St Croix Hastings Air Issue

[mkmh]

Looking for another opinion on an issue that has popped up in the last couple days.
Just did a very thorough end of season clean on it today to try to rule that as the issue, but I am still having trouble.
Behavior is a very lazy flame, and the stove is not able to keep up burning pellets past the number 2 setting. Pellets are spilling out of the burnpot, and the glass is sooting up in a bad way.
Again, today I broke the stove down and cleaned everything including the exhaust. 4 hours later I am back to the same behavior. I have been tweaking the damper to try to give it more air (I do have an OAK), with poor results.

I am thinking at this point it might be gasket failure on the door, ash pan door, and/or hopper?
The stove is in it's 4th season now and all those gaskets are original. They don't look to be in terrible shape, but they do look 4 seasons old I guess.
One other piece of the puzzle is the stove has been occasionally failing on start-up with the vacuum test. According to the manual, this often indicates that the blowers are not able to create a vacuum in the burn chamber...which I suppose could be due to a bad gasket..?
I'm actually pretty frustrated with the stove at this point since it has been so cold, and I really need it to be operating well!

Thoughts?

 

[jxnsdad]

Did you check the ash cleanout rod to make sure that it's all the way pushed in? That was the thing I was talking to you about last week and it was doing the same thing you are describing. Hopefully it's just that.

 

[mkmh]

I wish. Definitely not that.
From the reading i've done I am 90% sure it is either the pan gasket or the door gasket. Hoping the stove can "limp" along on low tonight, but tomorrow AM I will shut down and do the dollar bill test.

 

[ylomnstr]

I wish. Definitely not that.
From the reading i've done I am 90% sure it is either the pan gasket or the door gasket. Hoping the stove can "limp" along on low tonight, but tomorrow AM I will shut down and do the dollar bill test.

Keep us posted. I'm curious as to what you find. And now that I think about it, I remember you said this started after you disconnected the versagrate motor. But now I wonder if it was just coincidence.

Also, what's the dollar bill test?

 

[relxn88]

I don't confess to knowing anything, just giving an opinion and you can take it as that. If there were a serious leak in the gasket, i would guess the stove would shutdown, but if it were a marginial leak and not bad enough to cause a vacumn alarm, but just bad enough to leak extra air in the chamber,than the sensor on the combustion inlet would not sense the need for as much air (because of the extra air getting into the chamber from the leak) and the wrong signal would be sent to the main circuit board so the combustion fan would not crank up like it usually does when the burn pot needs more air. So, the dollar bill test for the gaskets sounds like a good idea. Just my 2cents. Good Luck and let us know what you find.

 

[mkmh]

I wish. Definitely not that.
From the reading i've done I am 90% sure it is either the pan gasket or the door gasket. Hoping the stove can "limp" along on low tonight, but tomorrow AM I will shut down and do the dollar bill test.

Keep us posted. I'm curious as to what you find. And now that I think about it, I remember you said this started after you disconnected the versagrate motor. But now I wonder if it was just coincidence.

Also, what's the dollar bill test?

Off to buy gaskets this AM. I will keep you posted. Yep, this coincided with the versa grate disabling, but I I actually do not think the two things are related now. I checked the versa last night and everything is operating smoothly.
Dollar bill test is basically closing a bill at various places in the door (ash door and stove door). You then attempt to pull the bill out. If it pulls out very easily it indicates an issue with the seal.

 

[mkmh]

I don't confess to knowing anything, just giving an opinion and you can take it as that. If there were a serious leak in the gasket, i would guess the stove would shutdown, but if it were a marginial leak and not bad enough to cause a vacumn alarm, but just bad enough to leak extra air in the chamber,than the sensor on the combustion inlet would not sense the need for as much air (because of the extra air getting into the chamber from the leak) and the wrong signal would be sent to the main circuit board so the combustion fan would not crank up like it usually does when the burn pot needs more air. So, the dollar bill test for the gaskets sounds like a good idea. Just my 2cents. Good Luck and let us know what you find.

Thank you for the input. I really hope it is gaskets, because i'll be lost if this doesn't clear it up.
Very frustrating problem...especially since it it 17 degrees out this AM and this pellet stove is my primary heat source. (not ideal, but it is how we roll)

 

[mkmh]

Well, I replaced the door gasket, and that clearly needed to be done. Over the last year, we had picked up a faint smoke smell on start-up and during low burns. It happened slowly over time to where for whatever reason I was thinking it was normal. That smell is now done, which is obviously a good sign. I'm also now seeing a difference when I change the air intake settings, where as before I replaced the gasket the change to the flame was very minimal.
Unfortunately, the stove still does not seem to be burning very well. The glass sooted up within an hour after start-up, though it does seem like combustion is better.
I may try the ash pan gasket next weekend.
Other than that, I guess it could be that I have a pellet quality issue (though I have used 2 brands). Hopefully it isn't a bad control board, but I guess that is a possibility too.

 

[krooser]

Well, I replaced the door gasket, and that clearly needed to be done. Over the last year, we had picked up a faint smoke smell on start-up and during low burns. It happened slowly over time to where for whatever reason I was thinking it was normal. That smell is now done, which is obviously a good sign. I'm also now seeing a difference when I change the air intake settings, where as before I replaced the gasket the change to the flame was very minimal.
Unfortunately, the stove still does not seem to be burning very well. The glass sooted up within an hour after start-up, though it does seem like combustion is better.
I may try the ash pan gasket next weekend.
Other than that, I guess it could be that I have a pellet quality issue (though I have used 2 brands). Hopefully it isn't a bad control board, but I guess that is a possibility too.

CLEAN YOUR STOVE!!

If the ash pan isn't leaking I can guarantee you have a dirty stove. Same thing happened to my Pepin last year... had the service guy come over with his leaf blower... he sucked out all the crap outta the stove and it fired up perfectly and continues to run great today...

DID I MENTION THAT YOU NEED TO CLEAN YOUR STOVE...?

sorry for shouting.... back to regular programming...

 

[mkmh]

DID I MENTION THAT YOU NEED TO CLEAN YOUR STOVE...?

sorry for shouting.... back to regular programming...

READ MY POST!
Did you even take the time to skim through? That is the first thing I started with...and end of season cleaning.
This has been a really crappy week with the stove. I just cleaned the whole thing again, including a second full exhaust cleaning with small hoses and aquarium tubing. I don't have the replacement gasket for the ash pan, but I imagine i'll do that tomorrow night if this RIDICULOUSLY thorough cleaning doesn't take care of it.

The flame is looking a lot better at this point, but the glass filmed up very quickly.

 

[ylomnstr]

DID I MENTION THAT YOU NEED TO CLEAN YOUR STOVE...?

sorry for shouting.... back to regular programming...

READ MY POST!
Did you even take the time to skim through? That is the first thing I started with...and end of season cleaning.
This has been a really crappy week with the stove. I just cleaned the whole thing again, including a second full exhaust cleaning with small hoses and aquarium tubing. I don't have the replacement gasket for the ash pan, but I imagine i'll do that tomorrow night if this RIDICULOUSLY thorough cleaning doesn't take care of it.

The flame is looking a lot better at this point, but the glass filmed up very quickly.

Can you try a different brand of pellet? Possibly buy a couple of bags of another brand and just give it a try?

 

[mkmh]

I've been alternating between "Quality" pellets from BC and Corinth from northern Maine. Both these brands (and batches) have done pretty well for me in the past. I would almost be happy at this point if the problem was the pellets.

I am getting a ton of smoke from the exhaust too, which is a really bad sign.

 

[ylomnstr]

I've been alternating between "Quality" pellets from BC and Corinth from northern Maine. Both these brands (and batches) have done pretty well for me in the past. I would almost be happy at this point if the problem was the pellets.

I am getting a ton of smoke from the exhaust too, which is a really bad sign.

Well I hope it's a pellet issue also. Just seems odd that all of a sudden you have this problem. Have you been burning the same pellets all year? How many bags have you burned before you started seeing this problem?

 

[mkmh]

It is very strange. I had burned probably 15-20 bags before the issue came up. It seemed to come with the cold weather...which meant setting the stove and 3 and above.
For the first time in 4 plus years with the stove I am really frustrated. The glass is almost black after just a few hours, and the flame start to get "lazier" with each hour that passes. I just toggled down from 3 to 1 to see how it responds. I suppose it could still be the ash pan gasket, but it seems like that has come on somewhat suddenly.

 

[ylomnstr]

It is very strange. I had burned probably 15-20 bags before the issue came up. It seemed to come with the cold weather...which meant setting the stove and 3 and above.
For the first time in 4 plus years with the stove I am really frustrated. The glass is almost black after just a few hours, and the flame start to get "lazier" with each hour that passes. I just toggled down from 3 to 1 to see how it responds. I suppose it could still be the ash pan gasket, but it seems like that has come on somewhat suddenly.

Hmmm, I hate to hear about this because I'm worried that I'll have problems down the road. I hope you figure it out.

 

[BIG WATER]

I had the same symptoms with my St. Croix EXP. I thought I had big problems. I searched the threads until I found the guy with the Leaf Blower.
These are the steps I took. My stove now burns like it is brand new.

1). Completely cleaned the Vent pipe with a 3" brush. From the T up and the outside cover down.

2). Removed the combustion fan. 6 nuts on top of the exhaust manifold. Scraped it out with a coat hanger. Both directions and vacume.

3). Removed fire brick and thoroughly cleaned and vac.

4). Bottle brush and coat hanger to the heat tubes and surrounding areas. Coat hanger behind fire wall to clean out doors.

5). Remove clean out doors and coat hangered, bottle brush and vaccumed.

6). Here comes the big one. With the combustion fan off and the glass door and ash pan closed. Stick the end of the leaf blower in the
exhaust manifold. Stuff a towel around the end. Turn it on for five seconds. Vaccume out the ash traps.

If that does'nt work and your wife does'nt kill you for the soot mess you should be back in business.

Good luck
Big Water

 

[mkmh]

I had the same symptoms with my St. Croix EXP. I thought I had big problems. I searched the threads until I found the guy with the Leaf Blower.
These are the steps I took. My stove now burns like it is brand new.

1). Completely cleaned the Vent pipe with a 3" brush. From the T up and the outside cover down.

2). Removed the combustion fan. 6 nuts on top of the exhaust manifold. Scraped it out with a coat hanger. Both directions and vacume.

3). Removed fire brick and thoroughly cleaned and vac.

4). Bottle brush and coat hanger to the heat tubes and surrounding areas. Coat hanger behind fire wall to clean out doors.

5). Remove clean out doors and coat hangered, bottle brush and vaccumed.

6). Here comes the big one. With the combustion fan off and the glass door and ash pan closed. Stick the end of the leaf blower in the
exhaust manifold. Stuff a towel around the end. Turn it on for five seconds. Vaccume out the ash traps.

If that does'nt work and your wife does'nt kill you for the soot mess you should be back in business.

Good luck
Big Water

I've done all but 4 and 6, but I really went nuts with the vacuum today and feel like I got everything out.
Newest piece of info is that I am now failing the vacuum test altogether. LED #2 blinks continuously. I actually found some suitable rope gasket for the ash pan and just finished replacing it. Still no dice, the stove now won't start.
I won't say that the leaf blower trick wouldn't work, but I am thinking I have something else going on too. Anyone know if a faulty vacuum switch could cause the lazy burn symptoms and subsequent failure to start?

 

[ylomnstr]

Maybe call St. Croix support and see if you can talk to Larry. He's pretty good.

 

[mkmh]

I will do that. I am in over my head for sure.
I did manage to get the stove to start by "tricking" the vacuum switch on start-up. I guess this means the switch is functioning, but it may still be failing periodically.
For sanity's sake I removed all of the corinth pellets from the hopper and started with a fresh bag of "Quality" pellets. I read a few threads about people having real issues with Corinth, so I would like to completely rule that out as the problem before I am 100% off the deep end.

 

[Xena]

[Anyone know if a faulty vacuum switch could cause the lazy burn symptoms and subsequent failure to start?

According to the troubleshooting steps in the manual
a faulty vac switch can cause failure to start.

 

[BIG WATER]

Sorry about my misspelling of Vacuum. If you unplug the stove. That will reset it . Plug it back in. Hit the on switch. It should run for 10 seconds before the vaccum switch kicks it off.

I have seen some threads that say to pull the vacuum hose and suck it out with the shop vac. Do not blow or suck into the vacuum switch itself. it will
wreck the switch. Ash in the vacuum switch hose will not cause your stove to lose correct vacuum. Just the switch not to work and Stove not to start.

If you think the vacuum switch is not functioning correctly you can by pass it by jumping across the two wires that lead to it. This is only a temporary to check the switch. But the stove should start and run with out it.

I do not think the switch is bad because it worked before you replaced the rope around the doors.

My stove ran great the first season. Not so well last year and terrible this year until I did the leaf blower trick.

I read a stove cleaning thread that said " Do not skip any steps " . "Double check all of them "

Be patient. Double check you rope installation for gaps or leaks.

From the shores of Gitchigumee

 

[mkmh]

[Anyone know if a faulty vacuum switch could cause the lazy burn symptoms and subsequent failure to start?

According to the troubleshooting steps in the manual
a faulty vac switch can cause failure to start.

That must be part of it, but there clearly is something else going on too.
The stove has been a gem for 4 years, so i'm not going to get "down" on it...but it did ruin my weekend :down:

 

[ylomnstr]

Sorry about my misspelling of Vacuum. If you unplug the stove. That will reset it . Plug it back in. Hit the on switch. It should run for 10 seconds before the vaccum switch kicks it off.

I have seen some threads that say to pull the vacuum hose and suck it out with the shop vac. Do not blow or suck into the vacuum switch itself. it will
wreck the switch. Ash in the vacuum switch hose will not cause your stove to lose correct vacuum. Just the switch not to work and Stove not to start.

If you think the vacuum switch is not functioning correctly you can by pass it by jumping across the two wires that lead to it. This is only a temporary to check the switch. But the stove should start and run with out it.

I do not think the switch is bad because it worked before you replaced the rope around the doors.

My stove ran great the first season. Not so well last year and terrible this year until I did the leaf blower trick.

I read a stove cleaning thread that said " Do not skip any steps " . "Double check all of them "

Be patient. Double check you rope installation for gaps or leaks.



From the shores of Gitchigumee

Big Water, what stove do you have?

 

[mkmh]

Sorry about my misspelling of Vacuum. If you unplug the stove. That will reset it . Plug it back in. Hit the on switch. It should run for 10 seconds before the vaccum switch kicks it off.

I have seen some threads that say to pull the vacuum hose and suck it out with the shop vac. Do not blow or suck into the vacuum switch itself. it will
wreck the switch. Ash in the vacuum switch hose will not cause your stove to lose correct vacuum. Just the switch not to work and Stove not to start.

If you think the vacuum switch is not functioning correctly you can by pass it by jumping across the two wires that lead to it. This is only a temporary to check the switch. But the stove should start and run with out it.

I do not think the switch is bad because it worked before you replaced the rope around the doors.

My stove ran great the first season. Not so well last year and terrible this year until I did the leaf blower trick.

I read a stove cleaning thread that said " Do not skip any steps " . "Double check all of them "

Be patient. Double check you rope installation for gaps or leaks.

From the shores of Gitchigumee

Thanks BIG WATER. It may be that I need to pull the combustion blower and see what is going on in there. I suppose that is next, then I will check out the seals again.
Any idea if a bad gasket on the hopper door could cause this behavior? Mine has been a mess for a while, so I have a hard time accepting that it may be part of the issue. Having said that, i'm going to replace it.
Any tricks on double checking the gaskets? Pretty difficult to do the dollar bill trick, particularly around the ash pan.

 

[BIG WATER]

St. Croix EXP.

The day I picked it up it did not plug and play. The temperature was - 2 and the wind was 50 mph off the Lake.

I did'nt know squat about it but took took it apart and fixed it myself. The ignition rod did not work so I manually started the fire.
The room fan was stuck and tripped the high limit switch. The high limit switch would not reset so i jumped across it. removed a loose screw from
the room fan and proceeded to heat my house.

What are the chances of all that to a new stove ??

My dealer fixed me up a couple days later with parts and some cheap pellets.

Teens outside tonight. 70 degrees inside. Can't sit near the stove without getting sunburned since I joined this group.