Does heating oil go stale? After my next fill up I am planning on going years before another. Will the oil be ok for that long?
stale oil?
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Not a real good idea...#2 oil will attract bacteria like a magnet. Any way you can circulate the oil? Also, use some type of diesel / fuel oil treatment.
BrownianHeatingTech
Minister of Fire
Pook said:
Yup. Sludge is little tiny corpses.
The critters live at the water/oil interface (there's some water in your tank, no matter how hard you try to keep it out).
Minimizing the water is the best way to keep sludge from building up.
Joe
Joe, would it pay to cap off the vent pipe to keep out moisture ? Maybe placing a ball valve in basement on vent line to be opened for oil boiler firing.
Will
BrownianHeatingTech
Minister of Fire
Willman said:
Moisture tends to come in with the fuel, and as air is drawn in when the fuel is extracted (humid outdoor air comes in, then hits the cold tank in the basement and the water condenses).
Best bet is to keep the tank full, eliminating as much of the airspace as possible.
If you are really set on using very little fuel, replacing a large tank with a small tank would be beneficial.
I expect there are a number of code issues and safety hazards with adding a ball valve to the vent. If a truck accidentally got the wrong address (happens more often than you might expect) and started filling, a distracted driver who didn't notice the absence of a whistle could burst your tank, potentially dumping its entire contents plus whatever he pumps before he realizes that there's a problem.
I'd suggest adding some isopropyl alcohol on occasion. You could also get a diesel lawn tractor if you have need of a lawn tractor, thereby giving you a way to use the fuel even if you aren't using it for heating. Diesel and #2 fuel oil are compatible. Just make sure to have a good spin-on filter to make sure you don't contaminate the diesel engine.
Joe
thanks for the replies. I guess I'll go through with my next fill up then. I am currently at about 3/4 tank and by the time I finish my Tarm install I'll probably be a little lower. I was thinking of leaving at that level instead of filling up, and then just keep the oil level low with small infrequent fillups. But I guess it sounds like a better idea to get it filled and leave it full.
Chris S
New Member
My home was changed over to natural gas 30 yrs ago. I pumped 350 gallon of oil from an UG tank into my John Deere through 2 filters. When I got greedy - lowering the fill pipe I sucked up some yuck. before I started I put in Diesel fuel conditioner so the fuel really doesnt go bad, but the bacteria & other " yuck " will get you. If I had a boiler I would rather have burned the oil there, as those parts are cheaper.
C
C
there are some additives out there that "claim" to inhibit bacteria growth in fuel. i dont know if they work or not.
BrownianHeatingTech
Minister of Fire
ugenetoo said:
Some do, some don't.
The primary ingredient in most is isopropyl alcohol. Much cheaper to go to the hardware store and buy a gallon of the stuff, compared to paying for the fancy additive.
I could make a few bucks selling the fancy stuff to my customers, but I just tell them to go buy the alcohol. It will tend to deal with the water, which will prevent the sludge from forming.
The newer tanks with the outlet on the bottom are supposed to deal with the water better than the old side-outlet tanks, since water is heavier than oil and it will get pulled through the system. A modern burner can deal with small quantities of water.
Adding filtration can help, as well. Some commercial or large residential applications - where they still want once-yearly service, but they burn a few thousand gallons each year - will go with two or three-stage filtration. General sediment filter (mesh screen type) first, then a standard General cartridge filter, then a Gar-Ber, Westwood, or other quality spin-on filter. Often these are multiple-appliance installations, and the first two are at the fuel tank(s), while each appliance has its own spin-on filter. The sediment filter catches the majority of the large lumps, and is a cleanable element. The cartridge filter catches the intermediate stuff, and then the spin on filter (or filters) catches the tiny stuff, as well as any felt threads released by the cartridge filter element (especially an issue with Riello delayed oil valves)
Copper ions also help sludge to form. Two-pipe oil lines flush a lot of gallonage through the copper lines (eg, if you have a 3 gph pump and a 1 gph nozzle, 2 gallons run through the return line every hour). Eliminating the two-pipe system eliminates the introduction of copper ions into the oil tank, because there is no return line going back there.
Joe
BrownianHeatingTech
Minister of Fire
free75degrees said:
I usually do a whole gallon. At that dilution rate, it won't even be noticeable to your burner.
One thing to make sure of is to buy the high-grade stuff (ie, 90%+ alcohol), not the low-grade stuff (around 70% alcohol). You don't want to be adding a third of a gallon of water to your tank.
Joe
heaterman
Minister of Fire
Joe, not to derail this thread but I have a question for you.
We had a noticeable uptick in the number of service calls related to crud and sludge in lines and filters this year. Indoor or outdoor tanks didn't seem to matter and on most of the calls there was no water apparent in the tank. We had fuel supply lines running from the tank to the filter that were so plugged up we had to blow them with an air compressor. The only thing that I can point to that would possibly cause this, all other things being the same, would be the introduction of low sulfur fuel in these parts this past winter. Have you noticed any service related issues with the new low sulfur stuff?
We had a noticeable uptick in the number of service calls related to crud and sludge in lines and filters this year. Indoor or outdoor tanks didn't seem to matter and on most of the calls there was no water apparent in the tank. We had fuel supply lines running from the tank to the filter that were so plugged up we had to blow them with an air compressor. The only thing that I can point to that would possibly cause this, all other things being the same, would be the introduction of low sulfur fuel in these parts this past winter. Have you noticed any service related issues with the new low sulfur stuff?
BrownianHeatingTech
Minister of Fire
heaterman said:
My primary focus is installations and upgrades; service is a pretty small portion of my business, so I don't really have any numbers on such things, personally.
From other contractors, I've been hearing about increases in sludge-related calls for the past couple years. I think there are a variety of factors, including lower-quality fuel "slipping through" into the supply line as the refiners struggle to keep final costs down while dealing with increases in the crude price.
Sludge has always seemed to be a big problem in this area. I don't know a heating tech who doesn't carry a CO2 blow-out gun in his service bag, given the number of lines we blow out each season. Usually do a few line replacements each season, as well, since some are just so badly plugged that no safe pressure level will clear them. A part of that is running the tanks down too low, as the next delivery tends to stir the sludge up off the bottom. Another part is the fuel quality, though.
I really don't know if the low sulfur fuel is the at fault, but whatever the suppliers are doing has been increasing the sludge factor for the past couple years.
Now we're getting B5 and B20 thrown into the mix. I fully support the use of biodiesel, but it will throw more variables into the equation, especially since most delivery companies I've talked to are blending it themselves. More handling means more chance for improper mixing or contamination.
Used to be that you chose between gas or oil. Now it's a question of natural gas, LP, #2 oil, #1 oil, B5, B20, B100, wood, pellets, chips, solar, geothermal, heat pump, and combinations of two, three, or four of the above. The equipment all has its own quirks, and so do the individual fuels. Definitely an interesting time to be in the business.
Joe
Is heating oil going to the low sulfur content that new diesel engines burn?
I hadn't heard about increased service calls for fuel oil furnaces, but over the last two years, diesel trucks and tractors have also had an increase in fuel related problems. There are a lot of strong opinions on the issue; lots of them involve blaming the addition of 2% soy biodiesel to the fuel, and/or the introduction of low sulfur fuel. Sulfur does inhibit bacterial growth, so low sulfur fuel is more susceptible to contamination in that regard, but only the newest vehicles require the low sulfur fuel - most existing engines are still being used with the old standard, higher sulfur content fuel.
The cause that makes the most sense to me, is that, since Katrina, refineries have sold more diesel then they can produce, so some of them are (or were) draining their storage tanks right down to sludge at the very bottom of the tanks. I have a family member who had to have the fuel tank on his diesel pickup drained, removed, and steam cleaned, due to algae growth. No problems since then, but he is now a strong opponent of additives to keep bacterial growth out of his tank. This was a 2004 model vehicle, and he doesn't use the low sulfur fuel.
I hadn't heard about increased service calls for fuel oil furnaces, but over the last two years, diesel trucks and tractors have also had an increase in fuel related problems. There are a lot of strong opinions on the issue; lots of them involve blaming the addition of 2% soy biodiesel to the fuel, and/or the introduction of low sulfur fuel. Sulfur does inhibit bacterial growth, so low sulfur fuel is more susceptible to contamination in that regard, but only the newest vehicles require the low sulfur fuel - most existing engines are still being used with the old standard, higher sulfur content fuel.
The cause that makes the most sense to me, is that, since Katrina, refineries have sold more diesel then they can produce, so some of them are (or were) draining their storage tanks right down to sludge at the very bottom of the tanks. I have a family member who had to have the fuel tank on his diesel pickup drained, removed, and steam cleaned, due to algae growth. No problems since then, but he is now a strong opponent of additives to keep bacterial growth out of his tank. This was a 2004 model vehicle, and he doesn't use the low sulfur fuel.
Years ago, # 2 oil would turn into goo at around 28 deg., then about 10-12 yrs. ago jobbers would add their own anti-congealing agent to the trucks. Don't know what it was, but smelled like carbon-tet. An old friend who was a refinery setup man for Exxon always r told me that he didn't understand why circulation methods were not used in residential apps. The oil would "settle out" and separate, according to him. I'm rigging up a motor and an old J-series Sundstrand oil burner pump for a recirc system, will run it once every couple of weeks. Also, a person can top off with Kerosene too, it helps with the congealing problem.
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