Some smoke in stove is normal right?

[SmokeyTheBear]

The damper effects the combustion air flow through the stove, it is on the intake side of the combustion blower.

You never place a restriction in the exhaust side of a pellet roaster.

Get thee to an OAKery and give that poor stove some oxygen laden air, the flame will get brighter, the smoke will be gone, and the heat output will go up.

 

[steveg_nh]

Hey Steve - I believe you are correct, the damper is exhaust flow. The Combustion intake is not restricted with no OAK. I have not re-checked with a mag gauge, I've been using the method linked by bcarton. I opened the damper until I see no more black "wisps"......which seems a little independent of combustion of air trim.

Im still thinking of opening my auger restricter plate up one notch to get more heat out as suggested in another post by flynfrfun here:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/enviro-m55-cast-fs-flame-pattern.92422/

Currently my unit pumps decent heat on 3, but in the single digit cold I have to run it in 5 all of the time. I believe its more the difference of those with adjusted or no restricter plate that we see comments of never having to run above heat setting 3.

I have to run on heat 5 in single digits too. Not as much for flame size but rather for the higher fan speed.

So on the damper I don't see how changing the exhaust air flow (damper) affects combustion. Hmmm

 

[steveg_nh]

The damper effects the combustion air flow through the stove, it is on the intake side of the combustion blower.

You never place a restriction in the exhaust side of a pellet roaster.

Get thee to an OAKery and give that poor stove some oxygen laden air, the flame will get brighter, the smoke will be gone, and the heat output will go up.

Thanks. Makes sense. One thing too I'm noticing is I think I maynot be keeping it clean enough. In this colds days I likely need to clean it every other day vs what I've been doing. With the ash and stuff the air isn't moving well as it piles up in the burn pot.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Thanks. Makes sense. One thing too I'm noticing is I think I maynot be keeping it clean enough. In this colds days I likely need to clean it every other day vs what I've been doing. With the ash and stuff the air isn't moving well as it piles up in the burn pot.

Whenever you attempt to set a flame or dealing with what appears to be a lazy one you need to start with a deep cleaning. 80 percent of all issues with a pellet stove is crud in the works.

 

[Skier76]

Hey Steve - I believe you are correct, the damper is exhaust flow. The Combustion intake is not restricted with no OAK. I have not re-checked with a mag gauge, I've been using the method linked by bcarton. I opened the damper until I see no more black "wisps"......which seems a little independent of combustion of air trim.

Im still thinking of opening my auger restricter plate up one notch to get more heat out as suggested in another post by flynfrfun here:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/enviro-m55-cast-fs-flame-pattern.92422/

Currently my unit pumps decent heat on 3, but in the single digit cold I have to run it in 5 all of the time. I believe its more the difference of those with adjusted or no restricter plate that we see comments of never having to run above heat setting 3.

That's a very interesting read. It's motivating me to get some service rails and adjust my auger cover. I imagine it's going to use more pellets, but the fan setting will be lower.

Steve,
I clean my stove once a week and that seems to be enough. I give it a pretty good cleaning: Full scrape of the burn put and I run through the entire firebox with an old paint brush and my ash vac.

I sometimes notice an ash bridge on the sides of my burnpot when I'm running the stove on 4 or 5 for a long period of time. I just open the stove door and use the tool that came with it to knock the ash into the pan a bit. Wear gloves! It's toasty.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I have to run on heat 5 in single digits too. Not as much for flame size but rather for the higher fan speed.

So on the damper I don't see how changing the exhaust air flow (damper) affects combustion. Hmmm

The damper is on the input side of the combustion blower it changes the volume of air that can pulled through the firebox it makes the straw smaller.or larger.

You want the proper volume of so called air to go with the fuel that is being fed, what everyone thinks is air flow in this case is actually Oxygen which is where an OAK comes in. Indoor air has less per unit volume than outside air.

The fire doesn't need the CO2 in the air, it doesn't need the N in the air, it needs the O2 in the air.

 

[chken]

Thanks. Makes sense. One thing too I'm noticing is I think I maynot be keeping it clean enough. In this colds days I likely need to clean it every other day vs what I've been doing. With the ash and stuff the air isn't moving well as it piles up in the burn pot.

You will know your cleaning regimen needs to be upped if the burn quality/appearance changes from when it's first cleaned. If it's the same, then you're fine.

 

[NYBurner]

Hey Smokey - is there a method to run an oak in an existing chimney without drilling through the chimney mortar?? Obviously this would be shared with the exhaust liner as well.

 

[Skier76]

Hey Smokey - is there a method to run an oak in an existing chimney without drilling through the chimney mortar?? Obviously this would be shared with the exhaust liner as well.

I found this on the site awhile back: http://www.duravent.com/docs/product/PVP_PrairieCap and Increaser_W.pdf

It's a cap that's a combination intake and exhaust. I'm looking into it for next season on my insert. I would need to run a 3" line from the stove to the new cap I believe.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

The common method used if you want to OAK an insert is go up the flue with a second pipe (flue has to have the room and the OAK line usually needs to be up-sized from the piping that just fits over the air intake, The vent run must be high enough to clear the requirements for separation to a powered intake so you don't sucK the spent air from the vent back into the intake system.

Some folks have been known to stick the OAK pipe up the flue and finagle an opening to allow air down around the venting. There can be sealing issues with either method that will allow the weather in and the heat out. Proceed with all due care.

Another method puts the OAK in through the fire place ash dump and out the clean out, requires that you have a clean out outside and not in the basement and that you finally clean that ash dump. Sometimes it isn't too difficult if the clean out is in the basement you just have to get it outside with the proper clearances above ground and snow consideration, this will likely need larger size OAK tubing.

 

[steveg_nh]

The common method used if you want to OAK an insert is go up the flue with a second pipe (flue has to have the room and the OAK line usually needs to be up-sized from the piping that just fits over the air intake, The vent run must be high enough to clear the requirements for separation to a powered intake so you don't sucK the spent air from the vent back into the intake system.

Some folks have been known to stick the OAK pipe up the flue and finagle an opening to allow air down around the venting. There can be sealing issues with either method that will allow the weather in and the heat out. Proceed with all due care.

Another method puts the OAK in through the fire place ash dump and out the clean out, requires that you have a clean out outside and not in the basement and that you finally clean that ash dump. Sometimes it isn't too difficult if the clean out is in the basement you just have to get it outside with the proper clearances above ground and snow consideration, this will likely need larger size OAK tubing.

This would be the option for me if I determine I do need more intake air...

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

This would be the option for me if I determine I do need more intake air...

Remember it is the oxygen you really need not just any air will do..

 

[NYBurner]

I called my stove shop today and asked again about the OAK. Their reason for not suggesting the OAK is that it is drawing in super cold, moist air from outside. The super cold part doesn't seem relevant to me, but the moisture part...is this something to consider?

By they way I did pull my stove and adjust the auger and as far as I can see, the damper is on the intake of the exhaust compressor on the m55 insert.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I called my stove shop today and asked again about the OAK. Their reason for not suggesting the OAK is that it is drawing in super cold, moist air from outside. The super cold part doesn't seem relevant to me, but the moisture part...is this something to consider?

By they way I did pull my stove and adjust the auger and as far as I can see, the damper is on the intake of the exhaust compressor on the m55 insert.

What is the temperature and RH where you are?

I keep hearing this line, I'm about 18 miles as the crow flies from the Atlantic Ocean and here when it is burn season the absolute humidly let alone relative falls off the chart at times.

I really have to take a break from reading the screen. So if I don't respond I'm just resting my eyes (dry eye).

 

[steveg_nh]

I will try to get my videos posted today. Frustrated right now.

 

[batchman]

I have a Maxx-M, which is the same basic design as the M55 and Vistaflame. I was nervous about my 35' chimney so I mounted a mag for full-time monitoring. I have found that the flame is the key, as chken says above the gauge is for range of reason. With different pellets and different feed rates different draft settings are needed for clean burn and correct flame appearance.

And as Smokey says, there is no moisture in outside winter air so I don't understand that oft-repeated comment either. Capping the OAK properly in the off season would have saved me some scaly surface rust (the better to retain ash!) though. And I'm with him on the draft control too but will add another dimension to that concept - it also controls how much heat you pass out of the stove and into your exhaust.

So I try to run the minimum draft needed for a heat setting/pellet/feed-rate combo, to get the flame right and keep as much of the heat in the stove as I can. Small adjustments at a time (and they take a few minutes to "settle in"), and only use the gauge to make sure you're not out in left field.

HTH,
- Jeff

 

[steveg_nh]

I don't get it though. The mag is measuring the exhaust draft though, not intake air, isn't it?

I'll tell you though - I think I have this somewhat figured out...I'm finishing up burning two tons of Cubex Premium hardwood pellets. One thing I noticed about them is how finely cut up they are, I mean the pieces are small. Maybe 1/4" in size on average...I absoultey believe I was in an overfeed situation...I told my wife to use up the Cubex before we moved on to the 3 tons of Geneva Super Premium hardwoods, well, she was in a rush today and put a bag of the Geneva in. HOLY COW. They say different pellets can create drastically different results - no kidding. Flame size is way more reasonable, just kissing the top, and NO SMOKE. Nice clean hot burn...This is what I recalled when I burned just a couple of these Genevas when we first got them.

I'm convinced I should have dialed down the auger feed (in the back) for the Cubex...I have the videos of the Cubex, and now I'll grab one of the Genevas. Night and Day.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

The mag is measuring a pressure difference and that is all.

You use it to set a starting point by tuning the stove to the vent system.

The trim functions are what you use to adjust the system (stove and vent) to the fuel.

Yes, Cubex is a dense pellet and dense pellets need more oxygen or less fuel to burn correctly.

It is very easy to over feed such a pellet if you don't understand that every pellet brand is different and needs to be adjusted for.

 

[CleanFire]

Greetings,

New pellet burner here, so still learning and having fun w/ our stove, but can echo your comments about pellet size and burn - have been burning CleanFire Pacific Blend (Softwood), traded a few bags for Cubex (Hardwood) w/ a co-worker, and thought I broke the stove...

Had to adjust the stove settings to burn the Cubex pellets correctly - lots of heat and low ash, but different stove settings (combustion air & feed rates) were needed.

* I learned (2) things this week: experimenting when it is below 10 degrees outside is probably not a good idea (stick with what is working), and experimenting when the Mrs. is not home to 'observe & comment' is a better idea..

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Hi Steve,

New pellet burner here, so still learning and having fun w/ our stove, but can echo your comments about pellet size and burn - have been burning CleanFire Pacific Blend (Softwood), traded a few bags for Cubex (Hardwood) w/ a co-worker, and thought I broke the stove. ..

Had to adjust the stove settings to burn the Cubex pellets correctly - lots of heat and low ash, but different stove settings were needed.

* I learned (2) things: experimenting when it is below 10 degrees outside is probably not a good idea, and experimenting when the Mrs. not home to observe and comment is a better idea..

Regards,
Robert

Actually having the Mrs. home might be a very good thing.

You never know when you might need someone to at least call for the troops, if you make a real blunder, if not actually pick you up and get you to medical care.

Bear looks at paw.

 

[CleanFire]

Actually having the Mrs. home might be a very good thing.

You never know when you might need someone to at least call for the troops, if you make a real blunder, if not actually pick you up and get you to medical care.

Bear looks at paw.

Excellent point, she keeps me motivated, and safe. That's what is most important.

OT: Your posts have been a huge help in understanding & getting up-and-running quickly, Greets & Thanks to you, LakeGirl, and the other EcoTeck posters & forum members here too numerous to mention.

 

[NYBurner]

Good point on the humidity Smokey....cold air doesnt hold moisture well. Will have the OAK installed as soon as possible.

Also as a note to others with an insert that use a coupler to connect to chimney pipe. Get foil tape and/or hi temp sealant to make sure it is sealed tight. I removed my backplate and noticed a small wisp of smoke leaking during start up (could faintly smell smoke on start up which prompted my looking) and sealed this up with both sealant and foil tape. I get a much better draft now which in turn sucks in more combustion air. I can run less draft open on the slider or up my feed rate now for a hotter burn. Just thought id pass this along.

 

[martinstove]

I also have an M55c insert with the same issue. If I run it on 5, the flame is so tall that it hits the top plate/baffles and curls to the side and even back down - particularly on the left side - resulting in smoke. I haven't run the stove on 5 for a long period of time because of this. Scared to overheat/warp the stove. Even have a little bit of smoke on 4.

Having stove/vent professionally cleaned next week - will see if that makes a difference.

 

[steveg_nh]

So I've been meaning to get back to this. I'm finding it really frustrating. I have videos of all 5 of my flame levels, and you'll see on level 5, as you mention, it's crazy big with smoke. The black soot that cakes on too is crazy. I notice when the stove first starts up on level 5, the flame seems nice but it keeps feeding pellets and then if you look in the burn pot, it just looks like too many, like it's overfeeding and choking the fire from air flow.

I thought maybe my fans or something were really dirty, so I pulled it on the rails last night too, and I found the stove was actually quite clean in the back. Some build up of dust and stuff, but really not bad. I did not clean the vent pipe, but did clean out the exhaust fan opening and the blower fan as best I could (how do you clean that blower fan, it's hard to get at)...

Anyway, flame 5 still got crazy big and smoky within an hr...I also propped open my fireplace clean out a bit to get even more combustion air available and that didn't really help. Anyway, here's the videos. What do you think? Need an OAK? Or do we think it is overfeeding pellets and I should reduce the opening? Thing is, lower flame settings seem fine. I do have the feed trim all the way down right now. I wonder if cutting it down would cause level 1 to actually burn out...

One last thing too, is it normal for the auger rod to wear away in a season? When I cleaned it the other night it really looks like it's way smaller than when new in the middle, like it's disintegrating slowly. Normal or not? And the 1/2 baffle plate seems like it's a bit warped too. See the pic towards the middle...And you can see how thick the ask is. Almost caked on.

Lots going on, sorry.

http://www.sixsyllables.com/webpics/flame1.mp4
http://www.sixsyllables.com/webpics/flame2.mp4
http://www.sixsyllables.com/webpics/flame3.mp4
http://www.sixsyllables.com/webpics/flame4.mp4
http://www.sixsyllables.com/webpics/flame5.mp4

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Looks like you need to both lower the fuel feed and up the air. Read below first however

Now have you cleaned the exhaust system all the way to the outside of the vent termination?

This needs to be clean as well as the stove before attempting to make adjustments. All draft measurements are made on a clean system being fired at level 5 for that stove.

You may discover that you need a fuel gate installed as part of the auger flight cover if the current one can not be moved down to cover more of the exposed auger at the bottom of the hopper.

Mag readings are only of a pressure difference and say absolutely nothing about that critical item you really need to burn those pellets (oxygen).

The old mark one eyeball however can tell when the flame is right.