somerset hardwood pellets not burning completly

[barnyard840x]

recently install my magnum baby countryside stove,unit had issues before i could even start burnin(correctly). my good buddy dexter and i installed it and could not get it to burn correctly,kept having to adjust damper valve,etc. we found that the gasket around the ash pan was leaking by using the dollar bill test,we started to clean the stove out because it was pretty dirty,the dealer i purchased it from told me it was a demo model with ten hours of burn time on it. we quickly found out i had been taken for a ride with this stove. we pulled off the top plate to get better acess to exchanger tubes and found that the gasket around the hopper was completely missing on one side. we also found apoun furthewr inspection that the burn pot was warped. we installed all new gaskets and sealed burn pot the best we could,unit seemed to burn much better after that,yesterday i took the burn pot back to the dealer and argued with them because they had five days before i took delivery of the stove to test fire it and clean it,they obviously never did. so i felt i ATleast deserved a new burn pot from the other stove there that had zero burn time. after argueing with them i finally got my new burn pot. but the main issues imstill having is that the pelletes are not burning completely,they burn to a hard black pellet form but not top ash while the stove is running,which in turn causes the burn pot to start filling up when on setting 3 or 4,setting 1 is not enough heat for the house so i have to at least burn on the 2nd setting but like i said the pellets accumulate and pot starts filling over a period of 3 or 4 hours. im afraid to let stove run 24/7 because of this. the pot has 5 levels of holes in it and sometimes it will build up to the third level from the top. when that happens i empty some of the accumulation out of the pot into the ash pan and keep buring,but i sure theres got to be a way to have those pellets burn better. help PLEASE after stove is shut down they will burn inor ash. im using somerset hardwood pellets thank you for the advice

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Could you and would you please post a picture of your burn pot, in particular bottom side up?

ETA: Just so you know where I'm heading with this, I'm looking for air bypass possibilities. One of which is between the sides of the liner and the under the edges of the burn pot. When checking gaskets etc, did you make certain that the burn pot receptacle was snug to its gasket. Then since the stove was transported full of ash, did you clean out the air intake system from the burn pot receptacle back to the air intake's termination?

 

[DexterDay]

Don't really want to answer for him, we cleaned everything to "New" or as new condition. The one thing I could think of is the combustion blower (because its a 2006 demo) could be a little worn out. I was only over there Sunday. We work together, he is on afternoons, I'm on Days. I can't really help him during the week. From what I've seen and read there is no burn pot gasket, his other one was warped almost 1/4". Therefore he got a new one. Since then, I have not been able to get over there and help him out. The intake is pretty much a straight shot. (Its clean) We cleaned entire exhaust, including blower. Lubed all the motors (convection,combustion, and auger) Sunday we found the bad hopper gasket, and then seen the ash pan gasket was "leaky". He replaced it and the burn pot. I still think its an air issue, but without the major leaks, it seems to be the Combustion blower.
In the manual it states that the burn pot be emptied every 12-24 hrs. This can't be the way this thing burns.
To CWR, can you PM Barnyard840x. I know its not my stove, but we have been good friends for forever, and I hate to see him get taken for a ride. The dealer seemed to be as nice as pie, until they got the unit out the door. Now there true colors are showing. And as far as 10 hrs of demo burning.?? It was black and sooty and burning rich when they shut it down, we only know this because the left majority of the CRUD in it. Ash pan and burn pot were empty, but hopper was still half full of corn. Now I'm just rambling, I can't get over there till Fri night when he gets home from work. So he needs help elsewhere (here) how can he check the motor to see if its failing? We timed the auger, everything there seems right.. House is drafty enough. Sorry buddy, wish I could help more???

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Dexter, usually the receptacle that the burn pot sits in has a gasket where the the receptacle joins the back of the firebox. If the stove has been used the receptacle can have loosened up and transporting the stove might have done a bit of damage to any gasket there (not saying it did just that it is something to check).

I've also seen a lot of burn pots that for whatever reason do not sit in their receptacles properly, sometimes it is a weld that wasn't ground down, sometimes it is because of loose tolerances (these situations can be corrected).

The combustion blower should be checked as well.

The stove should be gone over with a fine toothed comb looking for v shaped ash deposits all along the fuel and exhaust path. Any place that two surfaces join along that path has the potential to cause problems.

Even inside the hooper ( even if it appears to be sealed it is possible for air flow problems to occur), you should pay attention all around the auger flight cover.

Just because one thinks that the air flow always goes one way, it may not always pass the "correct" spot as it should.

Last but not least a couple of minor leaks can equal big headaches.

 

[DexterDay]

The burn pot sits in the liner, it is a metal to metal connection. It does not have a gasket in it. I'm not saying it shouldn't. I just don't know whether it did or didn't have one. Seeing how the other gaskets were missing or worn out, beyond belief. It wouldn't surprise me that it didn't have one originally. Barnyard is at work till midnight. I have not seen the new one, since he got it yesterday. The old one was obviously warped. The front left edge was off by 1/4". All the other places there could be leaks, I sealed up with high temp silicone. He replaced ash pan gasket, I'm guessing he did the dollar bill test on it afterwards. The blower seems to blow the same speed. Which may be normal, but on level 1 and possibly 2, the burn air can keep up with the rate of pellets (Damper WIDE open). But still seems like it should be A LOT more active. Looks like a Bic lighter (Compared to my Quad or Fahrenhiet) on levels above that it just fills up. This takes a couple hrs. But none the less, still filling. He is off work tomorrow, so right after work, I'm goin over and helping to check ANYTHING that is suggested on this thread. I'm sure he will be looking into your suggestions tonight. Hate to see him get "burned" like this. They gave him a full factory warranty, so wouldn't that warrant the coverage of a 5 year old motor than hasn't been ran in years? Or cleaned? Or Lubed? (And was demo'ed for more than 10 hrs)
I do believe the burn pot could seat a little better. On the outside of the 4 corners of pot, there are little gaps. Seems like a design flaw, to just let air in every corner. Hope its something as simple as a burn pot gasket (if it should have one). That would explain the corners. He should be chiming in around midnight. (If he doesn't have to work over). Thanks Smokey, hopefully he posts a pic tonight, I wanna see the new pot in the stove. He sent me a pic yesterday, but its the wrong angle, not the bottom. I will post it in a minute.

 

[ChandlerR]

Hi Dexter and Barnyard! I did get a PM from Barnyard and answered a few of his questions. He added some more info on his post. I think his whole problem is a lack of airflow. The fact that he has unburned pellets in the burn pot tell me he does not have enough airflow through the burn pot. I told him that I run my damper at least 2/3 open and never have to change that setting. The Baby does not have a gasket for the burn pot. It does, however, have to fit snugly in the metal "holder". A warped burn pot would allow air to bypass going up through the holes and you would have a very lazy flame. The Baby draws it's air through what they call the Horseshoe. This is essentially the back wall of the combustion chamber. If you open the bottom ash pan door and look in, you will see that the horseshoe is open on the bottom of each leg. That where the combustion air is pulled into the stove. There is a clean out plug behind the ash pan that should be popped out and checked. The Baby also has a tendency to collect ash on the horizontal top part of the horseshoe. Some people have drilled and tapped a hole for a 1/4 inch pipe plug so that they can clean this out. I have found that by tapping on the back wall and on each legs dislodges a lot of ash.

I would also pull the cover off the combustion air blower and check to make sure the blades are clean and that there isn't a lot of ash on the bottom of the blower housing.

It really angers me that a dealer will do whatever it takes to make a sale, even outright lies, then deliver a product that doesn't perform as they said it would.

Hang in there Barnyard. We'll get you going.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

If he'll post the picture I asked for I may have a suggestion that'll help a lot.

In the meantime the gasket I was referring to is usually between the burn pot receptacle and the firebox (the igniter likely goes through that area as does the air path from the intake) that receptacle is usually bolted on and thus a gasket is needed. I'll pull the manual and take a look later. Usually if the bolts get loose there is a bit of play in the receptacle thus the receptacle can cut and damage the gasket. This creates an air bypass.

I can't check from where I sit, only harp on doing an actual inspection (harp, harp).

He should have a full warranty on that unit if that is how the paper work reads, once again I'm here and don't have access to it.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Hi CWR,

Air flow problem is correct, where and what is the question.

Hunt it down and fix it up is the answer.

A bit of RTV, a little filing, and some gasket material will likely do the job. Just got find'em in order to plug'em.

 

[DexterDay]

Thanks CWR, we have cleaned all those passages, including the horseshoe you speak of. I have an assortment of long brushes that we used on everything. We have removed the cap behind the ash pan and it is clean, you can see straight back to the air damper. Took off the combustion blower plate, scrubbed and scraped all fins, and stuck my brushes into the inside of the stove where I could see them coming out of the right side of the "horseshoe". Gasket was still good, only gasket that was worth anything. (That gasket is very similar to my Fahrenhiet, actually the heat exchanger is the same too) All passages are clean and clear now. I hope he finds another leak or Smokey gives him his idea, once he posts the pic.
Smokey, the pic he sent me is to big to post and I'm retarded when it comes to downsizing them. I downloaded that Picasa program and everything. Gonna try it again. I have been taking the pictures that I post on my phone camera. (I can downsize them on it ) hopefully he will be able to post one tonight. He was motorcycle (atv, dirtbike, motorcycles, etc) for 8 yrs. So he is very mechanically inclined. He has a toolbox that costs more than my Harley. If told what to do, he can and will do it. Heck of guy, again, hate to see him get done like this. Thanks for everyones help. Hate to speak for him, but he is limited to the times he can be on here.

 

[ChandlerR]

Smokey, the holder for the burn pot is welded to the stove. No gasket there. (I just emptied my burn pot and checked to be sure)
Dexter, you guys seemed to have hit all the trouble spots. There is one more thing. This is hard to explain but I'll try. If you open the door and look up toward the heat exchanger tubes, on each corner is a slot. It is very important that these are open fully as this is where some of the air is drawn. I use a wire made from a welding rod to poke around and knock any crusty stuff that might be there. I was also wrong when I said the air is drawn through the horseshoe for combustion, it is actually where most of the combustion air goes on it's way out of the stove (The two slots next to the exchanger tubes carry the rest) I'm assuming the damper has been opened? You know, if everything checks out there is only one other thing....the fuel.

If you guys need any pictures, I can take some and send them. The Baby's manual doesn't have a very good exploded view of the stove like some manufacturers do.

I'm working tomorrow and Thursday but will do what I can.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

CWR,

Yes on the welded receptacle.

I just got through going through the manual, talk about RTV city.

Did I notice gasket material between the combustion blower and the rear of the firebox on page 35.

Barnyard or Dexter,

Does your stove have the draft slide gate by any chance?

Is the OAK installed?

 

[jtakeman]

CWR, Heres a picture of the burnpot recepticle. Hope it helps?

I did some work on a Baby a few seasons back. This fello was trying to burn corn and it wasn't doing to well. If I remember correctly there was a jumper on the board to change modes from pellet to corn. I am just wondering if they have the stove set in corn? But really not sure if that would effect pellet burning though?

 

[ChandlerR]

Jay, my receptacle does not look like that. I have three holes across the back, and two square holes below them. The square holes have metal deflectors on them to angle the air down. Was the one you pictured an older model? Very good question on the corn jumper. I don't remember a jumper tho.

Smokey, yes there is a gasket between the blower and the stove. The air slide gate is optional. Mine does not have it but maybe his does?

Chan

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

The manual talks about a fuel feed jumper on the control board. If the jumper is for corn it is possible that the stove is now providing too much fuel.

 

[DexterDay]

CWR, I seen where the exhaust goes up the horeshoe. I figured you had made the mistake between the 2. The intake is drawn from the middle of that area, the horseshoe is around the outside of it. As far as the slots up top you were talking about, I cleaned the crap out of the exchangers, didnt really look around a lot. (Soot falling everywhere) Def a place to look though. His damper is opened and opened all the way.
J-takeman, thanks for the pic. The corn mode and pellet mode may change something. When we picked it up, it had straight corn in it. Thats what they were burning as a Demo. His does not have an ignitor, but it does have a "rod" that comes in thruogh that hole. There is a pretty large gap that is around the area of this said "rod". There is air coming in from somewhere, like stated above by Smokey, just gotta find it and give a little TLC. Thre are already several things that he can check when he gets home now. Hope he gets it running, one of the main reasons he bought a stove was because of me. His fuel oil is crazy high, and then he comes over to my house. Its 76* in here and its being heated for an entire season, for what he pays for one tank full. Always was sayin "You NEED one of these" Kinda makes me feel bad and also why I want to do as much as I can to help. Hope to get an encouraging message while I'm at work tomorrow.

 

[jtakeman]

Jay, my receptacle does not look like that. I have three holes across the back, and two square holes below them. The square holes have metal deflectors on them to angle the air down. Was the one you pictured an older model? Very good question on the corn jumper. I don't remember a jumper tho.

Smokey, yes there is a gasket between the blower and the stove. The air slide gate is optional. Mine does not have it but maybe his does?

Chan

Yes older model 05.

 

[DexterDay]

CWR, his also has the holes and boxes with defletors on it. His is a 2006 model. And the exhaust damper is an option that his does not have either. Seen that in the manual also. The corn jumper... Would this be something added on that you would see? Or a sequence of buttons pushed to reset?

 

[DexterDay]

CWR, 3 quick questions, Does your Burn Pot have little gaps in the corners when its set in the liner? How long have you burned without cleaning (emptying) the pot? How "active is your flame? Would you say its violent? Or a nice steady burn? Sorry that prob more than 3.

 

[ChandlerR]

CWR, 3 quick questions, Does your Burn Pot have little gaps in the corners when its set in the liner? How long have you burned without cleaning (emptying) the pot? How "active is your flame? Would you say its violent? Or a nice steady burn? Sorry that prob more than 3.

Dexter, I have the little gaps at each corner. I just looked and there is not much of a gap so may not make a difference. I just emptied my pot. Burning Cubex and I emptied it last night. That said, I didn't really need to empty it now but I'll be away all day tomorrow and I don't want to worry about the pot filling up. On the Cubex, I usually go two days. On a cheaper pellet, I may have to empty it once a day. I wait until the ash is almost to the top of the pot. Only the top rows of holes showing.

My flame isn't lazy and it's not a blast furnace. I would say it's active. Certainly not enough to move the pellets around though.

Chan

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

The manual says that a qualified Magnum tech has to change the fuel feed. Sounds like a fun machine. I also noted a lot of RTV used so it'd pay to clean, and add more where ever any exists in the stove and to continue along all of those joints if not fully sealed.

I'd also investigate that gasket on the rear of the fire box, it appears to seal the combustion blower system to the firebox, a bad place to have a bum gasket, large bypass possibilities.

ETA: And again is there an OAK on that unit? The manual is giving hints about lack of OAK and bad burns.

 

[DexterDay]

Thanks CWR, just wanna give him as much info as possible. I know you sent him a PM. But wanna cover all the bases. You are a huge help. The worst part about all of this, is the dealer. There are so many good ones out there, and then there is this couple. And to think, they are my dealer too. For my Fahrenhiet Ugh..

 

[barnyard840x]

thank you guys for all the help,plan to post a picture of that burn pot for you smokey,would you like a pic of it out of the stove and one in the stove?. im going to try and download the service manuel and look into the fuel setting,also look into the gasket behind the burn pot receptical. will hopefully have good news for you guys tomorrow! dexter uses the sommerset pellets,thats the main reason why i purchased them,saw how good they burned in his stove. i did have the auger jam up twice today(monday) sorry i couldnt post sooner did not get out of work til 1:30am and didnt get home until 2:30. we did time the auger though if that may help you CWR it was off for 8.5 seconds and spun for 1.5 seconds,not sure if you know your auger timing but if it is different that may be a tell tale sign that the fuel is set to burn corn and not pellets,well im off to find the manuel now,THANK YOU GUYS very very much,i hope i get it running properly,because every time i have to empty the pot of un-burnt pellets my hearts drops and frustration level for that dealer rises!

 

[DexterDay]

Don't forget the slots up in the top by the heat exchangers. If those are closed, it could be just that. Having those closed off would be just like having half your exhaust plugged. And CWR said there is no burn pot gasket or receptacle gasket (yours is welded). How did your ash pan gasket come out? Is it a lot tighter now? Pass the dollar bill test? The ash pan sealing "screws" are a terrible design.
Oh and CWR that fuel feed timing he stated 1.5 on/8.5 off is for setting. Barnyard,. Be over after work, on my way in now. Too early, Sucks.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

thank you guys for all the help,plan to post a picture of that burn pot for you smokey,would you like a pic of it out of the stove and one in the stove?. im going to try and download the service manuel and look into the fuel setting,also look into the gasket behind the burn pot receptical. will hopefully have good news for you guys tomorrow! dexter uses the sommerset pellets,thats the main reason why i purchased them,saw how good they burned in his stove. i did have the auger jam up twice today(monday) sorry i couldnt post sooner did not get out of work til 1:30am and didnt get home until 2:30. we did time the auger though if that may help you CWR it was off for 8.5 seconds and spun for 1.5 seconds,not sure if you know your auger timing but if it is different that may be a tell tale sign that the fuel is set to burn corn and not pellets,well im off to find the manuel now,THANK YOU GUYS very very much,i hope i get it running properly,because every time i have to empty the pot of un-burnt pellets my hearts drops and frustration level for that dealer rises!

Just out of the receptacle on that picture and upside down.

Are your ash slides all the way in?

 

[barnyard840x]

spoke to the selling dealer today and im going to return this stove and get the BRAND NEW one they have there, obviously i will go over it with a fine toothed comb to make sure every aspect of the stove is in working order before i fire it up, i also specifically requested that they test fire it before i take it home to ensure that that stove is in GOOD working condition. i have to come out of pocket another 100$ for the stove but it will be worth it to me not to have to deal with all these headaches! now if i only had my truck back from the shop, unfortunatly it will not be finished until late next week and my fathers truck is broken down too. but hopefully i will get this bucket of bolts OUT of my house by friday and have a good working stove for the weekend. HOPEFULLY.thank all of you for your kind and good advice,i guess one good thing has come out of all the headaches,i know all about this stove now and will be able to service my NEW one with no trouble at all. Special thanks to Smokey, CWR and T jakeman