Still choosing

[MyOutdoors]

Well I've finished my barn and now am seriously looking at some boilers. If I go with a OWB it would be the EClassic or NEW Sequoya 3400. I really like the Tarm,Bio Max and EKO but I will not be able to fund a water storage. I will be installing whatever unit 150' from the main house using insulated PEX underground. I will also put in a Modine Heater for the Barn as well. The barn is uninsulated with just barn board siding as well as a gravel floor. Talking with the guys at cozy heat, it seemed iffy on putting a gassifer inside the barn which was uninsulated. What do you guys think as far as options? I don't have the time or money this year to section off and insulate a boiler room inside the barn, I do not have any room in the main house for storage either and will not be able to have any type of storage in the near future.

With the 150' run and modine heater, would that keep the gassifier happy (running max efficiency) without storage. I will also be tying into my existing oil burner (4 zones include DHW) with a plate heat exchanger in series which will also be used for my current superstorer and DHW.

I thought the greenwood or Seton would make the best of both worlds, but it seems Greenwood has some reported "lousy" customer service and both are prone to creosote and problematic cleaning, as well as having draft issues?

 

[Nofossil]

The biggest difference between traditional boilers and the gasifiers is that the gasifiers will use MUCH less wood to generate the same amount of heat and they'll do it with virtually no smoke or odor.

Storage can benefit any type of wood boiler, but it's not necessary. If you don't have storage and decide to go with a gasifier, get the smallest one that will meet your needs. That way it won't have to idle as much. Gasifiers can idle OK, but prolonged idling starts to eat away at the efficiency advantage that they have.

If you're installing in an unheated and uninsualted barn, I think you'll want to use antifreeze in whatever boiler you put out there.

 

[flyingcow]

When I priced out an e-classsic, it was =in $$$$'s as a tarm with storage. No brainer for me as I plan to put this an insulated garage. My storage will be in the basement of the house.

 

[leaddog]

I have my eko-80 in a shed that isn't insulated and it isn't a problem. I don't see the need to use anti-freeze as long as you are using it. I do recomend putting some insulation under the boiler and adding some foil/bubble/foil on the top as you lose heat there. I would inclose the boiler into a smaller room rather that just puting it into a very large space just for fire danger and to help heat the intake air.
leaddog

 

[MyOutdoors]

I see you run 1300 gal storage lead dog. I'm wondering how it will run without the storage? As far as E classic pricing, I was quote 10K. Tarm plus storage is over 12k cow, maybe you had the smaller tarm? I would need at least the 60.

 

[flyingcow]

Good point. I have an 85,00 btu weil/mclain oil burner, baseboard heat.I can't remember what the eclassic unit was. i am buying a solo 30 w/storage. BUT keep mind, a gassifier will burn less. Look into a garn, might be the right size. maybe too much money. Go to garn website and check it out. Nice stuff, too big for me. Check out the video. 5100 sq/ft house heated on 10 cord. Many options and just need a good banker to lend the cash out.

 

[jebatty]

...iffy on putting a gassifer inside the barn which was uninsulated.

I don't understand the uncertainty here. If you're heating the barn, locating the gasifier in the barn is perfect, as all escaping heat from the boiler itself, as well as the flue, will go into the heated space. Boiler operation itself will not be impaired. I have my Tarm in an old, very poorly insulated barn, which is my workshop. Except for the space it occupies, I think an inside install is the best.

With the 150’ run and modine heater, would that keep the gassifier happy (running max efficiency) without storage. I will also be tying into my existing oil burner (4 zones include DHW) with a plate heat exchanger in series which will also be used for my current superstorer and DHW.

Seems to me that with 4 zones + the Modine, depending on your heat need, the gasifier is going to be running pretty consistently. Follow the advice on getting the smallest one that meets your heat need. I also have a Modine in my barn, as well as an old 1000 gal LP tank for water storage. I rarely use the Modine, as the tank itself (partially insulated) provides all the heat I need. It's one big radiator.

As to the freezing issue, which I also needed to deal with (but I think northern MN is a little cooler than MA), I elected to use anti-freeze in the boiler with a plate hx to feed the Modine and storage tank. You might want to think through a plumbing arrangement which will give you the protection you need. I made it 11 days last Jan with -30F temps while we were on a vacation without firing the boiler. I brought the tank up to 160 before leaving, and when we got back, there was some ice in the tank and one valve had popped, but everything else was OK.

Although $$$ are not unlimited, adding the LP storage tank need not be a deal breaker. I got my tank for $900 delivered. My total install last Fall was $11,000, including the costs for all of my mistakes (self-install and never did this before).

Keep in mind that the EClassic includes a moderately sized water storage tank (450 gas) as part of the boiler system. I decided on the Tarm with a separate storage tank because 1) easier to move two heavy items than one twice as heavy, 2) wasn't sure how much storage I wanted and keeping storage separate from the Tarm gave me storage options as I gained experience, 3) Tarm has a proven track record and warranty.

Good luck.

 

[Duetech]

Well I've finished my barn and now am seriously looking at some boilers. If I go with a OWB it would be the EClassic or NEW Sequoya 3400. I really like the Tarm,Bio Max and EKO but I will not be able to fund a water storage. I will be installing whatever unit 150' from the main house using insulated PEX underground. I will also put in a Modine Heater for the Barn as well. The barn is uninsulated with just barn board siding as well as a gravel floor. Talking with the guys at cozy heat, it seemed iffy on putting a gassifer inside the barn which was uninsulated. What do you guys think as far as options? I don't have the time or money this year to section off and insulate a boiler room inside the barn, I do not have any room in the main house for storage either and will not be able to have any type of storage in the near future.

With the 150' run and modine heater, would that keep the gassifier happy (running max efficiency) without storage. I will also be tying into my existing oil burner (4 zones include DHW) with a plate heat exchanger in series which will also be used for my current superstorer and DHW.

I thought the greenwood or Seton would make the best of both worlds, but it seems Greenwood has some reported "lousy" customer service and both are prone to creosote and problematic cleaning, as well as having draft issues?

I have an EKO 40 in an uninsulated garage and it got pretty cold here in Michigan for a while last year not as bad as MN but enough -20's. I don't have thermal storage as yet and that forced me to fill the firebox more often (3 x day during the worst, 2 x @ 0-30) during the sub 0. I could have heated my home with an EKO 25 but I bought the 40 for the firebox capacity. If you are intending to heat the barn you will see some idle time but not as much as you would with an insulated barn. You will probably tend to run on again-off again and fill the fire box more frequently but gasifiers use much less wood than an OWB and produce much less smoke for the same job. If you don't intend to use storage right away the larger firebox is elemental for longer term heat output. That means more initial cost up front but fewer baby sitting cold boiler days and back-up heat source initiations ($$). My EKO 40 would run about 10 hrs on a fill. Going by what you've said but not knowing the size of your home and not being an expert or knowing your time schedule for attending chores (ie filling the boiler). I'd suggest the EKO 60 for firebox capacity. If the stove is bigger than what is really necessary just don't fill it so full when doing a burn. Too small a stove would be the greater cost (ie replacement). ...Cave2k

 

[kenkressin]

I just installed an eClassic in Minnesota and it seem prohibitive to add antifreeze for 450 gallons of water. I think I was quoted $1300 for enough RV coolant (that lasts a few years?). Anyway, I installed a $50 temperature sensor with a programmable alarm. I taped the sensor on my return pex line in the basement and mounted the alarm in my kitchen. If the return temp gets below 95F, the thing starts beeping. Hopefully that improves the odds... I also bought a $150 2 cycle generator incase we lose power for an extended period. Now just have to ensure a gallon of fresh gas is always available...

 

[warm in VT]

I have the e-classic and it works well. The e-classic is a gasser and does well on wood. I am burning the same amount as friends with a Tarm. Sounds like it could even be4 a possibility for you to put a CB in your barn and have the best of both worlds? The CB does not require nor should you put glycol in the system!

 

[MyOutdoors]

I ended up going with the Sequoya E3300 OWB, it's a down draft type gassifier OWB. It gives me anywhere from 14-24 hour burn times depending on the temp outside and whether I'm keep the house at 73 degrees. I'm very happy so far with this boiler. I've had to adjust the aquastat a few times to dial it in, but customers service has been just a phone call away. At 1st I was using the 155,000 btu modine full blast and heating the house and I would only get 8-10 hours burn time. I just let the modine circulate now and only turn the fan on when I'm working in the barn.

 

[sweetheat]

well I just thought I'd report my last week with the tarm 40 and 806 gallons of open stss storage in hopes this will influence your purchase. My last fire was Monday night. Here in mid-coast Maine Mondays temps were between 4 and 15 degrees, Tuesday and Wednesday warmed to mid 30s. I went 3.5 days with no fire at all. My tank temps were at a high of 181 Monday. Thursday night I fired the boiler. My tank temp was at 82 degrees. Needless to say I'm a happy camper. Who could ask for better. Less wood, no smoke, burn every other day or more, a no brain-er for anyone concerned about cost and consumption. sweetheat

 

[henfruit]

what do you use 82 degree water for ?????? why let it get that low,takes longer to recover.

 

[sweetheat]

henfruit, this was nofossils recomendation. he trys to get all btu's out of it. seem to come right back up again. sweetheat

 

[flyingcow]

well I just thought I'd report my last week with the tarm 40 and 806 gallons of open stss storage in hopes this will influence your purchase. My last fire was Monday night. Here in mid-coast Maine Mondays temps were between 4 and 15 degrees, Tuesday and Wednesday warmed to mid 30s. I went 3.5 days with no fire at all. My tank temps were at a high of 181 Monday. Thursday night I fired the boiler. My tank temp was at 82 degrees. Needless to say I'm a happy camper. Who could ask for better. Less wood, no smoke, burn every other day or more, a no brain-er for anyone concerned about cost and consumption. sweetheat

Hopefully my Innova 30 w/ 800gals of storage will be installed in a couple of weeks. Just curious, how long did it take to bring your tank up from 82 to 180?

 

[sweetheat]

flyingcow: I started a fire yesterday morning when my tank read 82, tank temp was at 142 when I checked it at 3:00. that afternoon. I re-loaded the chamber and left. I'm in another house down the road from the shop now, but expect it to be around 170 to 180 when I go look. I'll report my temps this afternoon FYI. sweetheat

 

[heaterman]

I just installed an eClassic in Minnesota and it seem prohibitive to add antifreeze for 450 gallons of water. I think I was quoted $1300 for enough RV coolant (that lasts a few years?). Anyway, I installed a $50 temperature sensor with a programmable alarm. I taped the sensor on my return pex line in the basement and mounted the alarm in my kitchen. If the return temp gets below 95F, the thing starts beeping. Hopefully that improves the odds... I also bought a $150 2 cycle generator incase we lose power for an extended period. Now just have to ensure a gallon of fresh gas is always available...

Use of anything other than boiler rated antifreeze will have very detrimental effects on the life of you boiler and other system components. You definitely need to get propylene glycol based product instead of auto grade which is ethylene glycol. No-Burst, Cryo-tek and Rhomar are the products you need to use for anitfreeze.

I'll agree 100% that freeze protecting a large capacity system with glycol is cost prohibitive. There are ways that you can isolate a low volume heating unit from the storage which will allow you place the boiler anywhere and antifreeze it. My humble opinion is that storage, even just a couple hundred gallons should always be in a conditioned space. Some of the new outdoor gasifiers hold 300-500 gallons which is a complete waste. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand the "why not" of storing that much heat outdoors surrounded by only a little mouse eaten fiberglass. Utter nonsense.