Stacking woes

[clr8ter]

More of a letting off steam than anything, but suggestions welcome.

So, I have a wood stove with a 4 cord a year habit. Meaning I need to have MIN. 8 cord hanging around to be burning 2 year wood. I also have a sort-of unlimited supply of "free" wood, so it's hard to pass up. The thing is, I don't really have a good place to process it or stack it. I had plenty of room, and easy access, but the ground is uneven, and won't support weight in some spots. It's full of roots, small stumps, & rocks. I stack it, concrete blocks sink, and pile falls over. It's to the point that this wood is warming me about 4-5 times.

Also, I can't just heap it on the ground, so it has to be supported on something. My method is; concrete block on ground, 4x8,10 or 12' skid on blocks, stack wood in 2 rows with air in between, (green wood), another skid on top, wood between slats to make spaces smaller, and rubber roofing or something on top to keep water out.

Now, I try to reduce these costs as much as possible; I get the skids from work (free), scrounge the blocks (free), find rubber roofing and maybe blocks on craigslist, (at least not retail), and other assorted materials, (free). Biggest problem is the blocks. Hard to get a hold of for free in the quantity I need them. To date I have probably got around $75 in blocks I was forced to buy because I needed them. Either way it's getting expensive, and it's not like I can afford to spend a ton of money on dirt work to fix the spot.

If I were to ask a question, it would be, How do you guys manage this in the most efficient & inexpensive way possible?

 

[Manitoulin Maples]

what about trying to build some type of more robust wood racks that have a larger footprint? or buying some bags of concrete and making little permanent pads and concrete your blocks right into the poured pads?

 

[Backwoods Savage]

That definitely sounds like a problem. It must be a bit swampy there. A couple of things come to mind. First, in our woods we have a few areas that are really wet and that can pose a problem for lanes. Over the years I have hauled in lots and lots of sand and it works. Makes the ground very solid....except for one problem area that cropped up this past winter. I'll need more sand in there so will tend to that this summer.Fortunately we live on yellow sand so I can just get a trailer load every now and then when I feel up to it. But one of the big things I've learned is to level the sand as soon as I dump it. Not really sure why but if we do this it tends to be more solid.

Another thing that should work is if you can get a load of small stone, even like you would put in a drain field. Or crushed limestone or even gravel. That would give you a much better base. Another thing I would definitely consider is to cut some logs of at least 8" or more diameter. Lay those down to stack the wood on. Or get some logs that are a minimum of 12" diameter to use in place of the blocks. Use plenty of them; like perhaps 2'-3' apart. These still will sink some if you don't use some fill like sand, gravel, stone mix, stone or something else but they may not sink as much as the blocks. also using big rounds in place of blocks should mean you can continue to stack on those until they rot.

I also would not stack the wood over 4' in height and perhaps only 3'.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

what about trying to build some type of more robust wood racks that have a larger footprint? or buying some bags of concrete and making little permanent pads and concrete your blocks right into the poured pads?

Good idea and the bags of concrete are not that expensive either.

 

[midwestcoast]

Ugh, re-stacking is the most demoralizing job to have to do No thank you!
I second the suggestion of a bit of fill to make pads.
If you can find a bunch of concrete chunks from broken-up slabs for free you could use them along with the fill. Check the dumps, ask friends...
They only need to have one flat side.
So you'd find or buy a bit of fill (sand, stone, whatever is cheapest) lay that down only under the stacks. Pack it down good, & lay in the chunks of slab. Lock the chunks together by packing fill or pouring concrete in the spaces between. It would be a lot of work, but cheap & should give a stable pad for the pallets to sit on for years.

 

[gyrfalcon]

More of a letting off steam than anything, but suggestions welcome.

Sympathies. I've got a similar situation, except that my property is halfway up a low ridge and therefore all but the area immediately around the house is on a slope. After several years of trying to build stacks-- and repeatedly having to restack when the ground underneath settled unevenly after rain or just for the pure heck of it-- I've given up and now buy my wood in the fall from a place that kiln-dries it to 20 percent MC. I can stack that close together on pallets on a flat place near my back door. I don't miss that umistakeable extended "whhhuummmmppff" sound of a nice stack falling over that I used to hear all too often.

I'd have to build essentially a series of concrete terraces into my hillside to have enough stable room to keep several years worth of firewood drying. &*@&*^$@ With no woodlot and no skills/equipment/time/strength/will to scrounge, I have to buy my firewood c/s/d anyway, so I'm only spending a few extra bucks a cord and saving a lot of effort and aggravation. But I still feel like a wuss confessing it.

 

[clr8ter]

Wellll......I should have mentioned that a portion of this are belongs to my neighbor, who was kind enough to let me use it, clean it up, cut some trees, ect. I agree TOTALLY with the pouring concrete/fill idea, BUT, I'd be looking at a large cost to do it right. (Which my personality would force me to do.) Fill is not cheap, trucking is even more, and any worthwhile concret must be down 3-4' around here. Don't get me wrong, this is not on a really sloped hillside, just enough. It's not actually swampy, either, just a lot of organic material.

Ugh, re-stacking is the most demoralizing job to have to do No thank you

that umistakeable extended "whhhuummmmppff" sound of a nice stack falling over

Yes it is, Midwestcoast, and wouldn't you know it, it does actually make that sound! Last Thursday I was sitting here at the computer, and heard just that noise, jumped up in time to actually see it fall, (never SEEN it do it before), but not a all the way. Just enough so that the whole pile, about 4 cords, was compromised and had to be re-stacked.

Now, BackwoodsSavage, you think stacking on top of wood on the ground would be OK for 2 or more years? The reason I go with concrete is because the bugs might not get into the firewood as quickly, or to the same extent, (keeping in mind that it's on top of organic material.) Whereas, if it was wood from the ground to the firewood, a direct path......Now, if not, that sounds like the best solution so far. We have PLENTY of pines around that I could use.....

 

[Realstone]

Make a platform attached to three or more trees about a foot or so off the ground, like a low level treehouse.

 

[clr8ter]

LOL, no way in hell I'd ever be able to build something that would handle the weight. I have probably close to 10 cords. And not enough trees.

 

[Realstone]

LOL, no way in hell I'd ever be able to build something that would handle the weight. I have probably close to 10 cords. And not enough trees.

Well, the lack of tree issue (or size of tree) will stop you, but I think that four trees with better than 5" girth with 2x10's screwed in to them could easily handle a couple of tons of dead weight. What does a cord of fresh cut wood weigh? It may be unconventional, but you don't have a conventional problem.

 

[ScotO]

I'd be sinking some 4x4 PT posts onto the ground around every 4' on the low end of the slope and building a deck (find a local demolition company, you can get the wood cheap!) Build a simple 2x8" or 2x10" PT frame (anchor the slope side framework to the posts and sit the high side framework on the ground and anchor your skids to the top of that framework). Very inexpensive and will hold the weight, and last for years.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Wellll......I should have mentioned that a portion of this are belongs to my neighbor, who was kind enough to let me use it, clean it up, cut some trees, ect. I agree TOTALLY with the pouring concrete/fill idea, BUT, I'd be looking at a large cost to do it right. (Which my personality would force me to do.) Fill is not cheap, trucking is even more, and any worthwhile concret must be down 3-4' around here. Don't get me wrong, this is not on a really sloped hillside, just enough. It's not actually swampy, either, just a lot of organic material.

Yes it is, Midwestcoast, and wouldn't you know it, it does actually make that sound! Last Thursday I was sitting here at the computer, and heard just that noise, jumped up in time to actually see it fall, (never SEEN it do it before), but not a all the way. Just enough so that the whole pile, about 4 cords, was compromised and had to be re-stacked.

Now, BackwoodsSavage, you think stacking on top of wood on the ground would be OK for 2 or more years? The reason I go with concrete is because the bugs might not get into the firewood as quickly, or to the same extent, (keeping in mind that it's on top of organic material.) Whereas, if it was wood from the ground to the firewood, a direct path......Now, if not, that sounds like the best solution so far. We have PLENTY of pines around that I could use.....

If they were large logs they very well might keep everything off the ground and the cost could be just moving them in there. A long log, maybe 12" diameter would give lots of spread of the weight over a long stretch and yes, it would sink some but maybe not all that much. I recall many, many times when working in the woods we used to make cordroy roads by laying down 10-12' slabs and then also dumping sawdust on them. Sure, they would sink, especially when a large load of logs went through but it kept the trucks from getting stuck. Only once in a while (rare) would we have to redo one of these roads and, of course, we did this only in the wet swampy areas. It worked.

 

[clr8ter]

Realstone, it takes me 3 + loads in my truck at around 1000-1200 LBS a load to make a cord. So I'm guessing 3000-3600 LBS a cord green. But, like I said, the trees aren't in the right spots, and there aren't enough of them.

Backwoods Savage, I was actually referring to your idea about cutting short round pieces and using them in place of the concrete blocks.

 

[babzog]

You can't just lay pallets directly on the ground and stack on them? To me, pallets are disposable - replace 'em ever few years when they rot out. I burn the remnants in my outdoor firepit and let the kids toast some Martians.

 

[ScotO]

Backwoods Savage, I was actually referring to your idea about cutting short round pieces and using them in place of the concrete blocks.

That's not a bad idea! Just make sure the rounds you use as 'blocks' are a good hardwood that's rot-resistant and bug-resistant (like black walnut or black locust). They would hold up for YEARS.....

 

[clr8ter]

That's not a bad idea! Just make sure the rounds you use as 'blocks' are a good hardwood that's rot-resistant and bug-resistant (like black walnut or black locust). They would hold up for YEARS.....

Ohhh, not sure I could waste good hardwood like that. I also don't have any of those types of species here. It'd have to be pine, one use, (2-3 yrs.), and trash.

You can't just lay pallets directly on the ground and stack on them?

No, they would sink in and the wood would end up on the ground anyway.......the skids I have only have 2 2x4 runners going the length of the skid.

 

[BrotherBart]

On the question of buying blocks. Every time I drop off stuff at our landfill there are concrete blocks galore in the rubble dumping area. And bricks too. I have built three walkways with new bricks from there and a barbeque with blocks from there. Rip-rapped my bridge with blocks from there too.

What I do for stacks on inclines is the end of the pallets flat on the ground at the back end and bricks under the front end.

 

[Stubborn Dutchman]

I use Boxelder as a sacrficial first course in my wood stacks. I have some that have been down for three years now and are still solid enough for another year or two before needing replacement. I think your pine will hold up fairly well. I cut my boxelder logs at about 24" long and it helps with stability.

 

[clr8ter]

So, the real question is; does anyone who stacks on top of wood sitting directly on the ground notice any more insect infestation VS. stacking on top of wood sitting on concrete? Does it matter?

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I have never stacked on concrete. We just cut saplings in the woods and use them to stack the wood on. Usually we cut soft maple and they are good to use maybe 2-3 times before replacing. Cherry or something like that would last longer. Ash would last perhaps the longest but forget that now with the EAB taking the toll on the ash.

 

[gyrfalcon]

So, the real question is; does anyone who stacks on top of wood sitting directly on the ground notice any more insect infestation VS. stacking on top of wood sitting on concrete? Does it matter?

I have done that, and no, haven't seen any big bug infestation. You really only get lots of bugs with wood that's started to rot, in my experience anyway. You may get some free riders in the stuff that's right on the ground, but they're just not interested in the nice clean dry unrotted stuff up above. South of us may be very different, but I just haven't had a problem with that. (the occasional spider, etc., aside, but that's just par for the course with anything that spends time outside.)

My climate is pretty dry for New England, though, and I have almost constant winds because of my location and do (or did!) single-row uncovered stacks in all-day sun, so there's no chance for moisture to build up anywhere and start the rot except on that bottom row directly on the ground.

 

[DBoon]

If it was me, I'd probably do what ScottyOverkill suggested - dig a few post holes, put in 4x4 treated posts, and attach a few rails to those that you could lay pallets on and stock on that. The pallets will last forever instead of 1 or 2 years (they are free yes, but the time to scrounge them adds up) and you'll have a nice level stacking platform without having to permanently add concrete or rocks to the area.

 

[kbrown]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this but you should try a holz hausen. Very small footprint but large
Capacity. This is what I am doing for the same reason ; no more room but a huge supply
That must be cut and stacked.

 

[clr8ter]

Today the wife "helped" me stack some of the firewood. 1st, actually, I had to take a maul and whack yet another threatening-to-fall-over pile more or less straight. Again. At least it's this years wood. I have come to the conclusion that about the only way to handle the problem is to stack in a bigger area, and not nearly as high. This means I will definitely not be able to cover up a lot of the wood. We decided to try to cover it up temporarily when the leaves fall, so they don't get in there, and cover the current year's supply before going to the woodshed.

Anyways, the wife wanted to try another stacking method. I stack on 4 x 8-12" skids, with the wood to the outside, (20" long pcs), with an air space between them. 2 rows per skid. The wife wanted to push them together, no space, to increase stability. We did it, but I have my reservations. Any comments on this?

I really need to get some photos up..........

 

[Hunderliggur]

When putting down any base (sand, gravel, chips, etc.) put an underlayment (driveway cloth) before you put down the base. You will need a lot less material and it will be more stable, even on the softest ground.