Stove advice: VC intrepid for opportunistic burning?

[EdwardK]

Hi I found this site this morning and have got back from work now so can ask a question (be kind I'm new )

Situation:
I live in Guernsey (near France) and am rennovating a granite semi-detached cottage of about 100m2 right by the sea. I worked out my heat loss the other day and it is about 9 kw or 31,000 btu/h. Downstairs is a lounge/corridor/kitchen/loo and upstairs 3 bedrooms and a bathroom. The lounge is 6.5m x 4.7m (x2.4m high). I make this room about 3.85 kw (13,000 btu/h).

Heating:
I'm planning on insulating a bit better and need to plumb everything (originally no internal plumbing). I am not keen to go with oil as it is currrently 46p a litre and rising (reckon I'd need 1000 litres a year for heating and hot water). The outside temperature never freezes and according to some stats I found the mean air temp over winter varies between 6C to 8C. Some days it dips to 1C or so but never below zero, some days it is 12C or so. No snow and rarely frost.

I was planning on putting a wood burning stove in the main room and was thinking of a Vermont Casting Intrepid II or something around 7kw.

I'm asking here if that is a good choice for burning wood as and when I can find it (main heating will be something else - maybe solar store/radiators etc we get 1800 to 2000 hours sunshine a year) - it's hard to get a good supply of wood but I am keen to have a stove nonetheless. Most of the wood is carpentry offcuts and so on.

I'm guessing that this sort of size could really help me out in Jan/Feb when it is colder outside and bump the heat for weekends and evenings.

I have read a bit here on stoves with soapstone sides too - this sounds interesting. The local shop sells VC / Jotul / some italian ceramic shiny red stoves / Hunter / Stovax etc

I rebuilt the chimney from the hearth to the pot and lined it with ceramic/terracota liners. The old fireplace is about 23" wide and 14" deep. I currently have no lintel/mantle so can have any height. I am guessing that I would need to stand the stove into the room as the VC Intrepid is something like 21" and this wouldn't give good heat circulation?

Any advice on this stove and situation would be gratefully accepted
Many thanks
Ed

 

[begreen]

It's a nice little stove and probably has the longest burn times for its size. I can't say how well it will work with carpentry cut-off, that is very dry wood, but it should work out, especially if you can mix in some real wood. You'll need to be careful to only burn clean wood and no laminated or glued woods. They can clog or damage the convertor.

 

[EdwardK]

Thanks - I think that the Intrepid comes in different models ? What is the best one to go for? I guess I will have to buy some decent wood in that case. I think it will be ok to buy wood as I will be burning probably only Dec/Jan/Feb.

What would be good stoves to look at in comparison to this? I'm after a 'pretty' stove

Would consider soapstone ones but know nothing about them - going to read about them this weekend.

Cheers
Ed

 

[begreen]

In the US, the Intrepid is only available in the catalytic version now. That is the one I was referring to. The Jotul F3CB is roughly the same size, and a nice stove, but won't match the Intrepid for burn times. Figure about 3 hrs tops. There are also small Morso stoves to consider.

 

[EdwardK]

Thanks - I looked at the Jotul F3 and it seems good too.
I read a bit about HearthStone stoves and the details on the soapstone seem to make sense to me (A longer more even heat) - would something like the Jotul F250 with soapstone side panels produce a good level of heat?

Or do you need to go the whole way and get a specifically designed soapstone stove? If so which ones are equivalent-ish to the VC Intrepid etc.

Someone's given me some money so I have more to spend on a stove now Hoping to get a really nice one of around 7kw (or a bit more - I think the F250 is 9kw).

Also decided to spend a decent amount on buying good wood each year - guess that's the best thing to do.

Cheers for any advice.
Ed

 

[Gooserider]

The Intrepid would probably work well for you, or I would look at a low cost steel plate stove.

A couple of minor comments -

1. Soapstone really only works well for people that can burn 24/7 or close to it - it takes quite a while to get hot, and stays hot for a long time after the fire goes out, but it isn't good for "I'm cold, let me build a fire and thaw out" type burning because of the long lag. A steel or cast iron stove will give you heat faster.

2. Noticing that you are right by the sea - you likely get a fair bit of driftwood - DON'T BURN IT! The fumes aren't healthy to breathe, I think they may well poison the cat in a cat stove like the Intrepid (Indeed if you wanted to burn driftwood I would consider that a good reason NOT to get the Intrepid) and the salt fumes plus the moisture from burning will EAT the stove and chimney in short order.

Gooserider

 

[EdwardK]

Thanks Gooserider - I'll avoid the driftwood like the plague then ! So for it's class/size the VC Intrepid is the one to go for?

Soapstone: - was thinking about it as I go out to work in the day and could fire it up in the morning with a one load and then hopefully that would keep the damp marine climate out until I got back (out at 8am and back home at 5pm - 15 min commute ) and could load the evening load in... or is it not a good idea to leave a fire ticking over while not being there ?

Any others I should be considering in the size I'm looking for ?

Can I have the stove in the hole or should it stand completely out on the hearth and no parts of the stove in the chimney space?

Might post a pic of what I meanif I canget a digital camera.

Thanks for any advice.

Ed

 

[begreen]

Is this the version of the F250 you are looking at? It is basically a castiron stove with soapstone convector sides, a hybrid of sorts. Nice looking stove. We can't get it here, but it looks like a nice compromise. Perhaps it won't burn that long, but the soapstone will extend the heating a little. On the downside though, it takes very short logs 12" (30cm).

 

[Gooserider]

Thanks Gooserider - I'll avoid the driftwood like the plague then ! So for it's class/size the VC Intrepid is the one to go for?

I think so, but opinions vary. I might also be tempted to step up to the next larger size if burn times are an issue for you. The Intrepid's biggest virtue is that the cat gives it extremely long burn times for it's size.

[/quote]Soapstone: - was thinking about it as I go out to work in the day and could fire it up in the morning with a one load and then hopefully that would keep the damp marine climate out until I got back (out at 8am and back home at 5pm - 15 min commute ) and could load the evening load in... or is it not a good idea to leave a fire ticking over while not being there ?[/quote]

That might work, as long as you had a decent sized unit. The key would be never to let the stove go out long enough to cool down. Earlier you said your wood supply would be unpredictable, which is why I thought soapstne might not be a good choice for you. There is no particular issue with leaving a woodstove burning when you aren't around. People do it all the time with furnaces and don't even think about it, and stoves tend to be built at least as solidly as many furnaces. As long as you have a properly done installation, and follow the basic rules for proper operation, there is no reason not to leave the stove running while you are gone.

[/quote]Any others I should be considering in the size I'm looking for ?[/quote]

Not sure. As BG points out there are stoves you can get, that we can't. In addition there are people who feel more strongly involved with other brands, that might think their's did better.

[/quote]Can I have the stove in the hole or should it stand completely out on the hearth and no parts of the stove in the chimney space?[/quote]

You can put the stove in the fireplace opening, but that can hurt the heat output in some cases, depending on where the chimney is. In general if the chimney is in a central location in the building, it can actually be a good thing as the fireplace masonry will absorb heat from the stove and then radiate it back out gradually over time. If the chimney is exterior, then the heat mostly goes to the outdoors, so you would want to keep the stove as isolated from it as you can.

If you put the stove inside the fireplace, you can improve the heating by putting a small fan to circulate the air around it.

Either way you will need to ensure the stove is sitting on an appropriate hearth pad that provides 18" of coverage in front of the loading doors (about 0.5 m) You will also want to fit a "blockoff plate" around the flue pipe so that your heat doesn't escape up the chimney.

One other issue that would possibly make putting the Intrepid in a fireplace opening difficult is that the Intrepid is a top-load stove, and you would not want to position it where the top-load door was blocked.

[/quote]Might post a pic of what I meanif I canget a digital camera.

Thanks for any advice.

Ed[/quote]

No problem, glad to help out.

Gooserider

 

[EdwardK]

Here are some images of the hearth so far.

As you can see the brick work is a bit knackered.

I was planning on wirebrushing all the soot off and then trying to fill / skim the big holes prior to the plasterer coming.
And gettign a nice granite lintel.

The back of the hearth is deeper than the walls either side. 34" from hearth front to back and 14" from the side wall to back.
The inside width is 22" and the hearth width is 41".

Am still leaning towards the VC Intrepid II (think they have a multifuel one in the local shopbut will try and get the cat woodburner one).

 

[Gooserider]

Looks like it ought to work well with an Intrepid, though you might need to extend your hearth out a little bit. The building codes in the US require 18" in front of any loading doors. While the Intrepid mostly loads through the top, it does have a front load door, as well as the ashpan, so it applies. I don't know what your codes will require, though I would be surprised if it were much less.

What is the flue like in the chimney? How big is it, and is it tile lined? What sort of shape is it in? If it matches the shape of the other bricks, US codes would require you to install a full length insulated Stainless Steel liner to ensure your chimney meets current fire protection standards. There are also rules that say the cross section area of the chimney can't be more than 2x the stove outlet area on an exterior chimney, or 3x on an interior chimney. This is to ensure that the stove drafts properly. Quite aside from safety and performance, a liner also makes cleaning MUCH easier. We've had one or two other UK posters that have indicated you can get liners there fairly easily, and there are lots of threads here that deal with how to put one in.

It looks like the fireplace is about 36" high going by counting the bricks? (Don't know if you use US sized bricks or not) If so, you may or may not be able to shove the stove all the way back into the fireplace and still have room for the top load door to open, you might need to have it sticking out a bit. However it should be a fairly easy hookup either way with the Intrepid's reversible flue collar setup - either rear vent into a "T" attached to the liner, or top vent and go straight up - which you do would probably depend on just how the liner comes into the fireplace. I wouldn't try to get any kind of lintel peice over the top, at least not until I saw how the stove fit into it.

Gooserider

 

[EdwardK]

Thanks for the reply - the height at the moment is 45" (big old bricks) andyes I have lined the chimney all the way up and built a new stack too (last Feb... chilly but surprisingly dry ).
It is lined with terracotta/ceramic 12" liners all the way and these have an internal diameter of about 7 1/4" (185mm).

The regs here are 12" / 300mm in front of the doors so I think I should be ok.

I think you are right. I'll try and buy it, get it delivered and then play around with positioning it etc. Besides I still need some external doors

Got a question again: I have stairs going up that pass through the opposite diagonal corner of this room. I was planning on boxing the sides in but if I wanted normal open sided stairs with balusters how much would that effect the heat loss from that room? Would all the heat go up the stairs?


Cheers
Ed

 

[Gooserider]

Thanks for the reply - the height at the moment is 45" (big old bricks) andyes I have lined the chimney all the way up and built a new stack too (last Feb... chilly but surprisingly dry ).
It is lined with terracotta/ceramic 12" liners all the way and these have an internal diameter of about 7 1/4" (185mm).

The regs here are 12" / 300mm in front of the doors so I think I should be ok.

I think you are right. I'll try and buy it, get it delivered and then play around with positioning it etc. Besides I still need some external doors

Got a question again: I have stairs going up that pass through the opposite diagonal corner of this room. I was planning on boxing the sides in but if I wanted normal open sided stairs with balusters how much would that effect the heat loss from that room? Would all the heat go up the stairs?


Cheers
Ed

Well with that tall of a fireplace opening, you should have no problem - I think the Intrepid is about 24" to the stove-top, at least that's what my Encore is, so you will have no problem with clearing the load door.

Not sure what you'd need for connecting to the chimney, under US codes you'd have the choice of doing a "direct connect" with a length of flue pipe into the 1st tile and a well-sealed blockoff plate, or a full length liner - since you have tiles in good shape, presumably you wouldn't need to insulate it. The latter solution would be more expensive, but easier to clean. Given your climate, either should work OK in terms of draft.

As to the stairs, unless you box them in, or close the top in some way, you will get significant heat going up them - depending on whether you want heat upstairs or not this could be a good thing, and just how much heat you will get up there will depend on your setup details, but it will be significant. One option to keep the first floor looking "normal" might be to build an open staircase going up to the second floor, but to box in the second floor landing and put a door at the head of the stairs. If you insulate the box, use a well insulated door, weather seal it, etc. then you'd get some heat going up into the box, but not a lot.

Gooserider

 

[EdwardK]

Well it's lucky I'm a patient man ! Over a year on and I still haven't got any flames flickering.

I went for the VC Intrepid II in the end and got it towards the end of last winter. Since then I've been busy with electrics and plumbing etc.

Now it's getting cold again !

I've made the hearth wider by taking down the side columns, rebuilding them further apart and putting in a granite lintel above.

At the moment I am trying to decide between the following hearth materials:

1 - slate tiles - about 200mm square and about 12mm thick.
2 - rough granite - irregular shapes and about 40mm thick.
3 - polished black granite - 600mm square and 20mm thick.

I got the latter from a friend yesterday and think it will be harder wearing than slate. They are floor tiles that she had spare and I think if I have two side by side the front will look good at 1200mm x 600mm and then some offcuts in the back to fill up the 400mm x 900mm space.

Any thoughts ?

The sub-hearth is poured concrete so should I just bed this in standard cement mortar or tile adhesive ?

Then I was planning on getting a friend to make a steel plate and get some thick steel pipe to connect the stove to the flue liner.
At the moment the last flue liner is flush with the top of the concrete that I poured as I put the liners in so I should be able to bolt a plate onto this and then sort out some pipe that I can dismantle each year for cleaning porpoises.

Thanks
Ed

 

[Gooserider]

Any of those stone materials sound good, but I agree the black granite sounds like it would be neat looking... I'd probably not use the rough granite just because it would make the stove a bit harder to level, but it would work.

I think you'd want to use a latex fortified tile cement to bond the granite tiles to the hearth, with a latex fortified grout between them to finish the job.

In terms of connecting the stove, the backup plate sounds good, but I'd check w/ your local code people about what they'd want to see connecting the stove to the chimney - in the US you have to use pipes that are UL listed as suitable, and can't use just any sort of pipe, no matter how thick it might be.

Gooserider

 

[EdwardK]

Hi - well finally I have some warmth !
Got the plate bolted on and a connector pipe to join the stove straight through (not T).

I've gone for the black granite hearth and a rough granite lintel. Getting there with the rest of the house and only form of heating so far...

Right - got a few issues with it already

I've been burning pine planking that came out of the house and old window frames. Probably not ideal but it is hard to get logs here. And I wanted to get some heat going. The issue has mostly been with what appears to be condensation/liquid coming back down the chimney. I can't decide whether this is moisture from the wood condensing in a cool chimney before it has run for a while or whether it is just the wet wood.

When I have the back plate/baffle (handle at side that operates it - changes it from a direct connection to the flue to passing the smoke through a heat exchanger) and the top plate open I can see drops of water dripping onto the plate.

Also I think that I haven't sealed the stove collar (straight up or you can twist it and rebolt so it sticks out the back for a T join) correctly as I have some of this liquid bubbling out around that joint - it's fine when the baffle is open as it drips onto that and burns off.

Help ! What am I doing wrong 9apart from not burning proper logs and not sealing the reversible stove collar I hear you all say...)

Apart from that it is cooool - really enjoying having some heat - it has been a bitter winter over here and I'm no longer colder than a well digger's a$$.
Thanks Ed

 

[Gooserider]

Hi - well finally I have some warmth !
Got the plate bolted on and a connector pipe to join the stove straight through (not T).

I've gone for the black granite hearth and a rough granite lintel. Getting there with the rest of the house and only form of heating so far...

Right - got a few issues with it already

Well, glad to see you are finally getting some heat...

I've been burning pine planking that came out of the house and old window frames. Probably not ideal but it is hard to get logs here. And I wanted to get some heat going. The issue has mostly been with what appears to be condensation/liquid coming back down the chimney. I can't decide whether this is moisture from the wood condensing in a cool chimney before it has run for a while or whether it is just the wet wood.

I'm VERY concerned about that wood - you are using a cat stove, and one of the downsides of a cat is that it is VERY fussy about what you feed it - it must only be given clean, unpainted wood, or you can permanently destroy the converter! It isn't good to burn painted, treated, or other "composite" wood, such as plywood or particle board in ANY stove, but a standard stove is less likely to be damaged by doing that... I know you were talking earlier about using lumber offcuts and such, which are OK since they aren't stained or painted, but I'd be real concerned about what might have been done to old wood pulled out of the house.

That doesn't really account for the liquid though - especially since wood from inside the house would normally be drier than normal firewood.

When I have the back plate/baffle (handle at side that operates it - changes it from a direct connection to the flue to passing the smoke through a heat exchanger) and the top plate open I can see drops of water dripping onto the plate.

Actually the function of that handle isn't to send stuff through a "heat exchanger" but rather that is where the cat lives. The idea is to have the flap open to bypass the cat when starting the stove, loading, etc. in order to get the best possible draft, then when the stove is hot enough to "light off" the cat, you close the flap to send the combustion gasses through the cat for burning. You should have the bypass flap open any time you open the loading door, or you are likely to get a lot of smoke in the room.

Either way, I'd think the liquid is not a huge problem - if it's water, it will keep evaporating and eventually go out the chimney, and if it's liquid creosote, it should get burned eventually.

Also I think that I haven't sealed the stove collar (straight up or you can twist it and rebolt so it sticks out the back for a T join) correctly as I have some of this liquid bubbling out around that joint - it's fine when the baffle is open as it drips onto that and burns off.

If that collar is like the one on my Encore, you should have a gasket that fits into a groove in the stove body between the stove and the collar. It is glued in place with refractory cement. Otherwise your connector pipes should all be installed with the tapered ends pointing DOWN so that they fit inside the pipe below them - this is somewhat counterintuitive, as most people want to direct the smoke up, but more importantly is to keep any creosote drippings contained...

Help ! What am I doing wrong 9apart from not burning proper logs and not sealing the reversible stove collar I hear you all say...)

Apart from that it is cooool - really enjoying having some heat - it has been a bitter winter over here and I'm no longer colder than a well digger's a$$.
Thanks Ed

Hope this helps out...

Gooserider

 

[EdwardK]

Many thanks,
The burner I have is the multifuel version (europe only I think) and I assumed that it didn't have the cat converter that the wood only one had - will take some photos later to confirm. But anyway, yes, the wood didn't have paint on it, just dry old unpainted pine boards. Will try and source some proper logs and in the meantime carry on burning carpentry off cuts (untreated hard wood like utile & ash - should be alright ?).

The collar isn't fire cemented in place - the join on mine has a groove filled with fire proof rope - I assumed that the two screws would provide enough pressure to make that smoke proof but wasn't counting on the liquid ! Will disassemble and add a smear of fire clay around that.

The plate and pipe are all like you say with the join in the right direction - learnt the hard way as I was putting in the terracotta liners in teh chimney I originally put them in the wrong way round and the building inspector pointed this out (I rebuilt it all the right way). So when a friend made the connection parts I specified this. They are joined with a wrap of fire rope and then topped off with fire cement - that part seems to be working fine.

Ok I was worried about the liquid but guess it will evaporate away once I get the joint working properly - just needs fire cement.

For a good burn what should I be doing ? So far I have started off with a small kindling fire with the baffle open (cat bypass) then built that up for 1/2 hour or so before adding larger stuff, getting some nice hot charcol and then closing the baffle and directing it through the cat. After that I have just been adding wood through the top plate.

Really happy with it apart from the liquid thing - will try to stop the stove abuse by feeding it properly
Thanks for the help.
Ed

 

[Gooserider]

I'm surprised you are having a problem with the joint on your stove, my Encore uses the same setup - though I'm doing the rear exit into a tee, so if I had drippage it would be going into the cap on the tee rather than the stove...

Burning regular carpentry offcuts should be OK, though you need to be careful to avoid overfiring when burning any sort of wood like that where you have drier than usual and small peices.

I don't know what kind of setup you'd have in the multi-fuel version, probably the best thing to do would be to check the stove manual and see what it says - however I'd suspect that either you won't have a cat, or they will want you to remove it when burning non-wood, as coal has stuff in it that would be bad for the cat...

Just out of curiosity, do you folks do anything with peat on your island? I know it's big in parts of Ireland and the UK, but don't know if you do it on the islands.

As to the good burn, it sounds like you are doing things right pretty much, though again, I'd suggest looking at the manual to be sure - every stove is a bit different, so they may have some fine points like where to pile the coals. One thing I didn't see you mention, is that any time you are adding fuel, you want to open the bypass a minute or two before opening the top for loading, so that the smoke will keep going up the chimney, and leave it open for a few minutes to let the new fuel get "charred in" before closing.

Do you have a stove thermometer? That is a very useful aid to good burning.

Gooserider

 

[EdwardK]

Still having issues !
I've taken the collar and flue connector off and sealed it all again with fire cement - all working fine now with no leaks from those places.
When I was burning dry off cuts there was a bit of liquid dripping back down onto the damper plate when it was open but not much.

It's interesting, when I changed wood after the fire had been going for an hour or so alot of liquid started dripping down. I am guessing that the pine planking isn't as dry as I thought. So much liquid came down that it has started to drip from under the stove - I've put a baking tray there to catch it. It smells like creosote so am guessing that I need to source some non-wet wood.

Not sure it should be dripping from the back of the stove though... Am guessing that the liquid is working it's way down and finding another spot that isn't sealed properly. Think that I might just get better wood rather than try to seal that too.

I have checked the instructions I have against the wood only version and it looks like the multi fuel has no cat in it.

How much wood would you get for a house about 100m2 when the outside air temp is about 5C to 12C from November to March ?! 3 or 4 tons ?

If I dry the planking that I have over the summer will it be good for next year (after the summer I will stack inside or covered outside - somewhere dry at any rate. Or will it take alot longer to dry out ?

Think I will try and get a stove thermometer - thanks good advice.

As for the peat - no, not here but we had it when I was in the outer hebrides (Lewis). Very 'special' smell and permeates everything. Quite smoky too - not one of my favourite smells !
Cheers
Ed

 

[Gooserider]

Still having issues !
I've taken the collar and flue connector off and sealed it all again with fire cement - all working fine now with no leaks from those places.
When I was burning dry off cuts there was a bit of liquid dripping back down onto the damper plate when it was open but not much.

It's interesting, when I changed wood after the fire had been going for an hour or so alot of liquid started dripping down. I am guessing that the pine planking isn't as dry as I thought. So much liquid came down that it has started to drip from under the stove - I've put a baking tray there to catch it. It smells like creosote so am guessing that I need to source some non-wet wood.

Not sure it should be dripping from the back of the stove though... Am guessing that the liquid is working it's way down and finding another spot that isn't sealed properly. Think that I might just get better wood rather than try to seal that too.

That is odd, not quite sure what to make of it, as I haven't heard of others having that problem... Definitely you shouldn't be having leakage out of the stove! Given the financial problems that VC has had lately, I don't know what your warranty situation is, but might be worth having a local dealer take a look at it to see if he can figure out a cause / solution.

I have checked the instructions I have against the wood only version and it looks like the multi fuel has no cat in it.

OK, then it does sound like you don't have to worry about poisoning the cat, though it still makes sense to stick with burning good wood - you don't want to poison the neighbors either :lol:

How much wood would you get for a house about 100m2 when the outside air temp is about 5C to 12C from November to March ?! 3 or 4 tons ?

If I dry the planking that I have over the summer will it be good for next year (after the summer I will stack inside or covered outside - somewhere dry at any rate. Or will it take alot longer to dry out ?

It is really hard to guess how much wood you'd need - we think in terms of cords here (4' x 8' x 4' = 128 cu. ft, which I think is very roughly about 4.5 cu. meters) and usage varies wildly depending on house size, climate, burning patterns, and so on... I would make a wild guess of 2-3 cords, but could be way off... Small peices will burn faster in theory, so that might also impact things. However, wood doesn't spoil except in the extremely long term, so getting in more than you need won't be a problem (other than finding some place to put it), many of our members (myself included) try to have at least wood supplies at least "two years out" - I'm currently burning the 08/09 wood, and have my 09/10 supply already cut and split, will move it into my woodsheds as soon as the snow melts this spring, and start working on the 10/11 supply this summer, maybe even get into the 11/12 supply a bit.

MOST wood will season and dry adequately in about 9-12 months of good weather, with a few varieties taking longer, such as oak and locust, among others - however the woods that take a long time to season are also among the best fuel woods once dry. If you look around the forums, you will hear a great many arguments about how best to season wood, however I think it is safe to say that there is a strong agreement that it needs to be kept off the ground, and stacked in such a way that air circulation can get to it. Many people advocate covering it, but ONLY on the top to keep the rain off, NOT on the sides as it needs ventilation. As I mentioned, I have a woodshed (two actually) that lets me keep about 7.5 cords under cover - I will burn 3-5 cords a season - my sheds are roofed, but open on the sides, with tarps that I keep rolled up 3 seasons out of the year, but lower in the winter to keep snow from blowing into the wood.

Many people like to use a moisture meter on their wood, for our purposes a cheap unit works fine - we have a company in the US called Harbor Freight that sells cheap Asian import tools, they have one that's about $15 US, it isn't great, but it does the job. Ideal burning wood is about 10-15%, with wood over 20-25% being considered a problem fuel. Drier tends to burn overly fast.

Think I will try and get a stove thermometer - thanks good advice.

As for the peat - no, not here but we had it when I was in the outer hebrides (Lewis). Very 'special' smell and permeates everything. Quite smoky too - not one of my favourite smells !
Cheers
Ed

Never had much of a chance to burn peat, but in moderation it does make for a nice Scotch.... (Though Isle of Jura is a bit excessive...)

Gooserider

 

[EdwardK]

Thanks,
I bought it over a year ago now I think and the local dealers would charge me a whack for looking at it (end up doing everything myself - same with building). Am hoping that dry wood will help.
As for stacking and drying wood I have access to a field with a barn so might try and use that as a wood store for long term storage and then bring back a month or two's supply to the house.
Now I am worried about the chimney - if all this liquid is being produced have I created creosote in the chimney (am guessing I have). Will this burn off with dry wood usage over the next few months or am I better off sweeping it now and then starting again with dry wood ?
How much of a danger is it to have a chimney with creosote in it ? (Have had about 3 evenings worth of fires with wet wood - maybe 1/2 a cubic meter ?).

Thanks for any advice - back to the rest of the building works now...
Ed

Jura is nice ! More of a Balvenie fan myself... (double wood) or randomly Sauza Tres Generaciones (can't find it here though).

 

[Gooserider]

Thanks,
I bought it over a year ago now I think and the local dealers would charge me a whack for looking at it (end up doing everything myself - same with building). Am hoping that dry wood will help.

Well it might still be worth it if you can't figure the problem out, but drier wood should certainly help. One test we will sometimes reccomend is that our grocery stores often sell bundles of firewood that are "kiln dried", plastic wrapped, and WAY overpriced, but are a known good product - If you can get one or two of those bundles, it might be worth trying to burn a couple to see if they work without making creosote.

As for stacking and drying wood I have access to a field with a barn so might try and use that as a wood store for long term storage and then bring back a month or two's supply to the house.

That sounds pretty good as a solution.

Now I am worried about the chimney - if all this liquid is being produced have I created creosote in the chimney (am guessing I have). Will this burn off with dry wood usage over the next few months or am I better off sweeping it now and then starting again with dry wood ?

You probably have some creosote, but not all that much with so few fires - I'd let it go for now, especially since you probably don't have that long before the end of burning season, when you'll be doing a good cleaning as you shut down for summer... Creosote doesn't burn off completely, but if you periodically burn a good hot fire for a little while (I try to get the stove up to about 800*F for a few minutes every couple of days) that should keep the buildup to a minimum.

How much of a danger is it to have a chimney with creosote in it ? (Have had about 3 evenings worth of fires with wet wood - maybe 1/2 a cubic meter ?).

As long as the buildup isn't excessive, not a huge one - especially not with a properly constructed chimney in good condition... Keep an eye on it, usually it is no problem as long as the buildup isn't more than about 1/2" -3/4" or so, about 2cm.

Thanks for any advice - back to the rest of the building works now...
Ed

Jura is nice ! More of a Balvenie fan myself... (double wood) or randomly Sauza Tres Generaciones (can't find it here though).

I refer to Isle of Jura as "Isle of Peat" - it's a bit much of a good thing... IMHO the best stuff I've found here in the US is Scapa - brewed and aged on the shores of the Scapa Flow, supposedly the bonded warehouses are actually caves in the cliffs looking over the Flow, so it's getting salt air exposure as it ages... Nice balance of flavors, very smooth, and fairly reasonable price (as single malts go) - I've paid a lot more for worse... Of course my usually preferred brew is mead (honey wine) that I make myself, using my own honey, and often other ingredients that I grew or harvested myself...

Gooserider

 

[EdwardK]

Cool - thanks for the advice - that it pretty much what I have just tried. Also I spoke to a mate here who has burnt wood in a 20 KW stove for twenty years or so (quite a few trees !)
He recommended burning hotter and longer. He thought I was 'boiling' the wood by having too low a burn temp and overstacking it = creosote.

I've tried this tonight and so far so good - a kindling fire to get it going for 20 minutes or so, then a few larger pieces (still with the baffle open and full air flow from the primary air inlet) for 40 minutes or so to let the chimney heat up and the stove. He knows I haven't had much (any!) heat this winter so suggested that the whole house material needed warming up and this will take a while.
Also I changed to wood from inside the house which I know is bone dry. Still got dripping at the start of the fire but by getting up to a hotter temp it seemed to clear after an hour and then I closed the baffle and reduced the air flow by half - still enough to give very lively flames but not cranked down to just giving lively flames (where it was before). Then just lobbing in the occasional piece every twenty minutes or so to maintain a steady temp rather than reducing the temp by putting a large load in an smothering the fire. Live and learn !

With this approach it burns more wood faster (but it's all free) and I don't get the leaky black smelly liquid ! Great THanks for all the help - going to dig out a bottle of 18 yr old Talisker that my brother gave me last year

Cheers Ed

 

[Gooserider]

Sounds about right, you want to keep the fire burning fairly strongly, not choke it back to smoldering - when you smolder, you send lots of smoke up the stack, which wastes energy, and makes lots of creosote... The idea of the modern stoves is to keep things hot enough to get the secondary combustion going so that all the smoke gets burned as well as the wood, which gives you a lot more heat from a given amount of wood. (many folks that replace old airtight "smoke dragon" stoves with modern secondary combustion stoves report burning 25-30% less wood for the same amount of heat.)

If you do a search for "stages of combustion" you will see what we are talking about - you need to keep the flames going moderately strong and the temperature up until you have cooked out all the "wood gas" and are basically down to charcoal - that will burn cleanly with very little smoke at a lower temperature even if you do cut the air back considerably on it.

Another thing to watch is what's coming out your chimney - other than possibly some steam (tends to be white and "fluffy", also it dissipates quickly) you shouldn't see any smoke - if you see smoke you need to look at what you are burning and / or how you are burning it...

Gooserider