So confused on clearances!

[avc8130]

I could really use some help trying to figure out clearances. I am looking to replace an existing free-standing fire place with either a Lopi Leyden or a Jotul Oslo. I have been laying out my new floor protection to see how it will change the room. The current fireplace has a slate tile floor that is 48" wide and 36" deep. The "wall" behind the stove is a brick veneer over the cinder block chimney (48" wide).

How close can I place the stove to this "wall"?

For the floor protection, can I install floor tile over the current slate and hardwood floor to meet the larger requirements of either of these stoves?

Thanks for the help!
ac

 

[Pagey]

Each stove should specify what is required for floor protection. Some require only ember protection, but others will specify a minimum R value that MUST be obtained. Carefully read the manual for each. As for clearances, again, each stove's manual will specify the clearance to combustibles (CTCs) for various installs: using single wall connector pipe vs. double wall connector pipe; corner install vs. regular install; clearance to a protected surface vs. a non-protected surface. For example, a stone veneer with 2x4s behind it (assuming there is no 1" air gap between the veneer and the 2x4s) is considered a combustible/unprotected surface. Stone and brick transfer heat very, very well to combustible materials. So find out for sure what is behind your stone, and read each manual carefully and consider if you will use double wall stove pipe or single wall stove pipe.

 

[Renovation]

I could really use some help trying to figure out clearances. I am looking to replace an existing free-standing fire place with either a Lopi Leyden or a Jotul Oslo. I have been laying out my new floor protection to see how it will change the room. The current fireplace has a slate tile floor that is 48" wide and 36" deep. The "wall" behind the stove is a brick veneer over the cinder block chimney (48" wide).

How close can I place the stove to this "wall"?

For the floor protection, can I install floor tile over the current slate and hardwood floor to meet the larger requirements of either of these stoves?

Thanks for the help!
ac

Welcome!

Yes, it's confusing, but straightforward once you know the requirements. I'd start with the websites for those stoves--just google on the stove brand and model. The owners/installation manuals for each specific stove, and often the description page on their websites will have the information you need--overhead diagrams of the stoves with the clearances listed for various orientations and configurations. They will also tell the requirements for the hearth--the area under the stove--from which, with help here, you can figure out what you need to do with the floor.

If your wall has only brick over cinderblock all the way up, with no wood studs or flammable material in it, you can put the stove quite close to it, since it is non-combustible.

Others will be along to help you more and with any luck, some members who can answer your questions from memory can chime in. They might also suggest better stoves for your application, in terms of clearances and ease of use. FWIW, though the Leyden is a fine stove, some say is trickier than some to operate, so you might want to consider a stove that might be easier to run.

Welcome, HTH, and good luck!

 

[ansehnlich1]

I could really use some help trying to figure out clearances. I am looking to replace an existing free-standing fire place with either a Lopi Leyden or a Jotul Oslo. I have been laying out my new floor protection to see how it will change the room. The current fireplace has a slate tile floor that is 48" wide and 36" deep. The "wall" behind the stove is a brick veneer over the cinder block chimney (48" wide).

How close can I place the stove to this "wall"?

For the floor protection, can I install floor tile over the current slate and hardwood floor to meet the larger requirements of either of these stoves?

Thanks for the help!
ac

Pictures always give a better understanding of your plans.

If your rear wall is solid block, with brick veneer, ALL MASONRY, then it can't catch fire and you could go with the minimum clearances without concern. But that wall must be all masonry, no studs, drywall, etc.

Your slate floor is another matter. What are you trying to do? Are you going to lay tile right on top of slate? Are you going to lay durock/cementboard on top of slate, and then tile? I did durock on top of 3/4 inch Advantech subfloor (no screws or nails), laid inside a brick perimeter and mortared edges/seams, then brick on top, and it's solid as well....... brick.

 

[avc8130]

I have attached a pic of what I currently have. The brick is around a concrete block chimney with 2 flues. 1 is for the oil burner and the 2nd is for the fireplace. The current stack is 8" single-wall.

I have dug through the install manuals and here is what I found:
Jotul Oslo
"Floor protection under stove must be constructed of a non-combustible material for protection from radiant heat, sparks, and embers." It does not say anything about specific R value.

Lopi Leyden
"Floor protection must be non-combustible and at least .018" thick."

I was hoping to thinset down tile over my current floor (slate and wood). The tile is non-combustible and over .018" thick.

As for the clearances, once I confirm that the brick is directly on the concrete block (which I am 99% sure is the case) can I put the stove right up against the "wall"? I would like to keep it close so the ember protection doesn't encroach on the room so far.

ac

 

[avc8130]

Well, the decision was made: Jotul Oslo in Blue/Black. I pick it up Saturday.

For the floor protection I am going to shop Lowes/Home Depot for a nice tile. I think I want to try to cut back the wood floor and remove the current slate. Then lay Hardibacker or Cement Board on the subfloor and tile over it. I will finish it off with some nice wood trim.

The $1M question still remains: How close can I put this thing to non-combustible wall?
ac

 

[Renovation]

Well, the decision was made: Jotul Oslo in Blue/Black. I pick it up Saturday.

For the floor protection I am going to shop Lowes/Home Depot for a nice tile. I think I want to try to cut back the wood floor and remove the current slate. Then lay Hardibacker or Cement Board on the subfloor and tile over it. I will finish it off with some nice wood trim.

The $1M question still remains: How close can I put this thing to non-combustible wall?
ac

Wow, that was quick! lol Congrats.

Please look in your manual to see what the hearth requirements are (r-value and size in particular), and make sure your plan meets it.

In terms of clearance, the "clearance to combustibles" spec is intended to keep your walls from burning. You also need to allow enough circulation around your stove and allow the stove to work as intended.

Since your rear wall seems to be noncombustible, the fire danger is moot, but you still want to leave enough clearance to get the heat out of the stove (and into the room, not into your chimney), and let the stove function correctly. I've seen rear clearance specs of 7" for a shielded stove, so that is my WAG of a minimum clearance--though that will pump more heat into your masonry chimney and less into the house, reducing efficiency. The closer you mount your stove to the rear wall, the less efficient it will be. Putting your stove right against the wall could have other unintended consequences.

EDIT: Also consider using double wall stovepipe and two 45 degree fittings instead of one 90, to improve draft and make your stove work as designed.

HTH, and good luck! And thanks for the photo!

 

[jotulguy]

The Oslo has a 6 inch clearance to the rear with a heat shield on it. Its one of the closest I am aware of!

 

[Dakotas Dad]

Well, the decision was made: Jotul Oslo in Blue/Black. I pick it up Saturday.

For the floor protection I am going to shop Lowes/Home Depot for a nice tile. I think I want to try to cut back the wood floor and remove the current slate. Then lay Hardibacker or Cement Board on the subfloor and tile over it. I will finish it off with some nice wood trim.

The $1M question still remains: How close can I put this thing to non-combustible wall?
ac

As close as you want/need if it's non-combustible. The main consideration would be how far out it needs to be to turn the flue, and getting airflow around it to help get usable heat.

 

[avc8130]

Wow, that was quick! lol Congrats.

Please look in your manual to see what the hearth requirements are (r-value and size in particular), and make sure your plan meets it.

In terms of clearance, the "clearance to combustibles" spec is intended to keep your walls from burning. You also need to allow enough circulation around your stove and allow the stove to work as intended.

Since your rear wall seems to be noncombustible, the fire danger is moot, but you still want to leave enough clearance to get the heat out of the stove (and into the room, not into your chimney), and let the stove function correctly. I've seen rear clearance specs of 7" for a shielded stove, so that is my WAG of a minimum clearance--though that will pump more heat into your masonry chimney and less into the house, reducing efficiency. The closer you mount your stove to the rear wall, the less efficient it will be. Putting your stove right against the wall could have other unintended consequences.

EDIT: Also consider using double wall stovepipe and two 45 degree fittings instead of one 90, to improve draft and make your stove work as designed.

HTH, and good luck! And thanks for the photo!

I didn't have much time to make the decision. My dealer just got the blue/black in today and said they usually can't keep them in stock for more than a few days. With the tax credit expiring I had to make a decision quickly. I called around and this dealer had a great price to boot!

The hearth requirements per the manual are very vague. They seem to basically state non-combustible. I think I will be ok with my tile plan, but I will confirm with the dealer.

The reason I am so concerned with the rear clearance is that with the masonry chimney in the room it takes up close to 18" alone. Add the minimum ember protection 16" in front of the stove and the hearth starts encroaching the center of the room VERY quickly.

Ideally I would like to tuck this puppy VERY close to the rear wall. Both sides will be clear for over 5-6'. If convection air flow is a problem, I would rather add the optional blower (that the dealer insists is useless) than move the stove into the center of the room.

45s won't work as the vertical rise is MUCH longer than the horizontal distance. The dealer insists that single wall is appropriate and acceptable for interior use when clearances aren't an issue.

ac

 

[ansehnlich1]

If I see things correctly, your masonry chimney is interior, brick faced, and juts out into the room 18 inches, meaning the rear of the Oslo will be at least 18 inches from the paneling in the picture. If you confirm you have brick directly on block, you can put the stove as close to the brick as you want. I would personally keep it a few inches away as it will allow air to circulate behind the stove.

As for the hearth, when we built ours, we went with 2 inches of durock with 2 inch brick on top just to have a nice r-value should we ever want to change stoves we would hopefully not have to rebuild the hearth.

 

[avc8130]

If I see things correctly, your masonry chimney is interior, brick faced, and juts out into the room 18 inches, meaning the rear of the Oslo will be at least 18 inches from the paneling in the picture. If you confirm you have brick directly on block, you can put the stove as close to the brick as you want. I would personally keep it a few inches away as it will allow air to circulate behind the stove.

As for the hearth, when we built ours, we went with 2 inches of durock with 2 inch brick on top just to have a nice r-value should we ever want to change stoves we would hopefully not have to rebuild the hearth.

That is correct. I went up into the attic and down into the basement to verify. The chimney dimensions in the room match the dimensions in the attic/basement with the addition of the brick directly on the block.

I am going to place the stove away from the brick where it falls "naturally" with the elbow radius in the flue.

I am excited as now I am sure I can build a setup that will work and I will be happy with!
ac

 

[ansehnlich1]

Sounds good, but there ain't nobody here gonna believe you did it without PICS

 

[avc8130]

Sounds good, but there ain't nobody here gonna believe you did it without PICS

Hey man, give me some time to GET the stove LOL.

I actually just got back from Lowes. I picked out the tile I am going to use. I need to call the dealer tomorrow with my piping needs so she can get it all set aside for me. Then I will get the stove Saturday and figure out exactly how I want to place it so I can mark out my hearth.

I'm excited. VERY excited.
ac

 

[Renovation]

Sounds good, but there ain't nobody here gonna believe you did it without PICS

Hey man, give me some time to GET the stove LOL.

I actually just got back from Lowes. I picked out the tile I am going to use. I need to call the dealer tomorrow with my piping needs so she can get it all set aside for me. Then I will get the stove Saturday and figure out exactly how I want to place it so I can mark out my hearth.

I'm excited. VERY excited.
ac

I love it when a plan comes together! (lighting cigar)

Good luck, and post pics to this thread!

 

[firefighterjake]

Random thoughts . . .

Holy cow . . . you move fast once you put your mind to something. Hopefully you have already laid in your wood supply since the best woodstove out there is near useless if you don't have good fuel.

Blue black Oslo . . . oh, oh, oh . . . another person to rub my nose in the fact that I could have waited and got a very fine looking stove. Yes, I'm envious . . . warm right now, but envious.

Floor protection . . . You will have met and exceeded the floor protection requirements for the Oslo as it only needs ember protection. By going with 1/2 inch Durock as a backer board you will actually exceed that requirement . . . which I personally think is a good idea anyway from both the fire safety standpoint and the fact that it will give you a good, stable surface for the tile.

Clearance . . . sounds good . . . although I always like to give myself more distance as a "fudge" factor I can understand if this room is very small . . . personally if I had to do my hearth over I would have actually made it a bit larger since my cats like to sit on it and occasionally I like to sit on the edge . . . plus it makes a nice place to store tools. You may want to doublecheck on the 16 inch requirement though . . . some states and municipalities now require 18 inches.

Skip the blower . . . my own dealer told me most folks do not order the Oslo with the blower and are quite happy . . . but he added that should I want to put a blower on it in the future it is a relatively easy installation. Save the money and use the "fan trick" to distribute the heat throughout the house.

Good luck with the hearth building.

 

[avc8130]

Random thoughts . . .

Holy cow . . . you move fast once you put your mind to something. Hopefully you have already laid in your wood supply since the best woodstove out there is near useless if you don't have good fuel.

Blue black Oslo . . . oh, oh, oh . . . another person to rub my nose in the fact that I could have waited and got a very fine looking stove. Yes, I'm envious . . . warm right now, but envious.

Floor protection . . . You will have met and exceeded the floor protection requirements for the Oslo as it only needs ember protection. By going with 1/2 inch Durock as a backer board you will actually exceed that requirement . . . which I personally think is a good idea anyway from both the fire safety standpoint and the fact that it will give you a good, stable surface for the tile.

Clearance . . . sounds good . . . although I always like to give myself more distance as a "fudge" factor I can understand if this room is very small . . . personally if I had to do my hearth over I would have actually made it a bit larger since my cats like to sit on it and occasionally I like to sit on the edge . . . plus it makes a nice place to store tools. You may want to doublecheck on the 16 inch requirement though . . . some states and municipalities now require 18 inches.

Skip the blower . . . my own dealer told me most folks do not order the Oslo with the blower and are quite happy . . . but he added that should I want to put a blower on it in the future it is a relatively easy installation. Save the money and use the "fan trick" to distribute the heat throughout the house.

Good luck with the hearth building.

Honestly I have NO wood right now. LOL I will be shopping around for wood with a moisture meter in hand to get me going this winter. This spring I will be going nuts clearing up dead wood on my property and splitting/stacking for NEXT winter hopefully. I understand the need for good wood.

Frankly the blue/black sold the stove. I was torn between a few different stoves but this finish sold me.

I am going with the backerboard solely so the tile has a strong base to support this monster stove. I am sure I won't regret it.

I plan to get the stove Saturday along with the piping. I am going to set it up and layout the hearth exactly how I like it and THEN cut my current floor out. This will let me get everything just right to meet clearances. I do plan on making the hearth wide enough to utilize the side load door.

My dealer said the same thing. They told me night to try to make a radiant stove convect. I plan on using a box fan on low at the end of my hallway/bedroom door to move air through the house.

I am SO excited. I promise to keep pics coming.
ac