Smoke Smell After Fire Out

[jeffs]

Recently installed a Napoleon 1900 in our finished basement. Fired it up for the first time last weekend, and it worked fine. We intentionally let the fire go out Sunday night. Logs burned completely down to ash. We had no smoke smell while it was burning, some pretty strong paint smell the first day as expected, but not a "smokey" smell. But now, 2 days later, when it's well out (cold, nothing but ashes in there), we have a VERY strong smokey smell in the basement.

My guess is, that while it was burning, the draft carried the smoke up and out. But now, the cool air is sinking down the chimney and carrying the smokey smell into the room. (Not smoke, just the smell) As far as I can tell the damper (on the stove) can't be closed completely, just stopped way down to LOW. I do not have a damper in the stovepipe. I read that you don't need one on the newer EPA certified stoves, which this is, as they have a built-in damper.

Is this normal? It smells like the inside of a smokehouse down there.
Should I put a pipe damper in? Do they seal the pipe that tightly?

Additional info, we had a new, insulated, stainless-steel liner (DuraVent) installed as part of the installation. Also, the house is less than 15 years old, and sealed pretty tight. So I guess we could be getting negative air pressure as well.

 

[northernontario]

Likely even after two days, if you go digging around in the ashes, you'll find hot coals. And sounds like you've identified your problem... when the stove is essentially cold, you're getting backdraft, which is pushing smoke into the living space.

Can you provide outside air to the stove? Increase the chimney height to improve the natural draft?

 

[jeffs]

Chimney is brick (with liner inside). Very tall already, runs against side of 2-story house, and extending about 4 feet above roof of that. Would it need to be taller than that?

 

[bpm44]

Sounds like negative pressure, possibly coupled with the weather fronts that have been moving through.

Typically in-line dampers don't seal tightly. Maybe an OAK (outdoor air kit) would solve the problem.

Tell us a little more about your topography - any tall trees nearby or things like that...

 

[jeffs]

We are surrounded by woods. Not close to the house, but around edges of yard. Trees are normal height maples, oaks. Not sure what you would consider tall. They are not towering pines. Topography is a gentle slope from east to west, chimney is on the southwest side (where our winds normally come from).

I should also mention that we have a fireplace upstairs (ZC prefab Heatilator). The chimney has double (parallel) but separate flues. When we would burn in the fireplace, we sometimes get a backdraft down the other chimney, that would pull some smoke down into the basement, so we had insulation stuffed in the thimble, and the clean-out door duct-taped shut. That of course was all removed when we installed the new liner. The clean-out door is no longer needed at all, so that is sealed shut.

 

[webbie]

Is this normal? It smells like the inside of a smokehouse down there.
Should I put a pipe damper in? Do they seal the pipe that tightly?
.

Dampers do not seal the pipe that tightly. You will find lots of info on the site by using the terms "downdraft chimney" or similar in the site search....one is below:
"Other Chimney Problems :
Flow Reversal or Down drafting chimney—This is the most common problem I have run into in my 20 years of business. A typical phone call comes in from a customer saying “I’m trying to light my stove and the whole house is filling up with smokeâ€. Of course, the problem is not with the stove, but with a chimney that has reversed. Cold air falls and warm air rises, we all know this and take it for granted…well, your chimney knows it too ! When it’s not in use, the cold air from outdoors falls down the chimney and tries to enter the house. Clothes dryers, furnaces and bathroom/kitchen fans agravate the problem further since they suck air from the home and push it outside. This air needs to be replaced from somewhere…and your chimney is just waiting to supply it. So, if you just open your stove or fireplace damper and light a fire, you may get a surprise."

Your house has negative pressure.

In a very general sense, the best solution is simply fireplace deodorant! The stuff works!
http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/productDetails.aspx?SKU=998033886

 

[remkel]

I had the same problem at my house. The person who installed my liner extended it another 4 feet above the existing chimney and this seems to have solved the problem. Every time i check the draft prior to starting the fire the draft is going into the stove......and no more smell.

 

[pen]

With shoulder season fires I make certain I leave the air open more than I would for a cold weather burn. Also, burn a small hot fire, rather than a med or large load w/ a small amount of air. The more completely the wood is burned (just grey ash, virtually no chunks, firebrick stay white, stove glass stays clear) the less stuff there will be in there that can contribute smells to the house if/when you get a downdraft.

I do have an inline damper and close it when not burning for the summer and in shoulder season. While it doesn't seal 100%, I can't help but believe that when there is a downdraft it must slow it down some. Don't know if it really does a damn thing or not, but I can't see it hurting so I keep doing what has worked.

With my old stove, I'd get a whiff every now and again. I used to put a box of baking soda in it for the summer and it seemed to help. Again, no scientific data to support whether or not it did anything but that's what I did.

Others have reporting having good luck by placing one of their wife's large smelly candles in the stove and lighting the candle off when it smells. They claim it creates just enough heat to get things moving in the right direction again until the wind changes, pressure changes, etc.

pen

 

[pen]

Forgot to add to also use smaller splits (I split my usual winter splits in 1/2 for the shoulder season). And if I'm around as the flames of the fire start to disappear, I open the air control to wide open to burn the coals down as quickly and completely as possible since in the shoulder season I'm not looking to reload on them.

pen

 

[jeffs]

Lots of good suggestions, will start with the simplest ones first (baking soda or chimney deodorant). Thanks all!

So is it that stuff in there that's not burned to ash that's giving the smell? If that's the case, I can just clean it out. I dump all that on my garden dirt, so no danger of it catching anything on fire if there are any embers left.

Hard to open it up at the end when it burns down overnight. That's what happened this time. Had stoked it up the night before, and closed the damper down to low for a long burn. Still had hot coals in the morning. Guess I could start it up again in the morning, get a small, hot fire going, and open it way up, but I don't have much time to fool with it before going to work.

Was looking at all the trees around us last night. They are well above the height of our chimney, if they are blocking the winds enough to diminish the updraft, I would need an extension of about 20' to clear them.

 

[jeffs]

Let me ask another question.

Would an outside air kit solve this issue?

I'm not sure how I would run this– the stove sits below grade (in basement), with a block wall behind it, and a heating duct running horizontally along the top of that. So my outside air pipe would end up being about 12 long, with 3 elbows, to get up to the joists and past the heating duct.

 

[bpm44]

I would think that it would help (an OAK) and certainly not make things worse.

I had asked about trees and topography because often in marginal situations and/or shoulder season burns when draft is not as strong as truly cold weather, downslope winds rolling over tree tops can make things like that happen. Wasn't trying to suggest adding enough pipe to clear the trees...

 

[jeffs]

Got'cha. The trees around us are taller than the chimney, and close enough to have some effect I guess.
Our weather was pretty crappy last weekend too. Cool (40s), and rainy. Some wind at times.
Who knows how all that has played into this.

I know there has been a lot of debate about OAKs on this site. I'm not sure what to think of them.

I was talking with a friend last night who is also a contractor, and burns a Lopi for primary heat in his house. He knows my house, and suggested that my oil furnace may be creating enough neg pressure to be causing my problem. My furnace is also in the basement, in the next room, about 10' away from the woodstove, but on the other side of an insulated wall, with a door (shut) between them. He suggested an OAK to the furnace MIGHT help, so that it isn't drawing air from the surrounding space. That would be much easier to run than an OAK to my stove.

 

[PA Fire Bug]

We have the same problem from time to time especially if the weather is cool and wet. One day last week, our basement smelled like bacon after burning a low fire the day before. Mmmmmm, bacon. The smell went away after a day.

 

[remkel]

Let me ask another question.

Would an outside air kit solve this issue?

I'm not sure how I would run this– the stove sits below grade (in basement), with a block wall behind it, and a heating duct running horizontally along the top of that. So my outside air pipe would end up being about 12 long, with 3 elbows, to get up to the joists and past the heating duct.

Well, just installed an OAK here yesterday- I will let you know the results once I burn the stove- a little warm tonight to light her off.

 

[mhrischuk]

I solved my little puff issue with my Clydesdale insert by starting the fire on top of the splits. What a difference. The hot kindling fire gets the draft going immediately without getting the splits smoking early on. But to tell you the truth, now that it's getting cooler, the draft has improved significantly.

To the OP, if it was mine I would consider a chimney top damper to reduce downdraft when not using the stove. Either that or you're gonna have to clean out the stove during periods of non use.

 

[jeffs]

I solved my little puff issue with my Clydesdale insert by starting the fire on top of the splits. What a difference. The hot kindling fire gets the draft going immediately without getting the splits smoking early on. But to tell you the truth, now that it's getting cooler, the draft has improved significantly.

To the OP, if it was mine I would consider a chimney top damper to reduce downdraft when not using the stove. Either that or you're gonna have to clean out the stove during periods of non use.

On these chimney top dampers, where does the cable come out if your chimney/liner is hooked directly to the pipe and that to the top of your stove? I can see how it would hang down and be accessible if you had a fireplace or insert. But with a liner to a stove, it's all closed in. You don't have a straight line up the flue either.

 

[mhrischuk]

They make ones with outside cables/chains too.

 

[burnout]

This is the most common problem I have run into in my 20 years of business. A typical phone call comes in from a customer saying “I’m trying to light my stove and the whole house is filling up with smokeâ€. Of course, the problem is not with the stove, but with a chimney that has reversed.

Funny, I am having the same problem stated, yet my stove guy with 25+ years experience said today he has NEVER seen this. My stove guy is completely useless. This is the same guy that couldn't diagnose poor draft with 3-90 degree bends in the pipe and only 10 feet tall. I will probably try the candle thing and clean it out really good. Or a combination of these. I do have two partially burned logs in there, probably the culprit, but it shouldn't be coming out of the stove anyway. Thanks for the info guys.

Without Hearth.com, I would have been screwed.