maple1
Minister of Fire
Are you talking open system here, or open storage? I haven't seen many or any open system diagrams, I don't think.
Storage tank placement
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Are you talking open system here, or open storage? I haven't seen many or any open system diagrams, I don't think.
altmartion
Feeling the Heat
ArborAirs
New Member
Just trying to follow along here... So pressurized means exchanger coils inside the vessel and you pressurize for what reason? Please explain. I'm planning a storage system as well. Is pressurizing worth all the work?
Are the propane pressurized systems not seperated? Or how do they get exchangers inside the tank. I'm not stuck on the tanks I have if this is going to be a problematic system. Certainly don't want to be cooking circs like it was my hobby.
altmartion
Feeling the Heat
what is your reason for so much storage? the boiler itself is 50 gallons and how much radiant do you have. the radiant itself is storage and usually more than people think. have you had or done a heat load? I am just wondering where you came up with your load.
maple1
Minister of Fire
Pressurized just means closed & under pressure. Most hot water heating systems are pressurized, the boiler & distribution system all connected together sharing the same water. No coils involved. Pressurized storage just means big tanks get hooked to that, all still sharing the same water - but with added expansion capcaity to handle the extra water volume. No coils or exhangers, except maybe for DHW. Unpressurized storage is a separate open storage tank. The boiler & distribution systems stay closed/pressurized, and they use heat exchangers to transfer heat between storage & the system/boiler - since they are separate components. Sometimes open is more work, sometimes closed is more work - depends what you have to work with & where you want to get.
If that's the case, then pressurized propane tanks sound like less work. Beats having to add coils to what I've got. I may be able to pick up a couple 500s for nothing or near nothing. The local dealer just gave me a 500 and 250 last summer to make pizza ovens so maybe I can go that route.
Still not sure how that closed system would improve the flow to the circs if they don't have a closed loop to maintain flow but that's ok.
Still not sure how that closed system would improve the flow to the circs if they don't have a closed loop to maintain flow but that's ok.
maple1
Minister of Fire
But they do have a closed loop with pressurized storage - it's all one connected closed system.
Propane tanks are ideal, especially if you can get them on end so they stratify better and enable good gravity flow to the tops in a power outage. I've got two 330's, stacked horizontally. I'd like to have bigger ones, but don't have the space. Also would have put them on end if I had the head room.
Propane tanks are ideal, especially if you can get them on end so they stratify better and enable good gravity flow to the tops in a power outage. I've got two 330's, stacked horizontally. I'd like to have bigger ones, but don't have the space. Also would have put them on end if I had the head room.
altmartion
Feeling the Heat
I personally don't think it is worth it. honestly, storage is almost always oversized. usually 50-100 gallons is suffice. and storage is actually designed for improving cycling problems. it takes a lot of energy to heat and maintain that much water. most likely it won't stay at an acceptable heating temp for too long. at least not the amount of time you are looking for. I am afraid you are stepping over a hundred to grab a dime.
altmartion
Feeling the Heat
I was going to run an exchanger off the boiler into storage and it seems the system I was looking at would be open off the storage.
As I noted, I'm not opposed to ditching that system. It was just a setup I located on one of the boiler manufacturers sites, though I don't recall which.
I'm just wanting to get this all sorted prior to building. Wouldn't make much sence to intentionally craft a potential maintenance problem.
As I noted, I'm not opposed to ditching that system. It was just a setup I located on one of the boiler manufacturers sites, though I don't recall which.
I'm just wanting to get this all sorted prior to building. Wouldn't make much sence to intentionally craft a potential maintenance problem.
altmartion
Feeling the Heat
you can run two separate systems with some sort of heat exchanger. personally I prefer tube in shell. just remember that the open side is oxygen rich and requires different stuff. like the pump fir instance, it should be brass or ss. just make sure any thing that touches that water is made to do so.. will you be anti freezing this. I recommend it if you frequently go out of town.
Sounds like I'm going closed.
Everything will be inside and most below grade so freezing isn't a concern. While I don't have anyone handy to keep the system running daily, I do have people that could fire for me if I were to be gone an extended period of time. Typically, I'm only away a couple days at most.
Everything will be inside and most below grade so freezing isn't a concern. While I don't have anyone handy to keep the system running daily, I do have people that could fire for me if I were to be gone an extended period of time. Typically, I'm only away a couple days at most.
altmartion
Feeling the Heat
maple1
Minister of Fire
I'm going to have to recommend to go the other way on storage volume - especially if you have a Biomass 60. That can pump out a lot of heat. I have 660 gallons & would love to have more, would not want to have less. 50-100 gallons would not hold even half of a boiler burn and spell lots of cycling, and not last very long when not burning. If the tanks are within the building envelope, or even an outbuilding you want to keep heated a bit, there will be no lost heat as any that does make it out goes to heating your space. They hold heat very well if insulated, mine take 4 days to drop from 190 to 140 when just heating DHW in the off-season. Half a degree an hour - and I still have a little bit of insulating to finish up.
Exactly what I wanted to hear. These will be very well insulated in their pit, in addition tobeing below grade in a heated structure. There won't be an off season for this boiler as it will be doing extra duty to heat my pool again next year. It did a great job last summer in this capacity.
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