Stove for an unfinished basement

[silentbob]

I have a an old farmhouse that has been gutted and updated by the previous owner with the exception of the basement. The previous owner buried a 1000 gallon propane tank which is the primary source for heat/hot water and cooking. It's a fairly big house ~3,300 sq ft, however I'm looking to heat about 1200 sq ft. The basement has no source of heat currently and is a stacked rock foundation with a brick chimney that runs through the house to the roof. I'm looking at an older Jotul 118 B in "excellent" condition for $650. I'm hoping to get the price down a bit but is this stove a good choice to heat the basement and the dining/kitchen area right above the basement?

I had my roof re-done 2 years ago and had the brick chimney re-pointed, flashed, capped and scoped with a camera. My roofer said the liner had cracks at the top but wasn't too bad, he "officially" recommended a ss liner be dropped in and personally for piece of mind I have no problem with added safety. I like my roofer (who also sells, services stoves and chimney work), he does good work but is on the higher side with cost. I believe he quoted me 2-3K to drop a liner in my chimney. It's probably 45'.

I have some pictures of the chimney, basement and rooms that I want to heat, that I'll post after I find the cord to download them to my computer. Thanks in advance.

Tom

 

[DAKSY]

IMHO, the F118 isn't big enough to meet your needs.
You probably need something in the 80K BTU range in order to heat an
uninsulated area the size of your basement.
The other problem I see is the height of the structure itself.
You're probably going to have problems in getting ANY wood stove to draft,
unless you put an OAK on it or open a basement window.
Once you get the fire lit, that height will draft like a mutha
& you'll need an in-line damper to keep the heat in the stove.
Also, without knowing the exact layout of your home/chimney,
$2 - 3K seems kinda high. The liner will cost you about $750 &
maybe 2 - 3 hours of labor...
HTH

 

[brianbeech]

I actually DO have an older 118 in an unfinished walkout ranch style house. The rooms I'm wanting to heat are directly above the stove. It has wood floors throughout and there is no insulation between the basement and the rooms upstairs. My main living space is 1650 sq ft and my basement is roughly 1200 sq ft. The stove is directly under the kitchen which is very open to the living room and dining room.

This weekend, it was warmer, around 34f and my stove kept the kitchen area around 71 (with the basement door open). It was really nice. The living room was cooler and the dining room was also quite a bit cooler. The bedrooms were downright cold.

This winter, when it was in the teens, the stove was not enough to keep the kitchen warm and the other two rooms were cold. So much so, we're going to get a stove on the main living floor to burn in concert with the Jotul 118.

My goal is to insulate the basement (which I hear will make an abundance of difference), insulate the attic more, and get a stove upstairs. After doing those three things, I have no doubt that my oil burner will rarely turn on. The Jotul 118 is a great stove in my opinion, but I would greatly oversize a stove for my basement if I were going to keep it uninsulated. You just loose too much heat through the walls.

 

[silentbob]

Here are some pics of the basement and the chimney.

 

[silentbob]

The kitchen/dining room area I want to heat, and my new saw to go with my 025.

 

[begreen]

What is the ceiling height in the basement?

Personally, rather than heating the earth, I'd want a big, close clearance stove upstairs where it can be seen and felt. How about moving over the workout stuff and put the stove where the silver ball is?

 

[pyper]

Is that the chimney right next to the china cabinet? It looks like you could fit a stove there, if you wanted, and poke a hole through.

 

[silentbob]

The ceiling height is about 6' in the basement.

Yes, that is the chimney next to the china cabinet, and I've thought about that option.

The room with the treadmill and such has an existing fireplace, which I light for aesthetics only (picture below).

My main thing here is to heat that space down there to stop some of the cold air from coming up into the kitchen and dining room areas. There are pockets doors going from the dining room into the room with the workout stuff and cold air just rips through the left side. It helps the AC in the summer but not so great in the winter. So, I'm really just looking at supplemental heat, not a main source. I probably should try to heat the entire place with wood, since I have ~60 acres of land with about 25 acres of timber and plenty of down, dead timber. Not to mention all the down wood I want on 550 acres at my hunting/fishing club.

 

[begreen]

Very nice. Have you thought about putting an insert in the fireplace?

I thought about a wood fired furnace, but the low basement ceiling makes honoring clearances challenging. I'm concerned because there is so much going on above the stove. For sure it would need shielding and the duct takeoff rerouted. Is this a full basement or just a partial basement?

 

[Wade A.]

Silent Bob.... From your comments, it sounds to me that your money, time and labor would be better spent on some insulation and weatherstripping. I'm doubting that a stove in that cellar, with all the thermal mass to suck up the heat, would do much to help you. You also may have outside air infiltration as well. Circulation of the heated air from down below, or lack of it, would also be a very big issue I'm thinking. What seems like a lot of air coming upstairs when it is cold will likely seem to not be much at all when you're trying to heat the upstairs with it.

If it were me? I'd look into some door sweeps and door frame insulation to try and seal the basement off from above. Those pocket doors could should also be examined. Expanding foam can work wonders there. After that, you may not even feel you needed supplemental heat, but if you did, I'd say to park it upstairs and let your sealing/insulation continue to pay dividends. I love a hot stove, like everyone here, but labor expended on heating a leaky space is labor better spent. Make it warm, and keep it warm, I say.

 

[remkel]

I think I would be looking at the upstairs options. Looks like you have a perfect area up there for either a free standing or an insert.

 

[pen]

Many people try to heat from the basement and many people are disappointed in the results. In my case I am one of the lucky ones but if I had a fireplace like that upstairs there'd be an insert in it no questions asked. That would be the primary heat. If later that didn't do as you needed, then I'd consider adding one to the basement to help keep the floors warm. But remember, even in an ideal circumstance a good part of your heat will be lost to the earth unless it gets finished off.

pen

 

[silentbob]

So an insert and a woodburner downstairs?

I have my workbench down there for ski tuning and I'd tie some flies down there if I didn't catch such an awful chill when I do work down there. When I wax skis down in my dungeon (as I like to refer to it) I don't have to wait very long for the wax to harden, but I feel like I have arthritis when I'm done.

 

[silentbob]

I appreciate all the advice and it's not like ignoring everyone--honest.

So what kind of insert does everyone recommend? Also, I'm afraid an insert will make that room unbearably hot, while the rest of the house is comfortable. My house has a weird layout and that fireplace is not a central location by any means. I guess I'm pretty ignorant to inserts and such. Thanks again for all the help.

 

[begreen]

Well, I was thinking only the insert. The low ceiling has me concerned a bit. Insulated floor is going to make it harder for heat to seep up there too. For the ski work I would just use an electric heater when down there.

A nice Jotul or Hampton insert would go with the place, but that would depend on what would fit. We'll need the fireplace opening dimensions plus it's depth to narrow down options. Are there other stove locations that might work that connect with the kitchen/dining area?

That looks like a decent sized (pocket door) opening to the kitchen/dining area. If necessary, a fan placed on the floor right about where that black rack is in the diningroom pointed toward the fireplace room would balance out the heat. Blowing cool air towards the warmth works quite well. A simple table fan running on low speed would work.

 

[silentbob]

Thanks BeGreen.

The fireplace dimensions are:

29.5" H at the opening
34" W at the opening
25" D
27.5" W at the back of the firebox

The floor under the kitchen and dining room are not insulated. The floors under the fireplace room are the only ones insulted in the basement. I imagine if I insulate the rest of the floors it would help?

Here are some other pictures of the house layout. Hopefully, you can see where the fireplace chimney is in relation to the whole house. I'm terrible at describing stuff so hopefully these pictures help.

 

[Jimbob]

So what kind of insert does everyone recommend?

I'd install this one, it would be an easy fit:
http://pacificenergy.net/pacificenergy/super_insert.php

A Summit would just barely fit:
http://pacificenergy.net/pacificenergy/summit_insert.php


+1 on the electric heater in the basement, turned on only when down there.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=44590&cat=1,43456,43465,44590


Upstairs, ceiling fans help move the air around well. They are quiet, cheap, and easy to install, and they'll help keep the floor warm, too.

 

[begreen]

Looks like there have been a few additions over the years. A stove in the core of the house is going to provide the most satisfying results. For this part of the house it looks like the dining room would be the most effective. It could tap into the chimney with a stainless liner in it. However, I'm guessing that would be somewhat disruptive to the room. The living room is another candidate, but it will need a new flue and it appears to be a 2 story + attic run. Is that ok?

So that brings us back to the exercise room. For the fireplace I would look at the Jotul F450, the Hampton HI300, the Hearthstone Clydesdale, and the Pacific Energy Alderlea T5 inserts. These are all medium sized inserts. They won't heat the joint, but they will keep that area cozy. The fan suggestion mentioned in the previous post will make a big difference in evening out the temperatures.

 

[silentbob]

Yeah, part of the house is 1860 and the other is 2003. All done by the previous owner.

There is a ceiling fan in the exercise room. Thanks for all the help. I'm a little bummed about the basement but that's ok.

 

[begreen]

Where is the furnace located? Is it in the new part and is there a higher ceiling there?

 

[Mt Ski Bum]

I appreciate all the advice and it's not like ignoring everyone--honest.

So what kind of insert does everyone recommend? Also, I'm afraid an insert will make that room unbearably hot, while the rest of the house is comfortable. My house has a weird layout and that fireplace is not a central location by any means. I guess I'm pretty ignorant to inserts and such. Thanks again for all the help.

I'd reccommend a flush fitting insert such as the FPX 33 Elite, Avalon Perfect Fit, or Lopi Declaration.

Retains the fireplace look, while having the efficiency of an EPA woodburner. get some fans to help circulate the air through other parts of the house if you're concerned about uneven heating.

EDIT: I believe Quadra Fire makes some flush-fitting inserts as well

 

[sesmith]

I also manage to heat my house fine from an unfinished basement, but not without air flow issues and challenges. Not the most efficient way to go. With a house your size, I'd also take advantage of the fireplace for an insert. I think Blaze King also makes one but may be to large for your application?? If you could also put another smaller stove in the other end of the house (living room?) that'd balance things out but would require yet another chimney. Could you get a prefab all the way up through? For that matter, if you weren't tied into the idea of having to use the existing chimneys and decided to run a new chimney, is there a more central location where a stove would fit?

 

[silentbob]

Where is the furnace located? Is it in the new part and is there a higher ceiling there?

No, the furnace is located in the old area. The addition was built over a crawl space. I assume the original heat source for this house was wood or coal and tied into that chimney.

I just measured the ceiling height, from the cement pad to the floor joists is 75" and to the actual floor is 85". Again, this section is not insulated.

 

[pyper]

There are pockets doors going from the dining room into the room with the workout stuff and cold air just rips through the left side.

I think this is the symptom of your problem, and not your problem.

Cold air does not rise. Not unless it is drawn up. What would cause that? Well there's a hole in your ceiling probably. Or a lot of them. It could be as simple as that big old chimney not having a damper that seals tight. If that's the case, then it's doing it's job, and taking warm air up, and out of the house, which has to be replaced with something, and so it sucks it up out of the basement.

If the chimney does seal tight, then the next place I'd look is your light fixtures. Especially if you have non-insulation-contact can lights. Each of those is equal to a hole a couple inches across. The normal light fixtures in the ceilings of a typical house equal a hole a couple feet across. Sealing all that stuff up will make your house draw less cold air from the basement.

I agree with the other people though -- it looks like that fireplace would be ideal for an insert. Having experienced both the ambiance of an open fire, and the ambiance of a stove with a glass door, I'll take the second any day, especially considering how much more heat you get from so much less wood.

 

[Gator eye]

Looks like a perfect fit for a wood furnace with the duct work running right beside the chimney He could heat is whole house instead of just a few rooms.

Looks like plenty of room for a furnace if you set it on the floor.