Still difficulties gettting 6" brush up chimney

[Jerry_NJ]

I did search the subject and didn't find anything that would help. Indeed, I have received good advice on the forum in the past on the subject of brush cleaning my 6" diameter SS chimney from my Quadrafire 4100 I up my masonry chimney.

I tried first with the heavy duty poly 6" brush and failing to get that over the bend from the top of the Insert to the offset (backward/away) to the straight up chimney. I thus purchased the lighter duty brush hoping that would help make the bend. No, still having trouble. Here's what I noted:
1) the chimney pipe is deformed a bit as it departs the insert, not real round, but bush is flexible.
2) the stainless steel sheet metal screws used to connect the insert out-collar (my name, must be an official name for that piece) stick into the smoke path a good 3/4", but the brush is a bunch of "quills" that should slide right by the screws.
3) I pulled the insert outward from the fireplace as far as I can without disconnecting the chimney, this helped a little bit, I got the brush into the chimney at least a foot to a foot and a half, then stuck - depending on how hard one pushes.
4) I am using the fiberglass rods that are sold by Lowes, and over the web, I got some both places and they appear to be the same manufacturer. They are rather stiff and may be a big part of the problem.
5) the brush fibers/quills are attached to a very stiff metal rod that is about 10" long, this and the solid part of the rod to which the brush screws in makes the assembly have a very stiff starter section about a foot long.

Any suggestions? Can I push too hard on the rod and get in trouble? Here I am not so strong as to may that an issue, but I am reluctant to push real hard and get the brush stuck up the chimney.

I looked up the chimney with a hand light and mirror and it looks like there is very little "dust" up as far as I can see. Is the worst section the top part? I can't see up more than 3 or 4 feet I estimate. But a clean lower end seems to suggest the chimney isn't very dirty. After I cleaned the tubes, and the heat buffer cleaning the entry area to the chimney produced only a small pile of very black hard particles, maybe a full cup is all, then it looked quite clean, could see the metallic finish of the SS chimney liner.

 

[vvvv]

worst section is on top for creosote, ithink

 

[oconnor]

Is there a specific reason you aren't pushing it down from the top? My poly brush fit through my elbows into my insert top down. I can't imagine the mess I'd have in the living room going bottom up.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

I'm not willing to go onto my second story steep roof. I can tell from the ground that the cap is clean enough to pass smoke, with binoculars I can see through the screen vent slots. So all I need to clean is the pipe itself. Back before the insert was installed and I had a chimney cleaning company clean my masonry chimney they were at times seen going on the roof, they were willing to, but I also saw them cleaning from the hearth end, with their shop vacuum running. I also had the masonry chimney "rotary" cleaned once - that was all done from the hearth. I never noticed an significant dust/ash in the room.

 

[velvetfoot]

I clean my insert from the bottom and use a vacuum as well. I put a hose on the exhaust and stick it out the window but I don't think too much gets past the filter. I tried using a poly brush when I read here that steel might not be good. It was too stiff, and I couldn't push it through, so I went back to the steel brush. You've tried a lighter weight poly brush, so this might not apply. I've read here that some people trim the ends of the poly brush. I'm not sure it's worth it.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

So, I'm not the only one... some comfort there, misery loves company. Velvetfoot, are you saying the steel brush is easier to push up the chimney? Are the steel fibers softer than the poly?

I first tried trimming the stiff poly brush and it helped but (don't remember, that was last year) I decided based on inputs on this forum to try a softer poly. Well, that is what this post is about. I also cut the lower couple of "rows" off the softer brush, still hard to push.

I had thought about running the vacuum exhaust out the window, but I didn't notice any dust after vacuuming the box out, and that had some fine wood ash in it. My only problem is getting the brush up the chimney.

 

[vvvv]

steel brush in ss chimney aint good= steel + chromium= corrosion

 

[Jerry_NJ]

I'm not a metallurgist, but I think we're talking about Stainless steel and steel(wire brush), and this, what, causes the stainless to rust? Seems strange, I assumed there was a concern that the steel brush would simply put too much wear on the rather thin stainless steel walls. Whatever, I purchased poly brushes based on the good past advice of this forum. I first tried the regular/heavy duty that clearly wouldn't work and then went to the light duty poly, which is the same size, but has thinner bristles. Still, very high resistance to pushing it up the chimney.

I tried again, this time I positioned my body squarely in front of the insert (which sits on the floor, not elevated) so that I could put pressure with both hands, one go help bend the push rod from horizontal to vertical and the other hand to push upward toward the chimney. This helped some, I got the brush up far enough to need to put on the second 4' section of rod, but the pushing didn't get easier, even though I think the brush was by this time into the vertical run of the chimney. I think I'll "sleep" on this and try again tomorrow. Maybe I'll cut more of the bristles off the heavy duty, taking it down to about a 5" brush and see if I can push that one up the chimney. That brush is of no use anyway.

 

[Shari]

Jerry - Maybe the rod you are using does not have enough 'flex' in it. Sounds like you are turning a 90 degree angle to get up the liner.

Shari

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Well the angle total is 90 degrees, the horizontal floor to the vertical chimney. Of course it is accomplished with an arc with a radius of about 8" I'd estimate.

The trade-off between stiff and flexible is flex is needed to make bends, and stiff is needed to push. I can't push a brush up the chimney with a "rope"... I assume the rod manufacturer takes all of this into account, but of course it would work easier if the rods were just in the vertical position such as if the pipe was well above the floor, say, and the chimney going through the ceiling rather than to an outside stack.

 

[velvetfoot]

Yes, for me, the steel brush was easier to push up the liner than the poly. Not sure, but I think the poly brush was a Rutland. Just like you, I never got the poly brush through and thought I'd get it stuck in there. Now wouldn't that be a mess. I use flex rods that are similar to sprinkler pipe (VERY expensive sprinkler pipe with screw on fittings on each end). It's a 2 story colonial style. When I cleaned it a couple of weeks ago, I just brushed it back and forth up the entire length, with a vacuum hose in the bottom, and the exhaust of the vacuum sticking out the window, not that there's much dust coming out of it. The brush hit a couple of tight spots, not sure why, but it went all the way to the cap with not crazy pushing.

 

[yanksforever]

Yes, for me, the steel brush was easier to push up the liner than the poly. Not sure, but I think the poly brush was a Rutland. Just like you, I never got the poly brush through and thought I'd get it stuck in there. Now wouldn't that be a mess. I use flex rods that are similar to sprinkler pipe (VERY expensive sprinkler pipe with screw on fittings on each end). It's a 2 story colonial style. When I cleaned it a couple of weeks ago, I just brushed it back and forth up the entire length, with a vacuum hose in the bottom, and the exhaust of the vacuum sticking out the window, not that there's much dust coming out of it. The brush hit a couple of tight spots, not sure why, but it went all the way to the cap with not crazy pushing.

You are not suppose to use a steel brush on a Stainless Steel Liner. If you tried a Sweepsall Style brush the job would have been a lot easier.

 

[velvetfoot]

They seem pretty nice, but minimum diameter seems to be 8".

Maybe next year I'll try another style plastic model. Could get a little expensive experimenting though.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Both my heavy/regular duty and light duty poly brushes are Rutland. I'll go to the garage and look at the one box I saved, but believe it is Rutland. Both look the same at a distance of 20', but on closer inspection one can see the bristles on the light duty are about 1/2 the "gauge" of those on the heavy duty. Still a lot, a real lot, of friction pushing the brush up the chimney. The steel must be much finer bristles if it goes up easier.

I'll try to locate a "Sweepsall" poly brush, but it has to be a different design if it is going to be easier to push.

I've left the insert out on the hearth as far as it will go to try again. I hope to get to that today, before my wife gets home from her visit to our daughter's home.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

I see the Sweepsall http://www.lindemannchimney.com/category/sweepsall-brushes
is a round brush but a very different design. More dense bristles over a much shorter length of rod - and apparently of finer bristles. In fact it says the 8" brush is used for 6" liners. Thus the bristles will flex over going up and down - still I see another $50 investment is something that works for someone else. I had recommendations on the Rutland brushes, and to get the lighter duty if I was having problems with the heavy/standard duty (may be called professional duty).

Do take me as rejecting inputs, I welcome the Sweepsall suggestion, but am getting a little frustrated at what should be a simple job.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

Maybe you are a candidate for the brush that looks like a weed eater deal? The "Soot Eater" I don't have one, never seen one in person, but have read people who used it and liked it...

http://www.northlineexpress.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=5GA-RCH205

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Now that's one would have to go up with minimum resistance, just the force to bend the rods up the chimney from the horizontal. Given it is driven by a drill, they must be light and flexible. I see they are on back-order, so the word must be out.

 

[velvetfoot]

Check out the price for additional extension rods if 18' isn't enough.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

I have 7x4' = 28', plus about 1' for the brush mounting rod.... my problem is not being able to get more than one rod, 5' into the pipe. At least I know I have gotten by the angel back from the insert to the straight vertical run behind the smoke shelve. Still it is binding. I also see the "light duty" I have is classified "medium duty".

I check, the brush box I have is not Rutland, maybe I purchased from Rutland, and that is what is meant. I am going to take the heavy duty and cut it way back so that it has only a row or two of full 6" diameter bristles and see if I can get that up the chimney... if not, then ???

 

[Dieselbreath]

I also recommend the sooteater. I recently purchased it and it makes cleaning a lot easier. I needed the extra rods but since there wasn't much difference in price I just bought a second set.
You can use it from the top or bottom.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Thanks, I may put a Sooteater on my wish list...

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Ok, here's my wrap-up. I consider the chimney cleaned.

I took the heavy duty brush and cut off the bottom 6" or so of rows of bristles. I did this to the heavy duty as I considered it the most likely throwaway of the two brushes I have. This gave me about 3" vertical of bristles, but also a bit short of 6" diameter as I had cut the diameter down in an earlier try before I purchased the medium duty 6" brush. The Heavy duty brush was shorter to begin with, vertical length of bristles. This resized brush had the initial force fit to get the brush over the angle back to get behind the smoke shelf of the fireplace - then it went up with only minor drag - still black particles and a little bit of dust started falling into the fire box. I had a vacuum running so I don't have a good measure of how much I got out of the chimney, but I'd guess no more than a couple of cups. At the sixth 4' rod the vertical travel abruptly stopped. I went outside and did a careful estimate of the chimney by counting the rows of bricks. This gave me approximately 24' for the height, a little more to the rain cap. So, I believe I got to the top and ran into the rain cap or into a cross member in the cap mounting. Using binoculars I could clearly see the screen on the rain cap is clean, no build up.

I estimate the stove saw 3+ cords (maybe 4 cords max) of hardwood with a small (perhaps 10%) of soft wood: white pine and eastern cedar...from my yard cleanups. All wood was well seasoned, at least a full year, more for the softwood. Looking up the chimney from the insert, suppose I could see up about 4-5 feet, I could clearly see the metallic finish (some copper look to it, but is stainless steel), no sign of black soot or creosote - I take it the chimney is clean enough for the coming season. Next cleaning I'll try cutting the vertical length back on the medium duty brush, which has a full 6" diameter and see how that goes. I may also consider buying the rotary cleaner - sooteater noted by another poster.