Smoking problen with Consolidated Dutchwest FA224ccl Small

[awfireman]

I recently installed my dads old CD 224ccl small convection woodstove in my house. After trying many different things includeng replacing the 6" stove pipe and extending it 5 feet for better draft I am still getting smoke from the doors (both front and side) when loading. The smoke stops when door is 2-3 inches from being totally closed. The stove has no problem getting to temp. and runs well but smokes no matter how hot the fire is. Although I can open one of the front doors when the stove is at temp., but when I open the other door smoke comes pouring out. The side loading door smokes all the time when open more that 2-3 inches.

Could this be a problem with the flue collar being installed wrong? My dad does not remember if the collar was going straight up or going horizontal attached to an 90' elbow .The back of the stove were the the flue collar attaches is at a 45 angle and the collar can be attached horizontal (so it needs to be connected to a 90 or t ) or vertically (in which the stove will have to be pushed in further to the chimney hole and just connect with to elbow or tee). I have the flue collar going horizontal from the back of the stove about 13 inches then attached to a "t" going straight up through the chimney with 6 stove inch pipe.

Maybe some can help me fix/diagnos this problem?

Thanks - Fireman

 

[BrotherBart]

It has been twenty years since I saw one but every Dutchwest I saw back in the day required an eight inch pipe for exactly that reason.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

have you tried cracking a close by window or door a few minutes before reloading , could be a little negative pressure

 

[Gooserider]

Could be negative pressure as Mike suggested, I'd try the window trick first.

Next might be to set the collar up so that the pipe is vertical - Horizontal (which should have a slight upwards slope BTW) runs are not good, and each 90* bend gives an effective FIVE FOOT reduction in your effective stack height.

I would also make sure that your stack is very clean, as creosote buildup reduces your effective diameter, and that all connector joints are sealed tight so that the ONLY way that chimney can draft is to pull through the firebox. Obviously you also want to be free from other kinks, or restrictions. If there is a damper in the pipe, (not on the stove itself) try removing it, and do anything else you can to clean up the flow through the chimney.

Hopefully those changes will help, because the last resort of going to an 8" pipe gets expensive...

Gooserider

 

[awfireman]

Thanks for the suggestions, have tried them all but still getting smoke. Changng to a 8 inch pipe will help the flow and reduce my smoke problem?? Can anyone track down a owners manual for this stove?I am willing to pay a few dollars for it.

Thanks again,

Fireman

 

[BrotherBart]

Is this smoke only when the cat is engaged or does it happen with the cat in bypass position also? I don't know where you would find a manual but a parts breakdown and available parts can be found here:

http://www.blackswanhome.com/fa224-ccl.html

 

[awfireman]

Hi Brotherbart,

I didnt know there is a cat by-pass on the stove. There is 3 dampers, the main on the upper right side of the stove,one on th siude door and one on the ash pan door. Where would the by-pass be located on this stove? Also, do you think 6 inch pipe is to small for this sotve. I have no problem brining the stove up to temprature just the billowing smoke when I open any of the doors.

Once again I appreciate your help.

Fireman

 

[begreen]

Can you post a few pictures of the stove and flue pipe installation? That will save some guesswork.

You can request a copy of the manual from Vermont Castings by mail.

 

[BrotherBart]

Hi Brotherbart,

I didnt know there is a cat by-pass on the stove. There is 3 dampers, the main on the upper right side of the stove,one on th siude door and one on the ash pan door. Where would the by-pass be located on this stove? Also, do you think 6 inch pipe is to small for this sotve. I have no problem brining the stove up to temprature just the billowing smoke when I open any of the doors.

Once again I appreciate your help.

Fireman

The bypass is a steel plate that you crank open to divert gasses passed the cat during start-up and then you close it to light off the cat once the stove is up to temp. Look at the parts explosion in the link above for location of the bypass.

Member Corie should be along soon. He is the DutchWest Federal Airtight guru around here.

 

[awfireman]

Here are a few pictures of the options for the flue collar. I might have to make several post because of the size of the pictures.The picture with it going horizontally was connected to a 6" inch tee going up to the Chimney. I have not tried the vertical installation yet but getting ready to try it, thats why its taken apart. Will wait until I hear back from some of you.

Thanks again - Fireman

I might have to make several post because of the size of the pictures.

 

[awfireman]

Here are a few more pictures

 

[Todd]

Sounds like you are reloading with the bypass closed and the cat still engaged. I forget to do this a few times with my cat stove and smoke comes billowing out right away. The cat is probably plugged with fly ash since you didn't know about the bypass.

 

[awfireman]

So the main damper is the by-pass as well. Correct me if I am wrong - All the way closed=cat. engaged. All the way open=cat by-pass open. If this is correct I have be operating correctly with the by-pass open and it is still smoking. I think this might have something to do with the flue collar. Hopinfg after veiwing the pictures we find a solution.

 

[begreen]

aw, how tall is the chimney?

 

[awfireman]

The Chimney is probably 18 ft and the stove pipe extends 5 ft beyond the chimney.

 

[begreen]

With 23 ft of pipe, that should draft OK, assuming negative pressure in the house is not an issue. With the pipe not connected can you see if the bypass plate is operating correctly? Is there a clear shot from the firebox to the flue with the bypass open?

 

[awfireman]

Yes, there is a clear shot to the flue with the by-pass open. I have opened the window in the LR but still getting smoke, so its noit negative pressure. Might have to try it with the flue collar going vertical. Maybe this will help??

 

[begreen]

Might help, certainly worth a try. I still would find out from VC if the stove is designed to run with 8" pipe.

edit - FWIW, there is one posted on the Boston craigslist that says it's 6" also:
http://boston.craigslist.org/sob/hsh/453785844.html

 

[seaken]

The 224CCL was designed for a 6" chimney. If the stove is smoking with the damper OPEN you have problems with either the chimney, the house, or the fuel. It will be hard to diagnose over the internet but with patience you will probably figure out which is the culprit.

You mentioned opening a window and subsequently dismissed negative pressure. Bear in mind that the open window trick is not a definitive test to eliminate house pressurization as a problem. It make take a few other tests to completely eliminate house stack effect.

You did not mention explicitly how your fireplace chimney is being used. Do you have a full 6" liner all the way to the top? Did you squeeze the 6" pipe to get it through the damper, or use an otherwise "ovalized" piece? What size was the oval? Is there a block off plate? Insulation? Is the fireplace on an outside wall of the house? Any faces of the FP exposed to the outside?

Are you getting a full bed of red-hot coals? What species of wood? Too wet? Too dry? Split, or full logs?

You can get a manual from VC. If you need help you can PM me and I can get it for you.

Can your dad come over and notice if it is working differently for you than it was for him?

Sean

 

[awfireman]

Sean,

Thanks for responding to my post. Seems like you really know you stuff. I am fairly new to owning a woodstove, except as a kid when ran the stove all winter.

My chimney has 3 sides that are exposed to the outside air, its made of brick. Yes, some of the pipe go squeezed a little going through the old damper frame. The flue collar is oval so I have a 8 inch pipe that is oval to round. Does this affect the draft? I had the flue collat going horizontal for 18 inches or so and was wondering if this is the problem. Is it reccomended that the flue collar go vertically? If you look at the pictures I posted you will see what I mean. I have pics of the flue collar going vertical and horizontal. Which is best? my wood has been seasoning for about 17 months and is probably a litte drier than should be but I am having a cord delivered next week that has been seasoned for about 11 months. The conditions here havent be good for burning (low 50,high 40s at night) and was wondering if that will affect how the stove drafts.

Thanks for your time with this, I appreciate it.

Aaron

 

[seaken]

Yes, ovalized pipe is more restrictive than round pipe. Also, you didn't say if you ran the liner all the way to the top and installed a block-off plate?

If the fireplace is outside the house it is essential that you install a block-off and even better if you use insulated liner. Location in the house will also make a difference relative to house pressurization. You may have to wait until it gets a little colder outside to see better results. But if you don't have the block off plate or a full re-line I would start with that. Insulating the liner would be my next suggestion. In a fireplace the horizontal collar is usually the best, as long as there is some upward rise in the horizontal pipe. Also, make sure to seal the tee cap and the collar connection.

 

[awfireman]

We do have a blocker plate, which is made out of sheet metal. Its pretty filmsy. Is this good enough or should we upgrade? Didnt know that would affect anything (Im new to this). We have 6 " stove pipe running up the chimney and going anout 5 ft above the flue liner. So horizontal is Ok and there is no need to go vertical with the flue collar?

Thanks again,

Aaron

 

[awfireman]

Hi Sean,

Would you recommend going with a flex pipe instead of the standard stove pipe. I just installed crimped 6" stove pipe the whole way but wanted to know if its worth it to replace it with flexpipe.

 

[titan]

awfireman-rigid pipe should provide less restriction to flow than a corrugated flex pipe.

 

[begreen]

Aaron, is it possible to remove the damper? Sometimes they lift up and out. If you can avoid ovalizing the pipe, I think you will see some gains. It would also allow you to put in an insulated liner which may help with the exterior chimney.

To answer your question about the horiz. run, be sure that it is pitched upward at least 1/4 per foot. Put a short level on it after all is in place. If the liner has pushed it down, you'll need to get that right before burning. On my stove with a similar horiz. run this made a big difference.