Starting to look like something(w/photos)

[flusher17]

My project is starting to look like something at least. This used to be a Majestic WM42 and is going to house a Jotul Oslo when all is said and done. The stove will sit about one third in the bump-out and two-thirds in the room on the hearth. I have a few questions, though, and appreciate all and any ideas or opinions.

I am using a natural stone veneer from Champlain Stone for the surround and the vertical edge of the hearth. Their installation instructions are vague on how to apply the stone to Durock. Do I need steel mesh and a scratch coat or just stick the stone to the Durock directly?

Inside the bump-out, I was originally going to just stucco, but now I think fire bricks would look much better. Can you use 1 inch thick fire bricks and stick them to Durock like veneer?

Last question. I am looking for ideas for the hearth itself. I was thinking flagstone, but that would be very hard to sweep ash off. Any ideas on a rustic looking hearth stone. The only thing I don't want is tile. The color should be somewhat tan, so bluestone is out. Right now I am kinda leaning toward 24x24 El Dorado stones that are 1.5 inches thick. They would require a lot of cutting to fit the shape of the heath, though.

This forum has been very helpful so far and thank you for the future help I am sure to ask for.

 

[abby4000]

that is going to be beautiful. I love the wood!
Look forward to seeing the finished results.

 

[flusher17]

Thanks. The floors are 4.5 inch hickory. That was last years project and we love them. The walls are white pine 8 inch T/G logs that have aged since it was built in 1986.

 

[Jags]

Scratch coat - YES
Mesh - jury is still out when applying the mortar directly to another cementicous product (durock). Be aware that Durock gen 2 is NOT hearth approved. Although it does appear to be a little late for that. :shut:

 

[flusher17]

Thanks for the reply. I learned about the NextGen Durock just in time. After a frantic search, I was able to get some 5/8 thick old style Durock that had been returned to a local supplier. Only catch, 4x8 sheets. Needed to get a neighbor to help me get them off the truck.

 

[Jags]

Thanks for the reply. I learned about the NextGen Durock just in time. After a frantic search, I was able to get some 5/8 thick old style Durock that had been returned to a local supplier. Only catch, 4x8 sheets. Needed to get a neighbor to help me get them off the truck.

You dun good. Now get to slappin' that rock up. It makes for a VERY sharp hearth. Yeah, baby.

 

[firefighterjake]

Scratch coat - YES
Mesh - jury is still out when applying the mortar directly to another cementicous product (durock). Be aware that Durock gen 2 is NOT hearth approved. Although it does appear to be a little late for that. :shut:

Actually there is some debate on the NextGen Durock Jags . . . I called USG a week or two ago and spoke to a tech guy who said while it was not listed it could be used as a hearth if it was "part of an assembly" . . . he said other than the perlite it is pretty much the same stuff as the old stuff . . . of course this just confused me even more since I thought I remembered you or someone else had spoke to someone there who said it could not be used as a hearth . . . I specifically asked him twice if it could be used for a hearth and his answer was the same both times.

 

[Jags]

Scratch coat - YES
Mesh - jury is still out when applying the mortar directly to another cementicous product (durock). Be aware that Durock gen 2 is NOT hearth approved. Although it does appear to be a little late for that. :shut:

Actually there is some debate on the NextGen Durock Jags . . . I called USG a week or two ago and spoke to a tech guy who said while it was not listed it could be used as a hearth if it was "part of an assembly" . . . he said other than the perlite it is pretty much the same stuff as the old stuff . . . of course this just confused me even more since I thought I remembered you or someone else had spoke to someone there who said it could not be used as a hearth . . . I specifically asked him twice if it could be used for a hearth and his answer was the same both times.

I spoke to one of the engineers that designed it. He VERY specifically stated that it was NOT HEARTH APPROVED. That is the second time I have made the call with the same answer (many months apart to confirm or deny if it had been re-certified). I REALLY wish that it was certified because it is a common and available product for DIY type people. Some of the help desk folks at USG can be - ummm- very agreeable.

Oh and Jake - its the perlite that is the questionable component. It outgasses at temp.

 

[firefighterjake]

Scratch coat - YES
Mesh - jury is still out when applying the mortar directly to another cementicous product (durock). Be aware that Durock gen 2 is NOT hearth approved. Although it does appear to be a little late for that. :shut:

Actually there is some debate on the NextGen Durock Jags . . . I called USG a week or two ago and spoke to a tech guy who said while it was not listed it could be used as a hearth if it was "part of an assembly" . . . he said other than the perlite it is pretty much the same stuff as the old stuff . . . of course this just confused me even more since I thought I remembered you or someone else had spoke to someone there who said it could not be used as a hearth . . . I specifically asked him twice if it could be used for a hearth and his answer was the same both times.

I spoke to one of the engineers that designed it. He VERY specifically stated that it was NOT HEARTH APPROVED. That is the second time I have made the call with the same answer (many months apart to confirm or deny if it had been re-certified). I REALLY wish that it was certified because it is a common and available product for DIY type people. Some of the help desk folks at USG can be - ummm- very agreeable.

Oh and Jake - its the perlite that is the questionable component. It outgasses at temp.

I thought I remembered you writing that you had contacted them . . . however the tech guy I spoke to specifically said it was OK for use as a hearth . . . again only as part of an assembly . . . whatever that means. I then asked him specifically if I could use it to build a hearth for a woodstove and he said yes . . . and when I asked about it being listed he said it was not listed since they did not test it with UL but said it would work the same. When I asked him about temps he said it would be good up to 200 degrees F at which point the mesh would melt.

Not trying to start anything here . . . honestly . . . I just wish USG would get all their people on the same page so when someone calls they can give us a definitive answer.

 

[firefighterjake]

Jags . . . I stand corrected . . . I called USG up again and told them that I was getting mixed messages. Here's the gist of what I learned . . .

The person in the Technical Service Department was not an engineer . . . so I would say you were a lot closer to the source than I was in the first place . . . and this time around.

After explaining to the person that I had mixed messages he said that the NextGen has not been tested for use as walls or flooring in a hearth for solid wood burning appliances . . . something that the other rep also said. However, while he said he thought it would be tested in the future, it can still withstand temps of 200 degree F and expects it to pass (even though he is not an engineer I might add) he said they cannot recommend Durock for use in a hearth at this time since it has not been tested.

When I asked about the perlite and the concerns with it off-gassing he said he was unsure since -- and this is when I learned he was not an engineer -- he admitted that he is not an engineer and would not know anything about this unless testing was done and he had access to the results.

Finally, I asked him point blank whether the NexGen Durock could be used as a hearth and he said that while it is non combustible and good for up to 200 degrees F, since it has not been tested USG cannot say to go ahead and use it in a hearth. He said the only option that USG could recommend is to use the old Durock which was tested by UL . . . to which I replied that it is getting harder to find . . . and then I encouraged him to pass on a message to USG that having some sort of approved cement backer board for use as a hearth would be highly desirable . . . adding that I have had to recommend to the folks at Home Depot and Lowes that the NextGen Durock not be used for hearths as it is not approved.

So long story . . . you were right . . . unfortunately . . . not unfortunately because I was wrong . . . but unfortunately because I would truly have wished Durock to be allowed for such a use . . . but I'm remaining Pollyanna-hopeful and hoping and wishing that USG is able to get this new product tested and listed . . . and that off gassing is not an issue . . . I can always dream right?

 

[Jags]

Jake - I too got mixed messages at first. Then I requested the engineer (I gotz kunectshuns). That gentlemen set me straight.

Hopefully they will go through with the testing and get it certified, but till then I won't suggest the product for hearth application. Out gassing of little Styrofoam beads can't be good. :sick:

 

[flusher17]

I went to a stone yard today and picked out some nice flagstones that are flat and relatively smooth on the top. I will make the hearth out of those.

I am still wondering about fire bricks applied as a veneer. Any help on that would be great?

The whole debate about NextGen Durock makes me wonder why they don't just keep making the old stuff. I wanted to be sure so I tracked down the old style, but I could've done without that hassle.

I will start laying out the hearth tomorrow. I'll try to post pics.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

we thought about some kind of firebrick look, we even had an artist friend who was going to give it an airbrushed "used" look.. but then went with stucco, or really, just colored mortar...

 

[flusher17]

Thanks for responding, DakotasDad. Your photos are very helpful. Our projects look pretty similar. What product did you add to the mortar to get the color? What type of mortar?
Type S? Also, what did you use to seal the corners in the backer board? I have read that Durock makes a mesh tape that you just mud in.

I am leaning towards the stucco look for the inside because the stove is going to block the view of most of it anyway.

Thanks again.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

Thanks for responding, DakotasDad. Your photos are very helpful. Our projects look pretty similar. What product did you add to the mortar to get the color? What type of mortar?
Type S? Also, what did you use to seal the corners in the backer board? I have read that Durock makes a mesh tape that you just mud in.

I am leaning towards the stucco look for the inside because the stove is going to block the view of most of it anyway.

Thanks again.

We used Laticrete brand "Mega Bond". Home depot had a "kit", in a 5 gallon bucket, with two bags of modifier and 1 bag of dry mix, since I could tell we were going to do it in two stages, I just went with that. Not sure if it's "S" or not. seems to have worked fine.

To color it, we went over to the "quickrete" aisle, and it is colorant for concrete, they had 5-6 colors to choose from. The colorant is very permanent, so mix and play with it outside...not in the expensive Kohler enamel sink... unless you want your sink to match your nook.. but then you would just be a copycat...

We didn't bother to tape the seams, since a smooth finished surface was not the plan.

 

[redkev]

Jake - I too got mixed messages at first. Then I requested the engineer (I gotz kunectshuns). That gentlemen set me straight.

Hopefully they will go through with the testing and get it certified, but till then I won't suggest the product for hearth application. Out gassing of little Styrofoam beads can't be good. :sick:

From Wkipedia, a description of Perlite:

Perlite is an amorphous volcanic glass that has a relatively high water content, typically formed by the hydration of obsidian. It occurs naturally and has the unusual property of greatly expanding when heated sufficiently. It is an industrial mineral and a commercial product useful for its light weight after processing.

I see no mention of Styrofoam as a component of Durock nexgen on the USG website

 

[Jags]

Jake - I too got mixed messages at first. Then I requested the engineer (I gotz kunectshuns). That gentlemen set me straight.

Hopefully they will go through with the testing and get it certified, but till then I won't suggest the product for hearth application. Out gassing of little Styrofoam beads can't be good. :sick:

From Wkipedia, a description of Perlite:

Perlite is an amorphous volcanic glass that has a relatively high water content, typically formed by the hydration of obsidian. It occurs naturally and has the unusual property of greatly expanding when heated sufficiently. It is an industrial mineral and a commercial product useful for its light weight after processing.

I see no mention of Styrofoam as a component of Durock nexgen on the USG website

Perlite is also an agrigate that is used to make the sand finish paint. The term is widely, yet often, used incorrectly in the industry. Mentioned or not, I can assure you that the nexgen Durock has styrofoam bead mixed in with the cement. That was the whole purpose of the nexgen - it was to lighten the product. Cement board in its pure form is a very heavy product to work with.

Edit: according to our inventory - I have a couple thousands sheets out in the warehouse. I can probably get a pic if need be.

 

[redkev]

Jake - I too got mixed messages at first. Then I requested the engineer (I gotz kunectshuns). That gentlemen set me straight.

Hopefully they will go through with the testing and get it certified, but till then I won't suggest the product for hearth application. Out gassing of little Styrofoam beads can't be good. :sick:

From Wkipedia, a description of Perlite:

Perlite is an amorphous volcanic glass that has a relatively high water content, typically formed by the hydration of obsidian. It occurs naturally and has the unusual property of greatly expanding when heated sufficiently. It is an industrial mineral and a commercial product useful for its light weight after processing.

I see no mention of Styrofoam as a component of Durock nexgen on the USG website

Perlite is also an agrigate that is used to make the sand finish paint. The term is widely, yet often, used incorrectly in the industry. Mentioned or not, I can assure you that the nexgen Durock has styrofoam bead mixed in with the cement. That was the whole purpose of the nexgen - it was to lighten the product. Cement board in its pure form is a very heavy product to work



Edit: according to our inventory - I have a couple thousands sheets out in the warehouse. I can probably get a pic if need
be.

I sent an inquiry to USG, this is their response. I am happy to send the full response, including contact information from USG in a PM if you would like:

 " I received confirmation from our product manager that Durock does not contain Styrofoam in it, that your supplier has it confused with Permabase which does contain Styrofoam."

 

[Jags]

Jake - I too got mixed messages at first. Then I requested the engineer (I gotz kunectshuns). That gentlemen set me straight.

Hopefully they will go through with the testing and get it certified, but till then I won't suggest the product for hearth application. Out gassing of little Styrofoam beads can't be good. :sick:

From Wkipedia, a description of Perlite:

Perlite is an amorphous volcanic glass that has a relatively high water content, typically formed by the hydration of obsidian. It occurs naturally and has the unusual property of greatly expanding when heated sufficiently. It is an industrial mineral and a commercial product useful for its light weight after processing.

I see no mention of Styrofoam as a component of Durock nexgen on the USG website

Perlite is also an agrigate that is used to make the sand finish paint. The term is widely, yet often, used incorrectly in the industry. Mentioned or not, I can assure you that the nexgen Durock has styrofoam bead mixed in with the cement. That was the whole purpose of the nexgen - it was to lighten the product. Cement board in its pure form is a very heavy product to work



Edit: according to our inventory - I have a couple thousands sheets out in the warehouse. I can probably get a pic if need
be.

I sent an inquiry to USG, this is their response. I am happy to send the full response, including contact information from USG in a PM if you would like:

 " I received confirmation from our product manager that Durock does not contain Styrofoam in it, that your supplier has it confused with Permabase which does contain Styrofoam."

My apologies - Permabase does contain the beads, Durock contains the plastic mesh. It still does not change the fact that Nexgen Durock is not hearth approved, so I really don't know where this discussion is going.

 

[firefighterjake]

Jake - I too got mixed messages at first. Then I requested the engineer (I gotz kunectshuns). That gentlemen set me straight.

Hopefully they will go through with the testing and get it certified, but till then I won't suggest the product for hearth application. Out gassing of little Styrofoam beads can't be good. :sick:

From Wkipedia, a description of Perlite:

Perlite is an amorphous volcanic glass that has a relatively high water content, typically formed by the hydration of obsidian. It occurs naturally and has the unusual property of greatly expanding when heated sufficiently. It is an industrial mineral and a commercial product useful for its light weight after processing.

I see no mention of Styrofoam as a component of Durock nexgen on the USG website

Perlite is also an agrigate that is used to make the sand finish paint. The term is widely, yet often, used incorrectly in the industry. Mentioned or not, I can assure you that the nexgen Durock has styrofoam bead mixed in with the cement. That was the whole purpose of the nexgen - it was to lighten the product. Cement board in its pure form is a very heavy product to work



Edit: according to our inventory - I have a couple thousands sheets out in the warehouse. I can probably get a pic if need
be.

I sent an inquiry to USG, this is their response. I am happy to send the full response, including contact information from USG in a PM if you would like:

 " I received confirmation from our product manager that Durock does not contain Styrofoam in it, that your supplier has it confused with Permabase which does contain Styrofoam."

My apologies - Permabase does contain the beads, Durock contains the plastic mesh. It still does not change the fact that Nexgen Durock is not hearth approved, so I really don't know where this discussion is going.

Not quite sure where it is going either . . . but again BarkEater nice job on the hearth so far . . . on the flip side, not having styrofoam beads is probably a good thing in terms of concerns over out gassing . . . but like you I would feel a lot better if USG got the NextGen stuff approved and listed for hearths if it can be used in such a manner . . . right now they might not be recommending the product (and this is just supposition on my part) because they don't know if it would be OK and since it is not listed as such telling folks to go ahead and use it in this manner would not be smart from a legal standpoint . . . again . . . hoping and praying they at least try to get the UL listed sticker . . . it would make it very, very easy for us to recommend a product for use as hearths if they did so.