I recently installed a used Dovre (Quadrafire) Isle Royale in my Great Room addition. It replaced a little VC Intrepid II that I loved but that was too small for the house especially with the new room. Our house is a drafty two story 1920 Craftsman. First floor is about 1700 SF second is about 800 SF. I lined my old masonry chimney and have good draft (the chimney is tall and located in the approximate center of the house). I am very happy with the heat output of the Isle Royale and like the start up controls but I'm having a little trouble mastering a slow burn. I burn mostly seasoned doug fur but in the evening load the box with a fir/oak mixture. Inevitably with the control closed as far as it will go - on a bed of coals the load will take off producing a 650 degree fire (measured on the stove top) and burning out most if not all the coals by the time I get up. The heat is excellent (cooks us out sometimes) but I want to control the fire more. Is it all about the wood? Oak certainly grows around here but Fir is common and easy to get. I cut and split my own (don't like to pay for wood if I don't have to). Any burn control techniques you have would be appreciated.
Slow Burn Qurstion - Isle Royale
- Thread starter Douglas Fir
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Was the stove checked carefully for worn gaskets and airleaks? If not try the dollar bill test on the front door, top feed and the ash pan door. Also looks for any grit of charcoal pieces wedged in the ashpan door gasket.
As BeGreen said, biggest culprit for not being able to control the fire is too much air getting in. That unit has an ash cleanout also. Check gasketing on the griddle top, doors (and glass in the doors), and ash compartment. If the unit has original gasketing on it, I would just replace it all. This unit also is a true cast iron unit, so some of the cast pieces are sealed together with furnace cement. Check the corner and top plate joints with a bright light or even smoke test to try and find any leaks. I have worked on a few pretty old beat up Dover Isle Royals and have not found any joint leaks so I would not spend too much time going down that road. Also make sure the top baffles and blanket are in place. You should have 3 or 4 plates that lay across the top to form the baffle and then an insulation blanket over that to seal it all up and add insulation value. If you are not sure what I am talking about, do you have a manual for it? I might be able to dig up an old manual if we need it. Also a thing to check would be your connector pipe (black pipe) make sure all the joints are tight and no air can leak into the pipe. Extra air in the flue can cause either poor draft or too much draft depending on circumstances.
Thats all I can think of right now...
Thats all I can think of right now...
In anticipation of potential overdraft problems, I put an inline damper in at installation time. I rarely need to use it
because the stove runs great at about 70-90% primary air off, but I believe it does give me another measure of
control. Before pursuing that though, I'd eliminate the other potential issues that the posters above have raised.
The other thing is that if you're still getting some coals on an overnight burn with a mix of soft and hard wood, it's
not all bad. For clarification purposes, are you saying you're reloading for overnight burn with the primary and start
up air shut all the way down and it still takes off to 650? That must be some easy burning fir. My set-up would
definitely choke and die if I tried a full reload with all air off. Normally on reload, I have the primary air wide open
until the temps hit at least 500 and then I start to gradually turn down the air.
because the stove runs great at about 70-90% primary air off, but I believe it does give me another measure of
control. Before pursuing that though, I'd eliminate the other potential issues that the posters above have raised.
The other thing is that if you're still getting some coals on an overnight burn with a mix of soft and hard wood, it's
not all bad. For clarification purposes, are you saying you're reloading for overnight burn with the primary and start
up air shut all the way down and it still takes off to 650? That must be some easy burning fir. My set-up would
definitely choke and die if I tried a full reload with all air off. Normally on reload, I have the primary air wide open
until the temps hit at least 500 and then I start to gradually turn down the air.
Thanks for the quick replies.
BeGreen - I found the definition of the dollar bill test - I'll definitely give that a try. The stove is in good condition but some of the gaskets looked a little compressed. The test should answer my questions.
JTP - Your comment on the flue brought something to mind, when re-installing my double wall simpson duravent to my new (used) Isle Royale I left off the first adapter piece with the crimped edge which extends into the flue opening of the stove. As it is now I just have the first piece of pipe attached directly to the flue opening with no adapter. The inexperienced sales person at the farm store (blind leading the blind) assured me I needed it so I used it on the VC setup before but when reconnecting the pipe to the Isle Royale it just didn't seem necessary. I had learned so far to doubt the information from the farm store sales person but maybe I doubted too much on this one. I guess I'll just put it back on (easy fix - telescoping pipe). Never noticed any smoke issues but could have been a stupid mistake.
Northwinds - I must be getting some extra air from somewhere, I could fairly easily choke off the Intrepid II but once the IR is warmed up even with moderate coals Fir will take off. The only way I can manage even a few morning coals is to load it up with a fir/oak (more oak than fir) at night and watch it pick up up speed off the coals, turn into an inferno and hope there are enough nuggets left to start a fire in the morning. Eats a lot of wood in the process.
You've all given me a few things to look at tonight. I like the power of this stove especially compared to the little Intrepid II but it's been a bit of a beast to control. I'm glad to see it's probably simple maintenance/operator error. Thanks for the help. I'll follow up.
BeGreen - I found the definition of the dollar bill test - I'll definitely give that a try. The stove is in good condition but some of the gaskets looked a little compressed. The test should answer my questions.
JTP - Your comment on the flue brought something to mind, when re-installing my double wall simpson duravent to my new (used) Isle Royale I left off the first adapter piece with the crimped edge which extends into the flue opening of the stove. As it is now I just have the first piece of pipe attached directly to the flue opening with no adapter. The inexperienced sales person at the farm store (blind leading the blind) assured me I needed it so I used it on the VC setup before but when reconnecting the pipe to the Isle Royale it just didn't seem necessary. I had learned so far to doubt the information from the farm store sales person but maybe I doubted too much on this one. I guess I'll just put it back on (easy fix - telescoping pipe). Never noticed any smoke issues but could have been a stupid mistake.
Northwinds - I must be getting some extra air from somewhere, I could fairly easily choke off the Intrepid II but once the IR is warmed up even with moderate coals Fir will take off. The only way I can manage even a few morning coals is to load it up with a fir/oak (more oak than fir) at night and watch it pick up up speed off the coals, turn into an inferno and hope there are enough nuggets left to start a fire in the morning. Eats a lot of wood in the process.
You've all given me a few things to look at tonight. I like the power of this stove especially compared to the little Intrepid II but it's been a bit of a beast to control. I'm glad to see it's probably simple maintenance/operator error. Thanks for the help. I'll follow up.
Actually our installers have found on the Quad units the Simpson double wall pipe we use fits on the stove better without the adaptor. They usually don't use it either. Just make sure the inner pipe wall fits INSIDE the collar of the unit or you could get some drippings coming out on top of the stove.
Also I forgot to mention, somewhere I saw someone testing the leakiness of their ash pan by taking some thick tin foil and putting the ash grate over it, basically sealing the ash chamber off from the unit. This would simply be a test to see if it makes a difference, then you can either focus on, or eliminate, the ash removal system as a culprit.
Also I forgot to mention, somewhere I saw someone testing the leakiness of their ash pan by taking some thick tin foil and putting the ash grate over it, basically sealing the ash chamber off from the unit. This would simply be a test to see if it makes a difference, then you can either focus on, or eliminate, the ash removal system as a culprit.
JTP - Shoot, I was kind of hoping the stovepipe might be the problem. But good to know. I've been curious about the ashpan door. It never feels like I'm compressing much gasket material. Only thing is the ashpan gasket looks pretty good from my perspective. I'll try the dollar test first and the foil test if needed. Regarding the manual, I don't have one. When deciding to purchase the used unit I struggled with the Dovre/Quadra-Fire name issue. The seller of the used stove had advertised it as a Quadra-Fire but after he sent me more detailed pictures the nameplate clearly said Dovre. I did some quick research and found that Quadra-Fire (or it's parent company) had purchased Dovre. I can't remember the exact date of manufacture on my stove off hand but think it was 2001. I can check when I get home tonight. If you have or can tell me where I can get a manual for a Dovre I would appreciate it. Manuals for the Quadra-Fire are available on line but I haven't found Dovre. My installation will need to be inspected and I'm not sure I can convince the building official that a Dovre is the same as a Quadre-Fire.
Regarding Gaskets - Do I need a specific kit for my stove or can I buy a roll, and what what kind do I look for specifically. I was a carpenter in my earlier career, so I'm familiar with tools and am reasonably handy.
Regarding Gaskets - Do I need a specific kit for my stove or can I buy a roll, and what what kind do I look for specifically. I was a carpenter in my earlier career, so I'm familiar with tools and am reasonably handy.
Each thing has diff gasket sizes. If we find a manual it might have the sizes in it, or you can look in the new manual I am pretty sure its the same. I have always ordered gasketing from Quad but stuff from the hardware store should work OK.
Ok, did the dollar bill test. With some resistance it moves through the front loading doors and ashpan door. It looks like the door gasket may have been replaced but maybe not the ashpan gasket. I looked on the manual - it seems to show two different kinds of gasket - one it calls door gasket and the other item is 10'-0 of 1/4" gasket. It doesn't specify the size of the door gasket or what the 1/4" material is for, I'm assuming the griddle and the ashpan. Sure I could figure it out but what about high/low density material. I'm guessing the job is one you don't want to do every year so I'd rather have the good stuff. Better to order the factory seal I suppose, right? I'd like to just order a kit pre-cut to help eliminate fraying.
Replaced the ash pan gasket first and tightened the front loading door latch. Door Gasket looked new but the door needed adjustment. Picked up enough extra gasket to do the griddle lid and the doors but it looks like the ashpan seal was the culprit. Now I have control, much better. For reference I used 5/16 rope on the Ashpan and bought 1/2" for the doors. I now appreciate the importance of gasket.
Thanks for all the help.
Thanks for all the help.
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