Soapstone stoves take longer times to heat up???

[Backwoods Savage]

We've been basking in summer temperatures this week but this morning it is back to reality. It is cold both inside and out! So...I started the stove this morning again after being out for 4 days.

When I struck a match to light the kindling, I looked at the time. When the stove top reaches 250 is when the cat. is engaged. Well, I was just a little late as the temperature reached 280 degrees when I engaged the cat. Total time? 30 minutes exactly. So, maybe I could have reached that temperature a little sooner with a steel or cast stove, but is a few minutes really worth arguing about? Is it an issue at all? I think not!


EDIT: The fire was started with 6 pieces of kindling (soft maple sized about 1" x 1"). When that started, I added 3 small splits of soft maple. That is what is still putting out the heat as this is being written.

 

[raybonz]

We've been basking in summer temperatures this week but this morning it is back to reality. It is cold both inside and out! So...I started the stove this morning again after being out for 4 days.

When I struck a match to light the kindling, I looked at the time. When the stove top reaches 250 is when the cat. is engaged. Well, I was just a little late as the temperature reached 280 degrees when I engaged the cat. Total time? 30 minutes exactly. So, maybe I could have reached that temperature a little sooner with a steel or cast stove, but is a few minutes really worth arguing about? Is it an issue at all? I think not!


EDIT: The fire was started with 6 pieces of kindling (soft maple sized about 1" x 1"). When that started, I added 3 small splits of soft maple. That is what is still putting out the heat as this is being written.

I really like those stoves.. Is it possible to use a blower so the stove works as convection stove? In my home that makes the heat pretty even upstairs and down..

Ray

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Ray, I'm not certain about 2-level homes but we have no trouble getting heat to the end of the house furthest from the stove, which is over 40 feet from the stove.

 

[begreen]

I think it's mostly a matter of mass. A small soapstone stove is going to heat up more quickly than a large one. Most stoves get up to 250 fairly quickly. But how long does it take to get the stove up to 5-600 so that it's putting out a lot of heat? For the Alderlea T6, this can take an hour.

 

[wellbuilt home]

Ive used a VC dutch west stove for years and now i have a new Equinox . I burn 24/7 and i think the soap stone heats the house more even then the old cast iron. If i go to bed with the stove hot when i get home from work at 6pm the next day the stove is still warm . The old cast stove would be dead cold .The EQ has a large window and cast iron around it that gets hot right away . My stove is in the living room and its like sitting next to the sun . My wife wont let me load the stove up until it get in the 20s

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I think it's mostly a matter of mass. A small soapstone stove is going to heat up more quickly than a large one. Most stoves get up to 250 fairly quickly. But how long does it take to get the stove up to 5-600 so that it's putting out a lot of heat? For the Alderlea T6, this can take an hour.

With the Fireview, if you want that stove temperature it doesn't take long. At 250 degrees you engage the cat. and that baby heats up super fast! However, we have yet to reach those temperatures this year! No need to yet. Wait until it gets cold before using that much heat.

The real reason I made this thread is because of all the chatter one hears about the soapstone stoves taking a long time to heat up. Most folks take it all wrong and think, "I don't want one of those because they take too long to heat up!" Well, it just is not so and I wanted to point it out.

 

[begreen]

I wish I could spend a season or two with a Fireview. It sounds like a great stove.

 

[edthedawg]

The real reason I made this thread is because of all the chatter one hears about the soapstone stoves taking a long time to heat up. Most folks take it all wrong and think, "I don't want one of those because they take too long to heat up!" Well, it just is not so and I wanted to point it out.

I definitely can't wait to get my woodstove-fu up to the point where i get to cruise temps within 30m. This weather ain't helping! And it is completely true on the other end - my envious neighbors cannot believe how hot the Heritage will be at 5pm, when we last loaded/stoked and dampered down at 7am.

 

[raybonz]

Ray, I'm not certain about 2-level homes but we have no trouble getting heat to the end of the house furthest from the stove, which is over 40 feet from the stove.

That's pretty impressive Dennis! Does the room the stove resides in get too hot in the process of heating the whole house?

Ray

 

[Bigg_Redd]

We've been basking in summer temperatures this week but this morning it is back to reality. It is cold both inside and out! So...I started the stove this morning again after being out for 4 days.

When I struck a match to light the kindling, I looked at the time. When the stove top reaches 250 is when the cat. is engaged. Well, I was just a little late as the temperature reached 280 degrees when I engaged the cat. Total time? 30 minutes exactly. So, maybe I could have reached that temperature a little sooner with a steel or cast stove, but is a few minutes really worth arguing about? Is it an issue at all? I think not!


EDIT: The fire was started with 6 pieces of kindling (soft maple sized about 1" x 1"). When that started, I added 3 small splits of soft maple. That is what is still putting out the heat as this is being written.

Do you like your stove? Are you happy with the warm up time? Seems like you do and are so who gives a rats @$$ if someone (who probably doesn't own one) thinks otherwise.

 

[Martin Strand III]

I think it's mostly a matter of mass....

Actually, it's a matter of THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY.

"The important properties of soapstone are its chemical inertness, high dielectric strength, high thermal conductivity, low electrical conductivity and Oil & Grease absorption."
--http://www.golchagroup.com/golcha_soapstone.htm


Soapstone (steatite) is a magnesium silicate that was formed under great pressure and intense heat millions of years ago. There is nothing quite like it. It possesses extraordinary heat retention and transfer properties. Unlike other natural stones such as granite and marble which can also store and radiate heat, soapstone has such an unusually stable composition that it can withstand direct flames indefinitely and be subjected to great fluctuation in temperature with little expansion or contraction.

MATERIAL                        THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY W/mK  (Btu-in/hr-ft-F)

Cast Iron                                    75 (520)
Soapstone                                    6 - 7 (42 - 48)
Granite                                    about 3 (20.8)
Face brick                                         1.29 (9)
Firebrick, Clay (ASTMC62)                  0.95 (6.6)

You may be able to tell from the above data, soapstone has about 1/10th the conductivity of cast iron and about 2 - 7 times more conductivity than other natural stone or masonry. These properties put it in a nice spot for being a good material for use in wood fired heaters; not too long to wait for the heat on cold start up, can withstand overfiring/high heat, holds heat pretty well, nice esthetics, easy to work with in mfg, etc.

On the downside, it's pricey. Check out the $$$ that go into an all soapstone Tulikivi masonry heater. Or, price out a soapstone counter top sometime.

Aye,
Marty

 

[Todd]

This is how I get my stove up over 500 in 45-60 minutes from a cold start. I use 2 small splits on the bottom and lots of kindling on top and burn on high with bypass damper open. In about 20 minutes I'll have a good coal bed so, I stuff the stove full with small to medium splits, burn on high for about 5 minutes or until the wood is charred good, turn it down to #1 and when the stove reaches 250 engage the cat. The stove temp will climb rapidly and the cat is glowing red hot. I think the secret to a fast start with soapstone is lots of kindling and smallish splits with good gaps between for good combustion air circulation. Some days this is all I need and let her burn out til the next day.

The cold weather is back and I'm burning my stove 24/7 on a 12 hr reload schedule. When I reload the stove is down to 200 with plenty of coals. I rake the coals forward,pack her full of Oak and Locust with the biggest splits in the back, burn on #4 till she catches good, turn it down to #1 and wait til she reaches 250 stove top and engage the cat. This usually takes 10-15 minutes. The stove temp climbs fast and I adjust the air down to it's sweet spot at about 1/2. She will cruise at about 550 or higher for an hour, then gradually drop from there. It's currently 34 outside with a good stiff North wind and snow showers, inside temp downstairs is 77, upstairs is 75. :cheese:

 

[Todd]

I wish I could spend a season or two with a Fireview. It sounds like a great stove.

If you were closer I'd trade ya for a couple months. I sure would like to try out the T-6.

 

[raybonz]

We've been basking in summer temperatures this week but this morning it is back to reality. It is cold both inside and out! So...I started the stove this morning again after being out for 4 days.

When I struck a match to light the kindling, I looked at the time. When the stove top reaches 250 is when the cat. is engaged. Well, I was just a little late as the temperature reached 280 degrees when I engaged the cat. Total time? 30 minutes exactly. So, maybe I could have reached that temperature a little sooner with a steel or cast stove, but is a few minutes really worth arguing about? Is it an issue at all? I think not!


EDIT: The fire was started with 6 pieces of kindling (soft maple sized about 1" x 1"). When that started, I added 3 small splits of soft maple. That is what is still putting out the heat as this is being written.

Hi Dennis,
Does your stove use refractory materials like so many newer stoves? From all I read here that seems to be the weak spot..My old CDW stove has zero refractory materials and has been cheap to keep running.. I too think that cat stoves are more efficient albeit with a longer learning curve but worth the investment in time..

Ray

 

[jpl1nh]

Todd, I agree with everything you've said except...my old Jotul Combifire definately heated faster than my Keystone. While I can get the Keystone to 500 in an hour, it's ony when it gets to 400 or above that point it is really starting to influence the room temp and its all warm from there. With the cast iron combifire, I'd be raising the room temps within 15 minutes. I took my house from 60 to 70 in one hour with -30 windchills one morning with the combifire burning punky poplar. Of course we fed that stove every couple of hours too. No way the soapstone will ever do that. No way, however, I'd trade my Keystone back again. The combination of soapstone and cat is tops. My house used to go from 60 to 75 and back to 60 all the time. The soapstone from now on is basically 24/7 and the house is always 68-73. Long burns, beautiful fire display, soft even heat, its the best. Quickest heat?, nope, but why do I need that?

 

[Highbeam]

"The cold weather is back and I’m burning my stove 24/7 on a 12 hr reload schedule."

This is great! If all stoves, especially the smaller ones like the woodstocks, were able to run like this then you would see a lot more folks burning wood. My stove is the same size but needs to be reloaded on 6-8 hour intervals to prevent starting from scratch. That wood is not being wasted though. I am also making more heat on the low setting. I just can't turn it down as low as you cat guys, yes, I am jealous of the low setting and long burn times.

My soapstone stove can be to 300 in a half hour too. I've got to think that the same fire in a steel stove would have the temp well over 300 meaning that it is possible to run these things up quick but you've got to try pretty hard.

It's a balmy 55 out right now. We're still waiting for winter to really set in. Lots of rain though.

 

[oconnor]

I think it's mostly a matter of mass. A small soapstone stove is going to heat up more quickly than a large one. Most stoves get up to 250 fairly quickly. But how long does it take to get the stove up to 5-600 so that it's putting out a lot of heat? For the Alderlea T6, this can take an hour.

I can get my Kennebec insert up to 700 in 15 mins from first match, but I don't have the exposure that the true "stoves" have, so that doesn't equate as quickly to heat in the room.

Am I warming it up too fast - I'm using 8 or so 2" spruce splits and newspapar knots like in the Govt of Canada video on the top down fire here.

 

[bcnu]

My second season with the Homestead soapstone. I learned alot last year and my wood is dry this time around. Only thing I need is cold weather. I've been burning evenings and overnight just to keep the chill off(and to enjoy the stove) but the outide temps are still pretty decent. And I'm only burning some free poplar so far. I know the cold weather will come and I'll be ready for the 24/7 routine - but this years fire tending(with all it entails) has been so much easier than last.

 

[raybonz]

I think it's mostly a matter of mass. A small soapstone stove is going to heat up more quickly than a large one. Most stoves get up to 250 fairly quickly. But how long does it take to get the stove up to 5-600 so that it's putting out a lot of heat? For the Alderlea T6, this can take an hour.

I can get my Kennebec insert up to 700 in 15 mins from first match, but I don't have the exposure that the true "stoves" have, so that doesn't equate as quickly to heat in the room.

Am I warming it up too fast - I'm using 8 or so 2" spruce splits and newspapar knots like in the Govt of Canada video on the top down fire here.

Thanx for the video link.. Good info for efficient burning.. The way air enters my stove those techniques may not work but I will give it a shot.. I can see where north-south vs east-west would affect the burning unfortunately I can only load east-west and my air enters via the east side..

Ray

 

[bokehman]

Actually, it's a matter of THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY.
Aye,
Marty

Have you got any idea of the "specific heat capacity" of soapstone compared to iron? Iron is around 0.1 BTU/lb/ºF.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Ray, I'm not certain about 2-level homes but we have no trouble getting heat to the end of the house furthest from the stove, which is over 40 feet from the stove.

That's pretty impressive Dennis! Does the room the stove resides in get too hot in the process of heating the whole house?

Ray

Ray, the only time the stove room gets really hot is sometimes in spring or fall when we get the stove going to take the chill off....and put too much wood in or forget to turn a fan on. But then it is a simple matter to even out the heat. During winter, though it is warmer in that room it is not too hot, at least not for us. Maybe it is for our visitors who aren't use to wood heat! lol

Do you like your stove? Are you happy with the warm up time? Seems like you do and are so who gives a rats @$$ if someone (who probably doesn’t own one) thinks otherwise.

Bigg_Redd, you are partially right as it doesn't matter what someone else thinks about my stove. However, some folks do wonder about soapstone stoves and many shy away from them because of that fact of "taking so long to give heat" that I just like to clear up that thought a bit. It helps me none at all, but hopefully will help both consumers and manufacturers.

It is true that I do promote Woodstock. I get nothing in return except good will and a good feeling knowing that I can help. They did everything they could to make our purchase right and to make certain all went well during installation and first burns, etc. This company is run the same as we always tried to do with our customers in the past, so why not give them a good word the same as I would to anyone else? By doing so we also help potential buyers of their stoves.

Hi Dennis,
Does your stove use refractory materials like so many newer stoves? From all I read here that seems to be the weak spot..My old CDW stove has zero refractory materials and has been cheap to keep running.. I too think that cat stoves are more efficient albeit with a longer learning curve but worth the investment in time..
Ray

Yes. And as far as the longer learning curve, it is extremely short! It is really very simple! It has to be or I'd have too hard of a time. lol Example: this morning I put in 3 splits on top of a large bed of coals (last wood was added at 7:30 pm. First this morning was 7:00 am) and had the draft full open for about 5 minutes. The fire was really roaring so I closed the draft 1/2 way. Between 10 and 15 minutes from the first flame is where I engaged the cat and set the draft 1/2 way between zero and one. That is where it will stay and it is toasty warm in here. So, it is not rocket science learning how to use the cat.

 

[Martin Strand III]

Actually, it's a matter of THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY.
Aye,
Marty

Have you got any idea of the "specific heat capacity" of soapstone compared to iron? Iron is around 0.1 BTU/lb/ºF.

The Woodstock Company states that soapstone has twice the heat storage of cast iron and steel, and that enables the stove to not only heat spaces evenly, but to retain its heat like a heat sink long after the fire has cooled.

Aye,
Marty

 

[Todd]

Actually, it's a matter of THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY.
Aye,
Marty

Have you got any idea of the "specific heat capacity" of soapstone compared to iron? Iron is around 0.1 BTU/lb/ºF.

The Woodstock Company states that soapstone has twice the heat storage of cast iron and steel, and that enables the stove to not only heat spaces evenly, but to retain its heat like a heat sink long after the fire has cooled.

Aye,
Marty

From the Woodstock literature,
Heat stored in 300lbs of soapstone with an average temp of 450, with a room temp of 70 is 25,000 BTU's. A 300lb steel or cast iron stove heated to the same would only be able to store about 12,500 BTU's.

 

[Martin Strand III]

Actually, it's a matter of THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY.
Aye,
Marty

Have you got any idea of the "specific heat capacity" of soapstone compared to iron? Iron is around 0.1 BTU/lb/ºF.

The Woodstock Company states that soapstone has twice the heat storage of cast iron and steel, and that enables the stove to not only heat spaces evenly, but to retain its heat like a heat sink long after the fire has cooled.

Aye,
Marty

From the Woodstock literature,
Heat stored in 300lbs of soapstone with an average temp of 450, with a room temp of 70 is 25,000 BTU's. A 300lb steel or cast iron stove heated to the same would only be able to store about 12,500 BTU's.

Yup. 1/2 of 25,000 is 12,500.

Aye,
Marty
Grandma used to say, "No early worm's gonna give me the bird."

 

[bokehman]

Heat stored in 300lbs of soapstone with an average temp of 450, with a room temp of 70 is 25,000 BTU's.

I've read a lot about these staying hot for hours after the fire is out but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. First of all when the fire goes out the stove is not going to have an average temperature of 450. More like 200 if your lucky, which, based on 25000 BTU at 450, would mean the stove at 200 would have about 10,000 BTU stored in it. This is equivalent to just over a pound of wood. Also based on the surface area of the fireview (about 2.4m2) the unit, at that temperature, would radiate about 5000 BTU/h. So the question I have is how does a stove that has 10,000 BTU stored, and is radiating 5000 BTU/h stay hot so long.