starting over

[SophieLake]

I've recently bought a 1940s seasonal mountain/lake house that sat empty for more than 30 years. I may be in over my head.

The house is 30x40. Half the house is a great room with 16 foot ceilings, the other half has bedrooms below and a loft above.

Copper baseboard heat was added at some point. I could fire that up with a propane (or oil) boiler. Or I could start again with a forced hot air and a/c system. There is plenty of access from below. I ask HVAC people and get different opinions. There is also a very large fireplace in the big room that needs to be either rebuilt ($$$) or an insert put in ($). So maybe a pellet stove or wood stove could be employed here if I install a central heating system that can move it thru the bedrooms..

There is no insulation so I'm insulating everything ($$$). I've gotten varied advice here too.

I will only be here on the weekends but need to keep it warm enough during the week not to freeze the pipes.

So I'm starting all over with a fresh slate. I don't have unlimited money. Radiant heat is too expensive. I dont need the most efficient house in town, I'm just looking for a place to take my boys to get some nature.

So I guess I'm asking -- WWYD? I really appreciate any thoughts. Even where to go online to read more ...

 

[sparke]

Well so many options... Is the baseboard installed in every room? Even if it isn't I would much rather go hydronic baseboard then forced hot air. Also it sounds like there is a boiler already installed? If that is the case that can be your back up so the place doesn't freeze up. I think I would go with a wood boiler but keep in mind I have a biased opinion, you are in the boiler forum after all. : )

Tell us more about your likes/dislikes when it comes to wood heat. There are many cheaper options then a wood boiler but at the end of the day IMO hydronic heat delivers the most comfortable/evenly heated living space (excluding radiant floor which you already disqualified).

BUT if your only there on weekends you may want to consider a wood burning appliance in the fireplace. You can most likely use a chimney liner so you wont have to totally redo the masonry. they also make wood inserts that utilizes duct work to disperse the heat better into other areas of the home.

I am assuming you are leaning towards wood or some type of biomass coming to this web site? There are tons of other options when it comes space heating- electric, propane, oil etc... Some of those options would be much cheaper to install...

 

[SophieLake]

Thanks so much for the reply.

There is baseboard in every room, literally lining every room. So much baseboard! I suppose they had to put a lot in because there is so little (zero) insulation. I'd need new covers for sure. But it is zoned nicely, even a zone in the basement.

I need to buy a new boiler/furnace do matter what I do. There is no functioning anything, altho I've been told by a couple of professionals that the copper for the baseboard is probably fine or at least fixable.

I dont like baseboard. I think I say that because I think it's not all that attractive and hard to place furniture, but maybe that's not the best criteria. I would say, it's there, let's do it except I do imagine one day wanting to rent this in the summer months and I think a central a/c system is kind of important. In that loft area in particular there is only one window and if I put a window unit in there it would be nearly dark.

I'm open to a wood system. The only thing is I don't have any knowledge at all in this area -- even where I should post in this forum hung me up for a minute, and I got it wrong, right? -- and there may be weeks that past when I don't get to the house so I need it to work on auto-pilot as much as possible.

Thanks again.

 

[sparke]

Your new furnace or boiler will be your auto pilot. It should not use much fuel when you are not there because I assume you would turn the heat way down... that said, what is your main objective? Is it to move away from fossil fuels altogether? If that is not your main objective my original response would be way different... The majority of people on this web site are here because we like to burn wood or other types of biomass. While we have quite a few professionals here, most discussions are based on biomass burning appliances. If you are seeking an overall opinion on fossil fuel systems, hopefully some one else will chime in... I am not sure how many pros are lurking the boards this time of year... Anyway, if you want central AC it changes the dynamics of the over all system big time. If that is the case, I would think you would be looking at a high efficiency propane, oil, nat gas system utilizing the same ductwork for heating and cooling. I think we are right back where we started so lets start over lol - Are you looking to move away from fossil fuels?

 

[SophieLake]

Well, this is kind of embarrassing but I'm kind of just thinking this through for the this for the first time.

Yes, I'd like to move away from fossil fuels. But I also want to have a central heating system that is pretty foolproof so I keep it very low most of the winter (45-50) and have the house not freeze. I think realistically that means using those baseboards or installing ductwork for a forced hot air using propane. I dont think I can have a wood fired furnace that works for weeks on end without me.

BUT! I would like, if possible, to get the place from that 45-50 degree level to a comfortable level using wood or pellets or something when i'm there. Maybe using that fireplace that needs to be rebuilt anyway. And I 'd like to set up a central heating system that works with that.

Because this house is weekend distance from NYC, I'd like to make sure I set it up for possible future renters while I'm doing this. I think this means putting in central air (or one of those split systems) and making sure that if I have a wood or pellet system, it's super easy to figure out and it heats the entire house including those back bedrooms to a comfortable level.

I really do appreciate these thoughts.

 

[sparke]

If I owned your place I think I would put in a high efficiency propane boiler. This will take care of your DHW and heat via baseboards. They are not terribly expensive. Then I would put in a quality wood stove. Hopefully the hearth can accomadate a stove instead of a fireplace insert. There is nothing like a wood stove to make the place feel homey. Then down the road if you start spending more time there and you want a better heating system you can tie in a wood boiler to your existing set up. If you do need central AC , I like the split units. They eliminate the need to run costly ductwork. I think you are on the right track, this forum and many other HVAC forums can offer many different view points. Good Luck with everything!

 

[RobC]

Propane is nice for the country. Besides propane boiler for heat you could go with tankless on demand for hot water. Have gas for stove and at some point you have the ability to add a propane generator and your good to go if the power is out.
Good luck.
Rob

 

[SolarAndWood]

Ductless splits are a pretty easy cost effective way to do AC especially with a somewhat open floor plan. For heat, an efficient boiler to keep the joint from freezing and a nice stove for ambiance and space heat in the great room.

 

[mikeyny]

One thing to consider if you may not be there during the weekdays is a power failure and a freeze up. I prefer hot water baseboard also but a good hot air system would survive any freeze ups. You could put in a small wood boiler with a coil to run the system on wood and use glycol in the loop. As far a insulation goes, if the walls are finished cellulose is the way to go, but may not be a diy thing for you.

 

[SophieLake]

Thanks so much for all this information. I guess I'm choosing btw the propane baseboard and propane forced hot air. That's helpful to know.

I have heard that the power can go out up there, so I need to be mindful of that too.

About the insulation, there are no walls now. There were a lot of animals making a home out of this place and they made a lost of big nests out of pink fiberglass and wallboard so I had to take all of that out (several large dumpster worth). Still, the insulation people are telling me that if they come in after I put new walls up, they'll blow it in and I'd be better off. Waiting for their bid. Depending on that number, I may try my hand at the pink stuff again!

 

[EJL923]

At first I was going to say axe the baseboard and fire up a nice stove when you arrive on the weekends. Then you added that you wanted to be ready for renters in which most dont want to fiddle with a stove. Forced hot air with bad insulation is going to make it run a lot more than you want to. Baseboard hot water has the chance of freezing if the power goes out. Maybe someone with a lot more knowledge of HVAC than me knows if you can have a closed system with 50/50 glycol water mixture?

 

[RobC]

With the renters in mind.... Keep It Simple..... Lighting anything leaves me unsettled. Even a fireplace. They go home and leave the damper open ? Are their neighbors that can check in after renters leave ?
I got to thinking about the insulation. Spray foam has excellent properties as well as blown in cellulose. There have been some discussions on insulation on this forum because of our hot water storage. They're some guys on this forum that have found companies to spray foam at a reasonable cost, You might want to look into that while your getting prices.
Rob

 

[mikeyny]

if you are going to keep this place for a long time don't waste your time with fiberglass. Have the cellulose blown in. The new methods we use are very thorough. We use a dense pack method so it won't settle. The air infiltration properties of cellulose are far superior to glass. Good luck.
Mike
www.Albanyinsulation.com

 

[Vtgent49]

I live in a second home area, near Stowe, VT. Glycol filled baseboard systems are normal around here, for freeze protection. Simple electronic temp monitors are now available, if you have a land line, it will call you or some local house sitter if you have a long power outage, low temps, or water flowing from broken pipe and/or failed sump pump etc. Upgraded versions can even turn up the heat with a phone call from you when you are driving North on a Fri night or whatever.

AC is extravagant in the mountains/lakes. An opening skylight will help the airflow upstairs. The newest can be opened with a wireless remote control.

 

[shoeboxlen]

if the walls are all out why not just use spray foam insulation it is a little more money but the best insulation from what I hear. If your doing the work yourself I would use the fiberglass quick and easy and not messy to put up. but thats just me