small woodstove for a well insulated cabin?

[roundright]

We are building a cabin right now (16' x 20' 320sf) that is fairly well insulated (r19 walls, r30 floors, and r19-r50 roof) and I'm trying to pick a good wood stove for it. The stove will be our primary source of heat so I am looking for something with a long burn time. I would love not to have to get up in the night to feed it and still have coals in the morning, but I'm also afraid of frying ourselves out of such a small space trying to achieve this goal.

We currently live in a schoolbus and have learned not to fill our little Vozelgang all the way. Even though it could mean I get to sleep through the night, the times we have tried it, we woke up dry and overheated, with the stove roaring about 2 or 3 am. Now we just use 2 or 3 logs at a time and load it a couple times during the night. My fear, considering that our new space will be not much bigger, but much better insulated, is that this problem will be exacerbated by the insulation. But it gives me hope though, to think about how un-airtight our vozelgang is, leading to really hot fires when it is full. I'm hoping a new small stove with a much more controlled airflow will give us the right balance to avoid night time overheating and still get plenty of Z's.

Ideally, I wouldn't have to shut down the intake on an airtight stove and burn a smoky fire all night long to get some real sleep, but I know myself well enough to know that that is exactly what will happen if it is the only way. Any suggestions?

 

[downeast]

We are building a cabin right now (16' x 20' 320sf) that is fairly well insulated (r19 walls, r30 floors, and r19-r50 roof) and I'm trying to pick a good wood stove for it. The stove will be our primary source of heat so I am looking for something with a long burn time. I would love not to have to get up in the night to feed it and still have coals in the morning, but I'm also afraid of frying ourselves out of such a small space trying to achieve this goal.
We currently live in a schoolbus and have learned not to fill our little Vozelgang all the way. Even though it could mean I get to sleep through the night, the times we have tried it, we woke up dry and overheated, with the stove roaring about 2 or 3 am. Now we just use 2 or 3 logs at a time and load it a couple times during the night. My fear, considering that our new space will be not much bigger, but much better insulated, is that this problem will be exacerbated by the insulation. But it gives me hope though, to think about how un-airtight our vozelgang is, leading to really hot fires when it is full. I'm hoping a new small stove with a much more controlled airflow will give us the right balance to avoid night time overheating and still get plenty of Z's.
Ideally, I wouldn't have to shut down the intake on an airtight stove and burn a smoky fire all night long to get some real sleep, but I know myself well enough to know that that is exactly what will happen if it is the only way. Any suggestions?

Couple of suggestions from what we've done in an uninsulated cabin in the north woods of Maine with older non-EPA stoves and using only available spruce and fir softwoods.

1. Forget heating the place through the night. Invest in a high loft down comforter ( we used our winter mountaineering bags rated to -30 F ) and enjoy the cold room while toasty warm. It is romantic.....you do need some romance, don't you ? You quickly get accustomed to running to the stove for the morning warmup. Not as bad as it sounds with a big pile robe and fur slippers !

2. Get a good small EPA stove like the tried and true Jotul 602. It'll hold coals, but not a warm fire for the night especially in W. VA. and your insulated camp. Or go to a slightly larger steel stove, using small loads. Damn, it can't get too cold that far south....can it ? :lol:

 

[crazy_dan]

With only 320 SQ FT it is gonna be hard to find one small enough to not run you out of there, I really don't think you will find one that will run all night without a reload in as small of a size you need.

The LOPI Answer, Englander 13, PE Vista, PE T4 are a few of the small stoves to look at and they are still rated at 1500 sq ft

 

[fossil]

I've seen some pretty nice little solid fuel-burning stoves made primarily for boats that would heat that space when you want it heated, and wouldn't take up a large footprint. Sorry I can't recall any specifics on them, but they're neat little units. Rick

 

[JMF1]

A Lopi Answer with a smaller load would probably work......and 1500sq ft is a strech, trust me. The problem I see with a bigger stove in a small area is by the time you get it up to temp, you'll be lookin for the door! I used to have coals after a 6-8 hr period with my Answer.....hope this helps.

 

[Hanko]

Got internet in your schoolbus? maybe a 13NC with very small fires

 

[ansehnlich1]

First off, welcome here, I love WV. Been all over the state.

Sleepy Creek, Bruceton Mills, Beckley, everywhere in between! Dolly Sods, Marlinton, Seneca Rocks, New River.......

MOUNTAIN MOMMA!

Now look, you're gonna have a cabin well insulated. My wife and I have a house, well insulated. I couldn't get over how well the thing holds heat. What I mean is, a well insulated place, with good windows, if you build a fire in a small stove in that cabin, my bet is it'll surprise you what temperature you're at in the morning.

Jotul makes the F-602:
http://www.jotul.com/en-us/wwwjotulus/Main-menu/Products/Wood/Wood-stoves/Jotul-F-602-CB/

Vermont Castings makes the Aspen:
http://www.vermontcastings.com/content/products/productdetails.cfm?id=135

I found this online, it's for ice fishing, only 139$ canadian,
http://goodoutdoors.theshoppe.com/wilderness_shanty_wood_stove.html

There's also some wood stoves used in the marine industry, for boats.....

 

[wayneg]

I have the Morso 1410 Squirrel in my even smaller cabin (144 square feet). It has a very small footprint so it takes up little room. Only takes a 12" log max so if you don't like extra cutting it might not be for you. The heat is just about right, but consider that my cabin has no insulation anywhere. Only about a 3 hour burn max, so I also have a -30 degF sleeping bag and don't mind waking up to a cold cabin to rekindle the fire.

 

[Corie]

besides the aspen and the 602 that were already mentioned, check out the smaller morso stoves, the jotul f100 and maybe even the vermont castings intrepid. Larger non cat stoves like the13nc are going to overheat such a tiny space.

-Posted via iPhone

 

[fossil]

More ideas along these lines:

http://www.marinestove.com/

just depends on how much of your well-insulated 320 square feet you want to devote to placing a woodburning appliance, and what you expect out of it. Rick

 

[woodconvert]

author="roundright" date="1226290753"]We are building a cabin right now (16' x 20' 320sf) that is fairly well insulated (r19 walls, r30 floors, and r19-r50 roof) and I'm trying to pick a good wood stove for it.

At 320sq ft you could probably heat it during the day with a candle and for overnight try a sterno can

 

[BrotherBart]

That is the kinda place the Jotul F100 was born for. With that kind of insulation and good dry hardwood the shoebox size firebox on it will not hold a fire all night but you will still be warm in the morning. You will get a couple of hours burn and heat for a two or three more at least. And has a very small footprint.

Of course with the large glass in the door of it you can also light a place that size with it. And the biggest problem you will have in that small a space is the radiant heat from the door glass. But man is it good to have first thing on a cold morning. When I burned our F100 in my office I had it aimed right at my desk.

 

[jotul8e2]

In a space that size you need to take into account the btu value of the inhabitants, lighting, any appliances - refrigerator, water heater, cookstove, etc. If you use quality windows with isulating shades, a good insulated door, and insulate the floor as well as the walls, it is entirely possible that you will need no heating source at all!

I have a shop building with similar r values here in Missouri and it never drops below freezing inside. Never. It is 2200 sq. ft. with a garage style overhead door, and I heat it - when I choose - with an old Dutchwest Large catalytic which was rated for something like 1200 sq. ft. I cool it only to keep the humidity controlled (I build cabinets out there) with a 11,500 btu window air conditioner.

Seriously, if you build it tight your bigger issue is likely to be fresh air exchange. Two people in a space that size are going to (a) use a great deal of the available oxygen, and (b) generate an amazing amount of moisture on every surface. Not that you would suffocate, but it could easily get uncomfortable.

Any wood burning stove is going to be tough to run with a low enough output to allow you to stay inside. The exceptions are some of those tiny little stoves sold for marine use, of course. The Jotul 602 would be a great stove, but for 320 sq. ft.? With clearances, it is going to require almost 10% of your total available space! But even then is it worth it to have to cut wood to 14" or less (I know, 16" log length, but I had a stove with that same size firebox, and 14", or even less, is a lot easier to work with) split down to matchstick size just to get it through the door? If you do go that way, though, outside air is going to be a must.

Please excuse the heresy, but I think I'd get a vented propane furnace. I really doubt you would burn 100 gal. per year.

Hoping it all works out - Mark

 

[downeast]

FS: get the down comforter. Think of the bennies and the price. No maintenance. It's not the Yukon, Minnesota or the North Woods; it's W. VA , even if it's "Northern".!

 

[downeast]

More ideas along these lines:
http://www.marinestove.com/
just depends on how much of your well-insulated 320 square feet you want to devote to placing a woodburning appliance, and what you expect out of it. Rick

What have you been smoking Fossil ? Ever actually seen those solid fuel marine stoves ? They take a 4" square chunk of wood, have .3 cubic foot firebox, and are built for boat cabins that are maybe ~ 2 ft² :lol: . Used to be called "forecastles" as a marine funny. They are tiny, one is called "Sardine". Get it ? %-P

 

[Todd]

What you need is a small cat stove. You can really turn them down to a long slow and low BTU output. Look into a Woodstock Keystone, Palladian or the Vermont Castings Intrepid II, and small Dutchwest. All four will give you an overnight burn with a small 1.5cu ft fire box.

 

[fossil]

...What have you been smoking Fossil ? Ever actually seen those solid fuel marine stoves ? They take a 4" square chunk of wood, have .3 cubic foot firebox, and are built for boat cabins that are maybe ~ 2 ft² :lol: . Used to be called "forecastles" as a marine funny. They are tiny, one is called "Sardine". Get it ? %-P

Oh, downeast, I've seen just about every imaginable marine stove, and spent a good deal of my life on the water, in everything from El Toros, homebuilt hydroplanes and cabin cruisers, 26' whaleboats, through 63' AVR's, sailboats of many descriptions, then Submarines, Frigates, Destroyers, Cruisers, and Aircraft Carriers. You want to tell me about boats? I'm all ears. We're brainstorming here, trying to toss out ideas for roundright to consider in how best to heat the little cabin. I'm not really into dissing anyone else's suggested direction to investigate, because you just never know where the answer might be found. Rick

 

[crazy_dan]

More ideas along these lines:
http://www.marinestove.com/
just depends on how much of your well-insulated 320 square feet you want to devote to placing a woodburning appliance, and what you expect out of it. Rick

What have you been smoking Fossil ? Ever actually seen those solid fuel marine stoves ? They take a 4" square chunk of wood, have .3 cubic foot firebox, and are built for boat cabins that are maybe ~ 2 ft² :lol: . Used to be called "forecastles" as a marine funny. They are tiny, one is called "Sardine". Get it ? %-P

I here it is pine his stove is not smoking just burning

 

[wellbuilt home]

I really like a small soap stone stoves for a small space, it doesn't get to hot and stays warm for a long time . You could burn small hot fire at night and the cabin would stay warm all day. I like the small VCDW and the VC intrepid fair view cat stove would be my 1st pick. 16x20 is kinda small . I like 18x 24 for a cabin The cost is about the same it doesn't take any longer to build . just a thought John

 

[EatenByLimestone]

With all of that insulation around that small of a package I don't think you would have to worry too much. I think you would be able to heat it just fine with 2 electric space heaters, but a small stove will make it more cozy. Your place will hold the heat just fine. Get a small stove and be happy. If you pick a stove that is too big I think you will run the risk of never really firing it off and it will burn inefficiently.

We heat the front room of our cabin (16x20 with no insulation) and can be comfortable down into the 20s with 2 1500 watt space heaters. With your insulation you should be able to go lower without any issues. I just installed a 20K propane heater in it for when we go up during the winter and it has to go from much colder temps to something reasonable fairly quickly.

Matt

 

[roundright]

Wow, what an amazing forum, so many responses overnight. Thanks for everybody's input. Yes, I hope I am surprised by our morning temperatures if I let the fire go out. probably I'm worrying for nothing. with a 4 hour burn time, If its 75 when the fire effectively goes out, hopefully its at least in the high 50's when I get up four hours later.

For those who think of WV as the tropics, that may be true for most of the state, but our little spot is pretty unique. we are at 2600 ft (I know thats just a mole hill for those from out west like myself, but for Appalachia it's getting up there) and live in a frost pocket known as the Cranesville swamp. We will often see -20F in the dead of winter. We also live a the bottom of the pocket, so while they may have -5F a few miles a way, we can get -10F at the top of the hill and -15F where the cabin is. It is a great spot because its an ecological niche where you find all sorts of species, such as cranberries and Tamarack that you only find elsewhere in places much farther north. Its especially beautiful in the fall when all the trees in the swamp turn colors before the surrounding hillsides.

I'm leaning toward the VC aspen or the Jotul 602, but may go with the Intrepid II since I've never had a cat stove and am curious to experience how they function.

Somebody asked about our internet. Yes it is in the bus, but its still dial-up, our only choice out here. The bus is actually very functional with a propane range and oven, little fridge, kitchen sink, bathtub and composting toilet (aka sawdust bucket). No running water in frost times however.

 

[ansehnlich1]

Yeah, I'm changin' my mind on this one.

I don't think I'd put a woodstove in there.

There, I said it, whew! Now I feel better

As mentioned, a small propane stove would be a great option, or some high tech electric heater....

Hey, I think he mentioned it was 320 sq ft., for cryin out loud, that ain't very big!

 

[downeast]

...What have you been smoking Fossil ? Ever actually seen those solid fuel marine stoves ? They take a 4" square chunk of wood, have .3 cubic foot firebox, and are built for boat cabins that are maybe ~ 2 ft² :lol: . Used to be called "forecastles" as a marine funny. They are tiny, one is called "Sardine". Get it ? %-P

Oh, downeast, I've seen just about every imaginable marine stove, and spent a good deal of my life on the water, in everything from El Toros, homebuilt hydroplanes and cabin cruisers, 26' whaleboats, through 63' AVR's, sailboats of many descriptions, then Submarines, Frigates, Destroyers, Cruisers, and Aircraft Carriers. You want to tell me about boats? I'm all ears. We're brainstorming here, trying to toss out ideas for roundright to consider in how best to heat the little cabin. I'm not really into dissing anyone else's suggested direction to investigate, because you just never know where the answer might be found. Rick

Rick, Rick, Rick. Lighten up. We need some clarificatiuon here , for us dirt-bound people with only civilian sea time, and very very unpleasant sea transport experience:

El Toros = _____ ??
AVR's = ______ ??

Do "homemade hydroplanes" have forecastles====with solid fuel marine stoves ?

And how about those "...submarines, frigates, destroyers, cruisers, aircraft carriers..." you served on, what did they heat with ? The ones that we used for transport used #2 bunker oil. Not a stick of wood or coal to be found on board. :roll:
I am all ears.

 

[dvellone]

That is the kinda place the Jotul F100 was born for. With that kind of insulation and good dry hardwood the shoebox size firebox on it will not hold a fire all night but you will still be warm in the morning. You will get a couple of hours burn and heat for a two or three more at least. And has a very small footprint.

Of course with the large glass in the door of it you can also light a place that size with it. And the biggest problem you will have in that small a space is the radiant heat from the door glass. But man is it good to have first thing on a cold morning. When I burned our F100 in my office I had it aimed right at my desk.

I agree with Brother Bart. We heated our 800 sq. ft. cabin with the f100 and although it was a bit undersized for our application that little stove performed beautifully.
Nice secondary burns, and remarkably high heat output for such a small stove. The small firebox also seemed well suited to smaller fires when the temps. weren't that low outside. The lack of an ash drawer was definitely a pain but your square footage should reduce the frequency of emptying ash.
Mine performed best when I vented straight up through the house.
Also, when burning hard maple, yellow birch, or beech I could often load at 11pm. and still have some coals in the early morning.