiling will not provide much protection except the insulation of the cement board behind the tile. But that is better than nothing. It depends on how close the back of the stove finally ends up. The final stove location can also depend to a certain extent on the way the ceiling joists run and where they are located.

3) If noncombustible materials have been installed on
the walls, obtain the minimum clearances from either
the manufacturer of these materials or the local
building inspectors office.

 

[Heftiger]

Where does the 14" dimension come from in the documentation? I must have missed that. B = 16". Seriously, this is not a place for cutting corners.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/stove_wall_clear

I don't know where you got the image you have but on the back of my stove, in the manual, as well as the website of the manufacturer says it is 14" for my unit.

If I use double wall pipe, the trim around the window will be 6 inches away.

My bad, I had the LWS 130291 manual. Thanks for the correction.

If you want to protect the walls, PH has provided the suggestion below. Unfortunately, it is a bit of a copout and not too helpful. But if you do want to add a degree of protection, there are several options. A simple tiling will not provide much protection except the insulation of the cement board behind the tile. But that is better than nothing. It depends on how close the back of the stove finally ends up. The final stove location can also depend to a certain extent on the way the ceiling joists run and where they are located.

3) If noncombustible materials have been installed on
the walls, obtain the minimum clearances from either
the manufacturer of these materials or the local
building inspectors office.

This interests me. I was planning on installing a large hearth made out of brick or stone. Are you saying that even with brick or stone lining the wall, my clearences will not be reduced?

 

[Pagey]

Where does the 14" dimension come from in the documentation? I must have missed that. B = 16". Seriously, this is not a place for cutting corners.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/stove_wall_clear

I don't know where you got the image you have but on the back of my stove, in the manual, as well as the website of the manufacturer says it is 14" for my unit.

If I use double wall pipe, the trim around the window will be 6 inches away.

My bad, I had the LWS 130291 manual. Thanks for the correction.

If you want to protect the walls, PH has provided the suggestion below. Unfortunately, it is a bit of a copout and not too helpful. But if you do want to add a degree of protection, there are several options. A simple tiling will not provide much protection except the insulation of the cement board behind the tile. But that is better than nothing. It depends on how close the back of the stove finally ends up. The final stove location can also depend to a certain extent on the way the ceiling joists run and where they are located.

3) If noncombustible materials have been installed on
the walls, obtain the minimum clearances from either
the manufacturer of these materials or the local
building inspectors office.

This interests me. I was planning on installing a large hearth made out of brick or stone. Are you saying that even with brick or stone lining the wall, my clearences will not be reduced?

Correct. All a non-combustible surface does (without a 1" air space) is transfer heat to the combustibles behind it. In order to reduce clearances, you must use an approved non-combustible surface with a 1" airspace on all 4 sides. Also, your stove manufacturer must approve the additional reduced clearances afforded by such wall protection.

 

[tfdchief]

I am currently in a bind for pipe. I need to move my stove forward about 5 inches which would kind of put it in the way to utilize single wall pipe. Otherwise I would need to use double wall. I've heard that single wall stove pipe helps heat your home better which I am going for the most heat possible. Can anybody throw some logs on the topic?

Your stove is meant to do the heating, not the flue. The flue has its own job.
Thats my log for this fire.

My belief as well . . . I use my woodstove to heat the house . . . not my flue. While there may be some heat gain from single wall (or even double wall) I consider the woodstove to be where the bulk of the heat should be produced and radiating . . .

I agree with Jake. My thoughts are first, use what you need to make the installation safe. Double wall gives you less clearance to combustibles, 6 inches. My deciding factor was simply, that being in the business I am, one piece of 24 gauge steel pipe between me and a fire in my house is not acceptable. I used the double wall. Hell, if they made triple wall stove pipe connector, I would have bought it. While I am on my soap box. I wish manufactures of chimney systems would give guys like me some options. I have more clearance to combustibles than required everywhere except the ceiling support box. It is built with the minimum required 2 inches to combustibles, in this case, the framing that supports it. I wish chimney manufactures would offer options.....like a ceiling support box with 4 inches clearance to combustibles.....the framing that supports it......Nerds like me would pay extra for it >:-(

 

[oldspark]

I am currently in a bind for pipe. I need to move my stove forward about 5 inches which would kind of put it in the way to utilize single wall pipe. Otherwise I would need to use double wall. I've heard that single wall stove pipe helps heat your home better which I am going for the most heat possible. Can anybody throw some logs on the topic?

Your stove is meant to do the heating, not the flue. The flue has its own job.
Thats my log for this fire.

My belief as well . . . I use my woodstove to heat the house . . . not my flue. While there may be some heat gain from single wall (or even double wall) I consider the woodstove to be where the bulk of the heat should be produced and radiating . . .

I agree with Jake. My thoughts are first, use what you need to make the installation safe. Double wall gives you less clearance to combustibles, 6 inches. My deciding factor was simply, that being in the business I am, one piece of 24 gauge steel pipe between me and a fire in my house is not acceptable. I used the double wall. Hell, if they made triple wall stove pipe connector, I would have bought it. While I am on my soap box. I wish manufactures of chimney systems would give guys like me some options. I have more clearance to combustibles than required everywhere except the ceiling support box. It is built with the minimum required 2 inches to combustibles, in this case, the framing that supports it. I wish chimney manufactures would offer options.....like a ceiling support box with 4 inches clearance to combustibles.....the framing that supports it......Nerds like me would pay extra for it >:-(

If I was you I would run class A pipe right up to the stove.

 

[tfdchief]

If I was you I would run class A pipe right up to the stove.

I thought about it! Wife put the nix on that 'cause of the looks. :coolsmirk:

 

[begreen]

This interests me. I was planning on installing a large hearth made out of brick or stone. Are you saying that even with brick or stone lining the wall, my clearences will not be reduced?

Correct. All a non-combustible surface does (without a 1" air space) is transfer heat to the combustibles behind it. In order to reduce clearances, you must use an approved non-combustible surface with a 1" airspace on all 4 sides. Also, your stove manufacturer must approve the additional reduced clearances afforded by such wall protection.

That's partly right. A wall shield with an airspace will take less room and will give great wall protection, but a solid, full brick wall will achieve a 33% reduction by the NFPA table, if the mfg. allows it.

Mercury, here's the NFPA 211 table you need to refer to when talking with the Pleasant Hearth folks about clearance reductions.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/NFPA_Wall_Clearance_Reductions/

 

[Lewisthepilgrim]

If I was you I would run class A pipe right up to the stove.

what is class A ?

 

[begreen]

Insulated chimney pipe as opposed to the connector pipe.

 

[firefighterjake]

I am currently in a bind for pipe. I need to move my stove forward about 5 inches which would kind of put it in the way to utilize single wall pipe. Otherwise I would need to use double wall. I've heard that single wall stove pipe helps heat your home better which I am going for the most heat possible. Can anybody throw some logs on the topic?

Your stove is meant to do the heating, not the flue. The flue has its own job.
Thats my log for this fire.

My belief as well . . . I use my woodstove to heat the house . . . not my flue. While there may be some heat gain from single wall (or even double wall) I consider the woodstove to be where the bulk of the heat should be produced and radiating . . .

I agree with Jake. My thoughts are first, use what you need to make the installation safe. Double wall gives you less clearance to combustibles, 6 inches. My deciding factor was simply, that being in the business I am, one piece of 24 gauge steel pipe between me and a fire in my house is not acceptable. I used the double wall. Hell, if they made triple wall stove pipe connector, I would have bought it. While I am on my soap box. I wish manufactures of chimney systems would give guys like me some options. I have more clearance to combustibles than required everywhere except the ceiling support box. It is built with the minimum required 2 inches to combustibles, in this case, the framing that supports it. I wish chimney manufactures would offer options.....like a ceiling support box with 4 inches clearance to combustibles.....the framing that supports it......Nerds like me would pay extra for it >:-(

You see enough fires and the heartache and grief that come with them . . . and you soon realize that you don't want to experience that in your own home and begin to over-do things when it comes to potential fire causes . . . it's not a bad thing Steve.

 

[oldspark]

I am being totaly serious here, if I was as paranoid as tfdchief about wood burners I would not have one in my house, maybe he is over stating the fact, not sure.

 

[firefighterjake]

I am being totaly serious here, if I was as paranoid as tfdchief about wood burners I would not have one in my house, maybe he is over stating the fact, not sure.

Paranoid and cautious . . . it's all in a matter of perspective . . . and degree.

I.E. Being cautious with a woodstove to me is over-building the hearth or exceeding the clearances or cleaning the chimney more frequently . . . paranoid is only installing the woodstove in a concrete building with nothing combustible within 6 feet.

I.E. Being cautious with an upcoming snow storm is making sure the woodbox is full, generator has gas and there is food and water in case of a power outage . . . paranoid is building a survival shelter for the upcoming Ice Age.

 

[oldspark]

Paronoid is thinking you need some thing better than single wall stove pipe with the right clearances! :lol:

 

[firefighterjake]

Paronoid is thinking you need some thing better than single wall stove pipe with the right clearances! :lol:

. . . or wearing both a belt and suspenders?

My own take honestly is that as long as the minimum requirements are meant it's all good . . . but it never hurt anyone to exceed those minimum requirements . . . and for some folks it gives us a peace of mind.

 

[BlankBlankBlank]

. . . paranoid is building a survival shelter for the upcoming Ice Age.

Ice age! When? This the first I've heard. I need more wood!! Help!! Help!!